Conflict of interest?

[ex-commish 490]

In a fire department ( volunteer) where you have a fire company ( or companies) and you have a fire district is it considered a conflict of interest when a fire commissioner is also a fire company officer such as president or vice president? Just curious on what the thoughts are.

[markmets415 524]

Excellent point, the only thing a commissioner cannot hold is Chief or 1st Asst. Chief, Deputy or whatever title one my use for the second in line. All other titles are up for grabs. Is it in my opinion a conflict if this person sits on both the board of fire commissioners and the board of directors of the company I would say YES, but the state law has no such provision as far as I know. We currently have this very situation in my district.

[DOC22 1]

I know of a Department where this is the case. And as it turns out, it is a good thing, as the Vice President is a Commissioner and does an EXCELLENT job in both capacities, and just as well at maintaining excellent segragation between the two. As far as a legal conflict of interest, no, he can be VP, but he can NOT go for president and retain his seat on the Board of Commissioners. This has already been investigated.

[ja3kfd 34]

Doc

Where is this located in State Law?

I have been reveiwing state law on and off for constitution and by laws of my department and i have not seen that anywhere.

if you have it can you send it to me?

[Geppetto 31]

The president, treasurer or secretary of a volunteer fire company of a fire district may also serve the same fire district as a fire district commissioner.

19 Op.State Compt. 7, 1963.

[16fire5 693]

I don't believe they are laws per say they are opinions of the Attorney General or Comptroller. It is a conflict of interest for a career firefighter of a district to be a fire commisionser but a volunteer firefighter in allowed to be a commisioner in the district. Some will say this is an apples to oranges comparison but I completely disagree. The reasoning behind the opinion the career firefighter can't be a commisioner is because he is paying himself or being his own boss. I would argue that if the volunteers recieve LOSAP, tax breaks, or whatever other types of compensation the same should hold true for the commisioners.

Edited April 16, 2009 by 16fire5

[citystation1848 15]

It should be, it's like assigning a commissioner to be a rescue squad captain, or other squad captain. Commissioners, should be commissioners, nothing else. They can be firefighters or EMT"s or Fire Police.

[Mofire24 27]

You have to check the New York State General Municipal Law & the New York State Fire Service Law they both have alot of info and should be able to answer your questions.

The 2009 NYS Fire Service law is coming out at the end of the month and you can find it online through the New York State assembly website

[billwiegelman 1]

its a conflict of interest for any volunteer to also be a commissioner

[Bnechis 3,961]

Is it a conflict of interest when a fire commissioner places his/her hand on a bible and swears to do whats in the best interest of the community then does not?

[jzog 0]

its a conflict of interest for any volunteer to also be a commissioner

Are you suggesting that all commissioners should be non volunteers?

Our board is 3 FD members and 2 non, good mix I think- some that know what its about and some to ask why.

[gamewell45 258]

Is it a conflict of interest when a fire commissioner places his/her hand on a bible and swears to do whats in the best interest of the community then does not?

No that's a sin.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember a case where a NYPD Officer could not run for a spot on the Board in his hometown FD, something written in the NYPD...anyone know of anything like this?

[ex-commish 490]

its a conflict of interest for any volunteer to also be a commissioner

I don't see why this would be a conflict if the volunteer was just a firefighter or emt. I question in a situation where you have decision making authority such as a company president or vice president that it may be a conflict when you have to make decisions as a commissioner.

[helicopper 1,050]

It is a conflict of interest for a career firefighter of a district to be a fire commisionser but a volunteer firefighter in allowed to be a commisioner in the district. The reasoning behind the opinion the career firefighter can't be a commisioner is because he is paying himself or being his own boss.

Wouldn't the commissioner who is also a volunteer firefighter also be his own boss? How is that not a conflict of interest? How does the chief discipline the FF who is his commissioner?

[markmets415 524]

Wouldn't the commissioner who is also a volunteer firefighter also be his own boss? How is that not a conflict of interest? How does the chief discipline the FF who is his commissioner?

good point Chris but it happens every day, all of our commissioners are in our fire company, with one also on the board of directors

[crcocr1 8]

I don't believe they are laws per say they are opinions of the Attorney General or Comptroller. It is a conflict of interest for a career firefighter of a district to be a fire commisionser but a volunteer firefighter in allowed to be a commisioner in the district. Some will say this is an apples to oranges comparison but I completely disagree. The reasoning behind the opinion the career firefighter can't be a commisioner is because he is paying himself or being his own boss. I would argue that if the volunteers recieve LOSAP, tax breaks, or whatever other types of compensation the same should hold true for the commisioners.

McKinney's Town Law § 174 "....A person shall not hold the office of fire district commissioner and the office of chief or assistant chief of the fire department of the fire district at the same time."

________________________________________________________________________________

________________

In response to another post:

To name just a few, statutes applicable to volunteer fire companies, district and departments include:

General Municipal Law

General City Law

Town Law

Village Law

Volunteer Fire Benefit Law

Volunteer Ambulance Workers Benefit Law

There also are cases/advisory opinions interpreting the statutes that, depending on the situation, may be more instructive than the statute itself.

There is no such thing as the NY Fire Service Law. I believe it is a book that compiles many of the relevant statutes.

Edited April 17, 2009 by crcocr1

[xchief2x 79]

Barry- Regarding your post, that isn't a conflict of interest, that's just good old fashioned politics! LOL

[markmets415 524]

McKinney's Town Law § 174 "....A person shall not hold the office of fire district commissioner and the office of chief or assistant chief of the fire department of the fire district at the same time."

As I stated in the 2nd post, thanks for adding the law section, I was actually looking through the Town law this morning regarding the % allowed for non-resident members of a company/department which cannot exceed 45%.

[64FFMJK 21]

so let me see if I undestand some of your opinions. You would rather have a person with little to no understanding of the duties and opperations of your job deciding what equipment, aperatius, PPE, and training is appropriate for a fire department??? I would rather see it be a requierment to be a volunteer or past volunteer so they know what they are doing and how it will impact the operations of the firefighters.

[crcocr1 8]

I believe this thread began as a question regarding whether a fire commissioner in a volunteer fire company could serve as an officer, civil or firematic, according to the state's conflict of interest laws; not whether one agrees with the law. I think there are sound arguments to be made on both sides of the fence; but will leave that to someone with more time on their hands today...

[helicopper 1,050]

so let me see if I undestand some of your opinions. You would rather have a person with little to no understanding of the duties and opperations of your job deciding what equipment, aperatius, PPE, and training is appropriate for a fire department??? I would rather see it be a requierment to be a volunteer or past volunteer so they know what they are doing and how it will impact the operations of the firefighters.

Most hospitals have Presidents and/or CEO's who are not physicians. Airline CEO's are (in most cases) not pilots. They make all the above decisions you describe with the input of those who'll be using the equipment but without any of the biases that a FF would have. They are arguably more objective in their decision making process.

[xchief2x 79]

We are a Village owned Fire Department therefore we don't have commissioners, all the board members are not firefighters, once in a while we may get a member to get elected to the village board but that is rare. In my experience as Chief I found that as long as you do your homework make your presentation and justify it, they will support you. Maybe we are one of the lucky few departments with a village board that for the most part supports us.