Pressed Tin Ceilings

[x129K 1,393]

Something I see an awful lot of, but have yet to encounter in a firefighting situation.

So...until that day - let's hear your info, tips, and tricks....your encounters with pressed tin...

Pics would be helpful too.

Thanks.

[PoqFFEMT 6]

We had a fire in a kitchen not long ago that had the ceiling covered in them tin tiles. We resorted to a pitchfork and a forestry rake to pull them from the ceiling. