Natural Gas Leaks

[hudson144 150]

Again members of the Fire Service encountered a natural gas explosion as they investigated a smell of gas. Over the years many incidents are reminders of the hazards when dealing with gas leaks and often the local Con Ed Emergency responders being Matty Palmer and Jim Feeney preach to us the hazards as emergency responders. The video's are out there of the Maryland incident yesterday. If somebody can post them it would be a great training clip. Recently FDNY had a gas leak that rocked the neighborhood, last year right here in westchester county the Scarsdale FD responded to a leak with a private dwelling which actually found an ignition source and exploded ,extensive damage to the structure as well as a heavy fire condition. Croton- broken gas line to a dwelling with fire. Be safe out there and don't take these calls lightly!

*There is a post on this already,check it out !

Edited May 8, 2009 by hudson144

[50-65 205]

I remember going m/a to a reported gas leak last year. As we arrived, there was the first due engine parked in front of the store. The store had been evacuated and all employees were congregated in an area about 20' in front of the large plate glass windows. And yes, the store was charged with gas.

Remember, people, if we respond to these types of incidents, keep people away from the area and not in direct line of all the shrapnel that will be coming their way. As we approach the structure, I would do so from an angle, preferably keeping something very large and solid between me and all the storefront glass. They got very lucky the other day. If the store in my case had exploded, those civilians would have looked like swiss cheese.

Be safe out there.

[jack10562 414]

This topic is very near and dear to me, my being a recently retired Con Ed gas emergency shift supervisor in Westchester Gas.

I worked with Matty and Jim a long time, and they have really taken the bull by the horns to get the message out to the fire service, on the dangers and the safest way to mitigate the gas and electric hazards faced by emergency responders every day.

If you want them to provide training to your department, they would be more than happy to accommodate you.

Bottom line is don't be complacent. These are not your routine calls. You never know what is in store for you upon arrival.

We only seem to hear about the spectacular disasters, like the recent blast in Queens, that had emergency personnel on the scene investigating when things went dramatically south right in front of them. This can happen at any time, under the right circumstances.

Treat every gas call like it's an imminent disaster, because it could be. Sure, many times it's only a pilot light out on a stove, but then again, it could also be gas coming into the building from outside, from a cracked main with gas migrating through a sewer connection or an underground telephone or electric duct, or along a water service.

Just because you found A source of the odor, it might not always be the ONLY source.

Be safe.

[hudson144 150]

Thanks for the additional info-first hand experience ladies n gentlemen! Direct from a con ed gas supervisor, nobody knows better than these guys!!!

[Guest]

Saturday, May 9, 2009- 6 Firefighters and 1 police officer were injured in an explosion in Providence, R.I. this morning around 1230 hours. PFD companies were responding to a car that crashed into the front of an apartment complex. Firefighters smelled the gas leak when they arrived at the scene of the crash...and just moments after firefighters shut of the gas line something caused an explosion. 1 FF was thrown into the street and others were hurt when debris fell on top of them. Several of the firefighters were treated and released from Rhode Island Hospital...and another FF suffered a head injury in the explosion, and is being treated.

REMINDER:

TREAT ALL reported GAS LEAKS as if THEY WILL BLOW UP.

Follow your FD SOP's without exception.

HERE are some related links:

http://firefighterclosecalls.com/drills/FC...gencies%201.pdf

[Guest]

Everyone is preaching the same thing but what should we do? We already wear our mask and bunker gear, what else is it they (con ed) want us to do? As someone who goes to hundreds of gas leaks each year in apts in nyc, what else should we be doing other than not touching light switches and venting the structure?

I listened to the audio from the maryland blast, I think the boss made the wrong call when he said open the rear door to ventilate, about 3 mins later the place blew, must have brought it back down to the UEL. 5-15% for CH4 if I remember correctly.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

The Upper Level Explosive Limit for Liquified Petroleum Gas (Butane, Propane) is 9.5-8.5% while the Lower Explosive Limit is 2.1-1.9%

http://www.cdc.gov/NIOSH/npg/npgd0372.html

Other than natural and propane gas (CH4) what other gases could leak inside or outside a structure that can explosively combust that one needs to be careful of.

[Guest]

The list of explosive gases is long, but most we would encounter would be H2S (sewer gas) Propane, Natural Gas, in some warmer climates Butane, but that reacts like Methane. We have new Altair MSA meters at work specifically calibrated to Methane which were donated by ConEd, great piece but unfortunately only the 'regular' company's got them, if you are in a Rescue Support Company you get to use your 5 Star or Sirius meter which are calibrated to Pentane, so the LEL is half if its a Nat Gas leak, too many numbers to remember.

[jack10562 414]

The best approach to any gas call is have your meter/tester equipment ready and don't rely only on your nose, although that is a valuable tool in your investigation arsenal. Ventilation of the area and eliminating any ignition sources if gas is present is the second step, after securing the source of the leak, if possible.

Gas that migrates into a building from an outdoor leak can sometimes lose some or all of it's odorant as it passes through the dirt, and therefore you can have a greater percentage of gas in the building than your nose would indicate. Again, your meter/tester is required.

The Maryland officer who ordered the ventilation made the correct call, however there is always the chance for ignition anytime the mixture is within the flammable (explosive) limits. In my opinion, it appears in the video that building went up as it reached the LEL phase, since there was very little flame visible during the explosion. If the mixture was ventilating down from a higher concentration there would have been a significant fireball enveloping the structure upon ignition.

[Guest]

These two recent NG explosions I think are just freak events, a perfect storm if you will. It is one thing if you pull up to a gas leak and get knocked on your rear in the street, but for the old project my pilot light is out what is the precautionary measures we should take? We have the TIF 5000 which can detect anything with Hydrogen in it, and works like a geiger counter but that is rather basic.

I am all for safety but no one is saying what we should be doing different on these runs.

[Guest SQUADco119]

Recently in Croton NY we had the task of responding to a Natural Gas fire next to a Structure. It was my first Natural Gas fire, not my first NG call, I have been on many of those as we all have, leakes outside which were minor but we didnt treat it like that,we played it safe *always*.But this was pretty intense the sound was unbelievable!

A car backed into the gas meter on a house and the electrical meter ripping the gas line off the meter and the electrical meter cuased a spark I believe, in turn cuasing a NG fire right next to the house. The house had minor extension. This call was safer in my eyes unlike other calls we have been on, for example a department in our county Scarsdale and just like the other recent scary incidents had no fire involved , our gas was burning off as it leaked so the gas had no chance of spreading or even migrating into the structure to cuase an explosive level. Still a dangerous incident but not as dangerous in my opinion.

Becuase we have taken classes with Con Ed numeruous times we knew how to deal with this incident, we didnt extinguish the fire, we evacuated the building protected the exposures and waited for Con Ed who had a quik and great manpower response!

The big point is that nobody was hurt and we saved the structure. We waited to enter the building other than to evacuate the residents to begin structural FF operations until Con Ed had the gas shut off! Minor extension was knocked quikly afterwards!

Yes anything can go wrong at anytime with anything especialy NG but it just goes to show you if you train and do what Con Ed says it increases your chances of a non incidental call!

As Con Ed will preach or any Gas company out there will treat every gas emergency as if its at a dangerous level. Use the meters and take advantage of the classes that Con Ed and your local companies offer they are very imformative and beneficial!

Bottom line stay safe and wait for your Gas company before you do anything other than evacuate people! Who cares if the building blows up as long as nobody is in them so be it. If the meter says get out get out. Your Gas company will tell you when its ok to vent the structures!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Does anyone know of any of these gas leak ConEd training classes coming up soon?

[Guest SQUADco119]

No but if i here anything I will post it on here. The way we have had it done was our Batallion cordinator sets it up for us(B- 10).

Our department has had a Gas and Electric class last year as well, presented by Con Ed.

BVFDJC316, Contact(PM) Remember585 on here he is my Asst. Chief he might be able to atleast give you contact info on how to set it up.

[Remember585 815]

Con Edison's Emergency Response Group will provide the training to any group, you just have to contact them. Our FD generally does gas one year, electric the next on a rotation to keep our skill levels up. Last year, Battalion 10 had a group from Con Ed come and review not only the gas emergencies and downed line / pole emergencies, but they went over power plant hazards and fires too. Another training session we took with Con Ed was a use of the command boards they distributed to many agencies, including ours. The Con Ed guys are a wealth of knowledge, don't be naive - call them and let them educate your department before it's too late.

The gas incident Squadco119 mentioned was without a doubt one I won't soon forget. The first arriving Engine stretched two lines and used the deck gun to protect the exposure building. The first water from the deck gun turned to steam when it first hit the eaves, so I credit that crew for doing that. Crews took one line inside to protect them as they evacuated Division 1, a 2nd line protected them and a 3rd line went to Division 2 where they had minor extension.

The other notable gas incident we had recently was in December of 2007. A high voltage line dropped on South Riverside Avenue at Croton Point Avenue. This line "burned" it's way down to the plastic high pressure gas main below, putting nothing more then a 1/8 - 1/4" hole in it, erupting in a fireball and "torch" which at times burned 20-30 feet high. Companies staged at a safe distance, near hydrants, ready to knock down any fire that may have developed, which luckily it did not. We operated one 1 3/4" line briefly to cool down an excavator under the direction of Con Ed. Other then that all we did was secure the scene and standby for the worst.

Over the years we have responded several times to two locations for odors of gas. One location has been determined by Con Ed as nothing more then the Mercaptan venting, no actual gas. The other location was also determined to be just Mercaptan blowing off, however the last call we had was a leak, which was noticeable because the rain was puddling up at the curb box and bubbling. That leak has been fixed and we haven't had to go back to it since (Thankfully!).

Don't treat anything as a routine or blow it off as a "nothing call." Even if it never ignites, gas can suffocate and kill you. Treat every gas call as a leak and every downed wire as live and everyone should go home.

[jack10562 414]

Here is a short video taken of the gas main fire in Croton caused by an overhead primary electric cable that came down.

I could have heated my house for many years on the amount of gas that "leaked"!!!

[nwpfd390 2]

Outside gas investigations can be very dangerous, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the utilities we use are underground, and can easily be effected by another utility. This can be seen a lot when there are water main breaks. Im sure there are a lot of people who can say that they've been on water main break calls and it turns out there was also some kind of gas leak. This is especially important, because water main breaks can cause sink holes. Furthermore, these can easily damage gas mains or electric wires underground. So the water could be electrically charged, as well. Natural gas also could leak through the ground. Natural gas is an odorless gas, however is given a chemical called Mercaptan, that can easily be be abosrbed into the ground, so be careful and dont rely on the "rotten egg" smell. With reagards to ventilating a house with natural gas, keep in mind that you should turn the valve closest to the appliance first, and cut off the electricity to the house. However, sometimes the leak may not be in the residence, but could be entering through an outside leak. Ventilating, may not be the best choice because of the UEL, however I believe that would be Con Ed's call.

[nwpfd390 2]

http://www.chiefmontagna.com/Articles/Gas%20Hazards.htm

[Billy 68]

So if I smell gas outside my house, like a did a couple of years back, Is it best to call 911 or Con Ed? At that time i called Con Ed and they promptly responded and shut off a gas leak outside the house next door. However, I would have to think that FD would respond much quicker and be able to do evacuation if necessary and secure the scene.

[Bnechis 3,961]

So if I smell gas outside my house, like a did aso couple of years back, Is it best to call 911 or Con Ed? At that time i called Con Ed and they promptly responded and shut off a gas leak outside the house next door. However, I would have to think that FD would respond much quicker and be able to do evacuation if necessary and secure the scene.

Faster to call 911. If you call ConEd they call us anyway as their response is often 15 - 20+ minutes.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Ventilating, may not be the best choice because of the UEL, however I believe that would be Con Ed's call.

Technically without venting it will always stay in the UEL. The structure will need to be vented to get it below the LEL and make it safe. The issue is when is the best time to vent, what safe guards should be put in place 1st.

[jack10562 414]

By all means call 911 for an un-located gas leak, unless you actually know it's minor, like a pilot out, or a whiff by an appliance valve or fitting.

ConEd will respond someone ASAP, but depending on the workload it could take up to an hour, or even longer, like during storms, etc.

Venting a structure that has gone above the atmospheric UEL, (15% gas-in-air mixture) gets to be tricky. Now you absolutely must eliminate ALL ignition sources BEFORE venting. Electric, phone, cable TV, anything that could make a spark. If it didn't blow up on the way up, you can bet it will on the way down. You now also have an IDLH oxygen deficient atmosphere, You have to wear a mask.

I was involved with this exact situation a couple of times. Once, on a third-party damage, contractors were pulling a large tree stump with a big excavator and ripped apart a coupling on a 2 inch steel high pressure main and BACKFILLED with the gas blowing. Then they took off! Gas was everywhere, in the sewers, we had elevated readings inside over a dozen houses on either side of the break, the one right next door had over a 70% reading in the crawl space!! Talk about a troubling day.... after all was said and done, we got lucky. It went well, fortunately.

I think they arrested the guy who did the deed, he didn't even notify anyone he hit the main!!!!

[Remember585 815]

What is everyone's rig response to an inside gas leak? Outside gas leak? What are your SOGs for these calls?

[Guest]

What is everyone's rig response to an inside gas leak? Outside gas leak? What are your SOGs for these calls?

An odor of gas outside is a local alarm, single apparatus response. An odor of gas inside a structure is responded to by two engines, a special service, and a battalion chief. (Which was the initial dispatch for the recent Forestville, MD incident)

Edited May 13, 2009 by Slayer61

[Remember585 815]

Come on guys, I know we all respond to these calls so let's help each other learn something!

Outside Investigation - 2 Engines & Rescue

Companies to stage outside of the reported area, take readings in the air, manholes, etc. and buildings if warranted.

Inside Investigation - 3 Engines, Truck, Rescue

Companies investigate the perimeter of the building as well as the interior. For both types of incidents, notification to Con Ed Gas if warranted.

[16fire5 693]

One recomended venting tactic if you are in or above the explosive range (most meters its impossible to know once you reach the UEL) is to went from the top on your way out so hopefully you are out side by the time the area passes through the Explosive range. As said Matty Palmer is great. His cousin BC Orio Palmer was killed LOD on 9/11.

Take these runs for real practice good habits on the minor leaks so when it's for real it's second nature.

Turn on your handlight before you go inside.

Don't turn on lights or ring the door bell.

Leave the TIC on the rig none of them are intrinsically safe.

Wear SCBA in a gas environment.

Get on a hydrant and test it.