For the true Ladder Co., who carries hose?

[JohnnyOV 2]

Browsing www.vententersearch.com, there is a new article out today about "canceling" the engine because the truck can handle.

http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=473

Apparently FDNY TL79 carries one length of 2 1/2 with a 2 1/2 hydrant gate and a 2 1/2 shut off and stacked tip arrangement. There is additional 2 1/2 and 1 3/4 on the rig for long stretches.

Does any ladder co. around our area, without being a quint or one that has a pump on it, carry any length of hose on its truck? Like it was stated in the article, I know I would personally hate to get caught with my pants down returning from a run and spotting a car fire or something like that, and sitting there twiddling my thumbs, trying to explain to the owner that "oh, this truck doesnt carry water."

[Guest]

I saw that too, and think its a real good idea. Our truck carries a 25' section of 4", about 6 feet of 3", but nothing that we could use to put water on something, only to hook in our ladder pipe to a pumper.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

We carry 100' of 3.5 for our ladder pipe & a few rolled lenghts of 1 3/4 & 2 1/2 o our rig. Never seen it used or heard of any one using it though.

[abaduck 123]

Do apartment packs count?

[IzzyEng4 427]

This would be okay only if you know how well the pressure is from your hydrants or assuming they are not damaged / plugged up, ect. Sorry but not having a pump and / or water on a truck and everything starts going to the brown stuff on the osculating & rotating metal cooling device.

"Cancel the engine, the truck can handle"

3 minutes later:

"Ummm, start the engine back here, we can't handle. the car /trash fire extended to the structure."

It may work in some areas but and yes is out of the box, but the days of hooking up directly to a hydrant to try an battle a blaze are gone. That is why triple combinations and quints were invented.

[NJMedic 96]

Can you imagine the storm that would happen if the Ladder cancelled the Engine and they lost control of the fire. I doubt FDNY is going to let that pass. That being said I wouldn't doubt they have attack hose on the apparatus. I know a couple of ESU trucks that "I've heard" have hose and nozzles on them. Heck even our EMS special ops truck has hose, nozzle, and hydrant wrench.....but only for gross decon .

On the other hand can you imagine if the bean counters heard of this. "You mean with can have one apparatus that can cover the work traditionally done by two units, cool"

Edited April 3, 2009 by NJMedic

[v85 212]

Warwick's Truck has a 2000 GPM pump on it and carries a hydrant pack and assorted lengths of hose. I'm not sure exactly what though

[bmfd231 3]

We carry 300' of 5" storz attack for our ladder pipe and 200' of 3" We also carry a variety of adapters down from the 5" storz and different appliances to attach multiple hoses of various sizes.

[Guest Rogue Rescue]

Every vehicle in our fleet including rescues and aerials have a nozzle, a few lengths of hose and a standpipe (which is a hydrant that we screw into the ground under man holes in oz)

[TL2L31 8]

Port chester Ladder 31 and Tower Ladder 2 are pre-piped without a pump. We have 7 engines so we dont have a need for a pump on either rig.

[ny10570 745]

This isn't about the pump or supply hose. In areas where hydrants are plentiful, who carries a few lengths of attack line and a knob for those few occasions where you might be stuck twiddling your thumbs at a car fire or rubbish fire waiting for the engine? This wouldn't be for initializing an attack on a structure fire, merely attempting to extinguish a fire before it could grow or spread to a structure. Do a little more than dump 10 gallons of water from the can in futility.

[Guest BFD196]

We don't carry any hose on our truck and probably never will. If we come up on something we'll use cans until the engine gets there. One think I was always taught was that a 2.5 gallon can, can accomplish a lot. Our rescue was on the road the other day taking some pictures for a size up drill and was first to arrive at a car fire, engine compartment going pretty good. They held it in check without a problem during the extra minute it took us to get there with the engine.

[FFPCogs 863]

Anyone who's ever worked at a large construction site or been to a city dump in a hydranted area knows that hooking a couple of hundred feet of 1 3/4" handline to a hydrant (used to keep dust down and as a safety measure), is common practice. I can see where having a couple of hundred feet of handline on a truck co. for use in dealing with nuisance/car fires could be useful in an urban setting where there's a hydrant on every corner. Once off the commercial/industrial hydrant grid though it becomes more and more worthless as the hydrants get farther apart. I chalk this up to a company being flexible. They saw a need and worked a simple solution to fill it. Sadly it seems alot of what was once a hallmark of the fire service i.e. that flexibilty and simple ingenuity, is being lost in today's "high tech" world.

