Discrimination in the Fire Service

[demps121 39]

This will be interesting!!!!!!!!

Reverse Discrimination Case Could Transform Hiring

April 18, 2009

Connecticut - Inside a burning building, fire doesn't discriminate between Matthew Marcarelli and Gary Tinney. Inside the New Haven Fire Department, however, skin color has put them on opposite sides of a lawsuit that could transform hiring procedures nationwide. This week, the Supreme Court will consider the reverse discrimination claim of Marcarelli and a group of white firefighters. They all passed a promotion exam, but the city threw out the test because no blacks would have been promoted, saying the exam had a "disparate impact" on minorities likely to violate the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Besides affecting how race can be considered in filling government and perhaps even private jobs, the dispute also addresses broader questions about racial progress: Do minorities and women still need legal protection from discrimination, or do the monumental civil rights laws that created a more equal nation now cause more harm than good?

Also, beneath the specific details of the firefighters' lawsuit lies an uncomfortable truth: On most standardized tests, regardless of the subject, blacks score lower than whites.

Reconciling that reality with efforts to ensure "justice for all" remains a work in progress - one that will be molded by the Supreme Court.

Written by Associated Press

Link to Full Article

Edited April 19, 2009 by Chris192
Compliance with copyright policy, link to full article added.

[demps121 39]

This will be interesting!!!!!!!!

Written by Associated Press

Link to Full Article

This will be in court this week. Could change the career fire service big time.

[yfd910 8]

This will be in court this week. Could change the career fire service big time.

This makes me sick.........

[Guest]

http://www.newhaven20.com/

Keep your heads up Brother's!

[demps121 39]

I am surprised no discussion?

[demps121 39]

This may have an effect on Firefighter exams of towns and villages, Maybe they will not be able to give special treatment to residents, who knows, the county list comes out and that is what every municipality works from.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This may have an effect on Firefighter exams of towns and villages, Maybe they will not be able to give special treatment to residents, who knows, the county list comes out and that is what every municipality works from.

I don't know if it will effect the towns & villages, but if the court finds in favor of the firefighters it will most likely change the rules for hiring in Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains & Yonkers. Since these 4 depts are covered under federal court decrees.

The reason no ones commenting is it does not make a difference what anyone here has to say. All that will matter is what the court ends up saying. Either way there will be a lot of discusion then.

[hudson144 150]

The Vulcan decree has been well satisfied in MV, when the numbers are crunched the white male is the minority both on the firefighter level and as well as within the community. City hall has not been monitoring the decree for years (surprised?) and according to the decree it can be disolved. But-it all depends on who is doing the math here. My feeling is that even with the New Haven case going on the Decree is as good as gone! Some feel that the job should reflect the makeup of the community? Is that for all communitys? If so many depts. would not have to hire minoritys and IMO thats not fair. The saga goes on! GOOD LUCK NH 20!

* I think in fairness to all involved the Vulcan Decree should be brought back to the Federal Courts to be reviewed to make sure that the decree is being followed correctly without any questions for all involved.It might clear up alot of bad information out there and mend feelings for all!

Edited April 20, 2009 by hudson144

[FirNaTine 370]

I wish the Brothers from Ct. and all others who have had their lives destroyed by this assinine Decree the best of luck. It's about time it was overturned and tossed out the window. It's just another Social Experiment of the Bleeding Heart Liberals gone wrong. It truly destroyed the "Brotherhood" of the Fire Service.

[Guest Smoke Showing]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/White...Settlement.html

this story is also good take a look

[FFLieu 70]

This is such BS and quite frankly, I am sick and tired of groups like the Vulcan Society for one, crying foul every single time a department initiates the hiring process. There is no discrimination in testing; it just so happens that, statistically speaking, more whites take FD entrance exams than minorities. It's not like departments go around saying that those groups cannot apply; they follow the rules regarding exam announcements as well as exam administration and exam composition. Just because a majority of the applicant pool happens to be of a particular makeup does not necessarily mean that the examining department precludes from applying those applicants who are not statistically equally represented in the pool of eligibles. (Taking the logic of the topic at hand, does this mean that women's groups have a valid discrimination claim since most of the FD applicants nationwide are male, or is this issue simply superficially based on skin color since it seems to be the topic du jour as of late?) As we discussed in a prior thread, my opinion is that race (or gender) doesn't belong anywhere in the application process, whether it's for initial application or for advancement. Whatever happened to hiring or promoting the right individual for the job?