Just my $.02

Stay Safe

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

This would be okay only if you know how well the pressure is from your hydrants or assuming they are not damaged / plugged up, ect. Sorry but not having a pump and / or water on a truck and everything starts going to the brown stuff on the osculating & rotating metal cooling device.

"Cancel the engine, the truck can handle"

3 minutes later:

"Ummm, start the engine back here, we can't handle. the car /trash fire extended to the structure."

It may work in some areas but and yes is out of the box, but the days of hooking up directly to a hydrant to try an battle a blaze are gone. That is why triple combinations and quints were invented.

Spoken like a true engine jockey Joe.....

[Guest]

It may work in some areas but and yes is out of the box, but the days of hooking up directly to a hydrant to try an battle a blaze are gone. That is why triple combinations and quints were invented.

I only wish I could say I haven't seen it done.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Spoken like a true engine jockey Joe.....

YEPPERS!!! LOL

Are you still mad at me for mistaking your helmet crown's red paint job for fire below me????

[Guest FFNick]

Some years ago I saw a Truck Co. on Gun Hill Rd in the Bronx fighting a car fire with an open butt hose connected to a hydrant. It wasn't pretty, but they got it done.

[Guest FFNick]

...I know I would personally hate to get caught with my pants down returning from a run and spotting a car fire or something like that, and sitting there twiddling my thumbs, trying to explain to the owner that "oh, this truck doesnt carry water."

There are other things that can be done without putting out the fire. As mentioned, use a can, remove any valuables/personal items if possible. It's a car fire. Most car fires of any significance are a total loss anyway.

[FFPCogs 863]

YEPPERS!!! LOL

Are you still mad at me for mistaking your helmet crown's red paint job for fire below me????

Nah. I know you engines guys can't help playing with your hoses and shooting early....

Cogs

[JohnnyOV 2]

There are other things that can be done without putting out the fire. As mentioned, use a can, remove any valuables/personal items if possible. It's a car fire. Most car fires of any significance are a total loss anyway.

I agree with that somewhat, but if I don't have the protection of a hose line, I'm not going to approach the car, there is just no point in me getting injured from tires/bumpers/ect blowing up on me.

But its just the public perception that we are just standing around doing nothing because "We are supposed to put water on the fire," that would suck. I know if I was Joe Public and had no idea about about ladders/engines, I would be furious if the firemen were just "standing around" letting my car burn.

[791075 34]

We don't carry any hose on our truck and probably never will. If we come up on something we'll use cans until the engine gets there. One think I was always taught was that a 2.5 gallon can, can accomplish a lot. Our rescue was on the road the other day taking some pictures for a size up drill and was first to arrive at a car fire, engine compartment going pretty good. They held it in check without a problem during the extra minute it took us to get there with the engine.

I agree. truck CO's do truck work and engine CO's do engine work. If you want to put water on the fire - transfer across the floor to the engine. There's plenty that a truck co. can do with a can until an engine co. arrives. Why tie up a truck co. stretching hose and making hydrants?

[Guest]

Good Point 791075 you can hold a car fire pretty well with some cans until the closest engine co. responds.

[Guest FFNick]

I agree with that somewhat, but if I don't have the protection of a hose line, I'm not going to approach the car, there is just no point in me getting injured from tires/bumpers/ect blowing up on me.

But its just the public perception that we are just standing around doing nothing because "We are supposed to put water on the fire," that would suck. I know if I was Joe Public and had no idea about about ladders/engines, I would be furious if the firemen were just "standing around" letting my car burn.

I'm not saying to do it on a fully involved car fire, but if the fire is confined to the engine compartment at the time, there is no reason not to take a look in the passenger compartment, secure whatever might be of value if possible. That will go a long way towards preserving any public perception you may be concerned with in my opinion.

[16fire5 693]

I've seen ESU with a line stretched off the hydrant for the RMP on fire. What really wasn't pretty was half a dozzen ESU officers inability to open the hood.

[Guest SQUADco119]

Ahh you truckies, just face it without us water weasels you just aint squat. Or should I say squirt(water)LOL. No matter what you do the engine guys always make the fire go out. Your always up on the roof looking in some kind of hole watching and learning or looking in some window you just broke and again watching and learning. You say your venting for us but your really just trying to learn something- How does that fire go out when all is we do is watch? We crawl around inside making a save once in awhile and if we come upon fire will try to put it out with water from the can but it never seems to work 100%. What do those engine guys use boss, it must be magical water!

On a serious note without truck companies engine guys arent squat and withouts us engine guys truckies arent squat! Sorry I couldnt resist Lads and Gals, whos gonna be the first truckie to chop my head off.

Oh and another thing who cares what the general public thinks of us we always get a bad rap even when we peform our best as a well oiled machine! As long as thier is no lives lost or hurt which is a truckies main concern and they got a can to spray a little water iam sure thats good enough for a days work, plus any truck I know has more than one can. Nor do I see a problem with ladder guys imprivising(Ex. hooking a hose to a hyrdrant ) thats what this JOB calls for sometimes, us engine guys do truckie work sometimes. As long as the JOB gets done thats all that matters!

I do both in my department as iam trained in both and they are just as important and as fun as the other. Iam a water weasel at heart though!

Quints are okay, it all depends on how your department works and what works best for your department. But make sure if you have a quint that your have two operators, one for the pump and the other for the turn table, to have one guy do both is too much, not saying you cant do it but its to demanding I think. Plus truckies pumping? Would you want that fellow engine peeps while your at the end of the knob, I think not LOL!

Oh its not our fualt(us engine peeps) that truckies just want to be like us, hey can you blame them!???????

So bottom line is I think its great that some truck companies are keeping some hose on the rig not just for hooking into an engine. After all truckies know how to put water on a fire, call the engine LOL Iam just kidding they were tuaght this in the academy, just as engine crews in the academy are tuaght search for the simple reason we all know is that we dont usually know what we will be assigned to as a FF! Good topic.

[Remember585 815]

I've seen ESU with a line stretched off the hydrant for the RMP on fire. What really wasn't pretty was half a dozzen ESU officers inability to open the hood.

That's because it's hard as hell to open anything with donut jelly all over your hands!!!!

Just Kidding Cops..... it's all in love and respect for you.

There was a photo, I think on Steve Spak's site, of a Truck Company that opened a door then opened a hydrant to control a vehicle fire until the arrival of the Engine Co. I'm going to try and find it.

[xchief2x 79]

this old cop's (now retired) salary fed you pretty well for a long time!

[x129K 1,393]

Not for nothing, but everyone brings up car fires...UNLESS it is an MVA with a person inside AND the car on fire............it's "JUST a car....."

QTIP

[791075 34]

Ahh you truckies, just face it without us water weasels you just aint squat. Or should I say squirt(water)LOL. No matter what you do the engine guys always make the fire go out. Your always up on the roof looking in some kind of hole watching and learning or looking in some window you just broke and again watching and learning. You say your venting for us but your really just trying to learn something- How does that fire go out when all is we do is watch? We crawl around inside making a save once in awhile and if we come upon fire will try to put it out with water from the can but it never seems to work 100%. What do those engine guys use boss, it must be magical water!

On a serious note without truck companies engine guys arent squat and withouts us engine guys truckies arent squat! Sorry I couldnt resist Lads and Gals, whos gonna be the first truckie to chop my head off.

Oh and another thing who cares what the general public thinks of us we always get a bad rap even when we peform our best as a well oiled machine! As long as thier is no lives lost or hurt which is a truckies main concern and they got a can to spray a little water iam sure thats good enough for a days work, plus any truck I know has more than one can. Nor do I see a problem with ladder guys imprivising(Ex. hooking a hose to a hyrdrant ) thats what this JOB calls for sometimes, us engine guys do truckie work sometimes. As long as the JOB gets done thats all that matters!

I do both in my department as iam trained in both and they are just as important and as fun as the other. Iam a water weasel at heart though!

Quints are okay, it all depends on how your department works and what works best for your department. But make sure if you have a quint that your have two operators, one for the pump and the other for the turn table, to have one guy do both is too much, not saying you cant do it but its to demanding I think. Plus truckies pumping? Would you want that fellow engine peeps while your at the end of the knob, I think not LOL!

Oh its not our fualt(us engine peeps) that truckies just want to be like us, hey can you blame them!???????

So bottom line is I think its great that some truck companies are keeping some hose on the rig not just for hooking into an engine. After all truckies know how to put water on a fire, call the engine LOL Iam just kidding they were tuaght this in the academy, just as engine crews in the academy are tuaght search for the simple reason we all know is that we dont usually know what we will be assigned to as a FF! Good topic.

Good post, however, I am not comfortable with idea of involving a truck in what is a basic engine function.....extinquishment. In most FD's Trucks and Truckies are at a premium, with Engine CO's almost always outnumbering them. Keeping a truck involved in an " engine co." operation is putting most departments in a little bit of a tough spot. If an incident should arise with the need for immediate truck response (structure fire, rescue...) it would possibly lead to trouble. Just a thought.

[xchief2x 79]

as x129k said it's just a car. If the car is unoccupied and not endagering lives or other real property why then do we respond lights & siren? Has anyone ever seen that video 2nd due at a car fire?