[Guest]

When you grow up with fires and being carried down the smokey stairs of your apt building as a child, the first thing that pops in to your head is not being a fireman.

[FirNaTine 370]

What's the racial makeup of the NBA? I see Lawsuit!

[hudson144 150]

What is even more disturbing is when you study and are in a position to be promoted and you find out that your promotion was upheld because of a letter submitted to the mayor has no merit and to make it even worse is that the letter submitted had a forged signature of the president of that above mentioned society and may have been drafted by a senior fire official of the department that you work for! Imagine that?A person in the position of authority forging a letter that denied your promotion! Things will be getting very interesting soon.

[gss131 212]

For more information go to: www.newhaven20.com

[Guest metalcop80]

What exactly is "reverse" discrimination? I thought that discrimination was the act of treating someone differently or unfairly based on a person's color, sex, religion, etc. Since when did discrimination become for blacks only? Race dicsrimination is wrong no matter what color the offended or wronged person is so let's not make this a one way street.

[JimmyPFD 11]

This is a touchy subject and looks to come up regularly over the years. You can't please everyone. Giving extra credit based on race, color, ethnicity, gender, whatever is never going to be fair to the individuals who are not given the same. Speaking to a lawyer a moment ago; the constitutional amendment does give special consideration and protection designed to insure that discrimination in testing does not occur. Legally, this is only for and can be applied to the specific group, (so Eskimos are screwed).

One might argue that a specific group has an advantage. Right or wrong it sucks for; and is not just for the individual that gets passed over in spite of their work, effort and qualifications.

Edited April 21, 2009 by JimmyPFD

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

Discrimination rears it's ugly head everywhere in life. Is filing a lawsuit the answer? Is giving up the answer? That is for everyone to decide on their own. Is it really worth it? I hope someone could answer these questions for me.

[gss131 212]

Yeah,I think if you give up a year of your life studying,(the guys that have studied know what I am talking about),only to be told that because another "group" didn't fare as well , that the results would be thrown out and you get to do it all over again,then hell yeah its worth fighting for.Good Luck to the brothers from NH.

[hudson144 150]

Yeah,I think if you give up a year of your life studying,(the guys that have studied know what I am talking about),only to be told that because another "group" didn't fare as well , that the results would be thrown out and you get to do it all over again,then hell yeah its worth fighting for.Good Luck to the brothers from NH.[/quot

We will see by july the outcome!

Edited April 21, 2009 by hudson144

[Guest Smoke Showing]

Today they present their case to the US Supreme Court. Good luck guys!!!!

[Guest]

Good luck guys. Let's hope common sense prevails...

[SageVigiles 1,194]

WTNH News Channel 8's website has video of the events going on outside the courtroom. Nothing going on yet, but they are setup.

www.wtnh.com

[SageVigiles 1,194]

According to News Channel 8, the case has been presented to the Supreme Court, no word on when the Court will rule.

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

Listen you have to think if it is worth it in the long run. People fight, they win and down the road you have a bulls eye on your back because they are lookin to get you on something other than what you beat them on. Do I sound like I speak from experience? Best bet, give up, go with the flow and keep the heat off of you.

[gss131 212]

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/04...67236435286.txt

ruling expected by June as for the last poster,,,,,like you said in your last post,,personal decision,but rolling over wouldn't be my choice,they'll just keep kicking you.

Edited April 22, 2009 by jack10562
fixed link

[lad12derff 283]

Listen you have to think if it is worth it in the long run. People fight, they win and down the road you have a bulls eye on your back because they are lookin to get you on something other than what you beat them on. Do I sound like I speak from experience? Best bet, give up, go with the flow and keep the heat off of you.

Great advice, wish you were on my side.

[hudson144 150]

Give up? Go with the flow? Thats why so many guys are in the situation that myself and others are in! Nobody has the ***** to fight and when that happens we all see the outcome! I,m sorry Mcfuz i'm not giving up to nobody! If you feel you are right or have been dealt a wrong deal then stand up for yourself and fight! Thats why the NH20 situation is so important,if it wasn't for these guys civil service might not ever have an equal playing field. The out come will not be till june however the eyes of the nation have been on this case mainly because it has all been wrong! Hats off to them,the Buffalo 13, the Chicago 6 and yes maybe myself being the Mount Vernon 1 ! lol, jjc

[JM15 386]

How would this decision effect hiring practices?

[gss131 212]

It would put to question the current power of the consent decree.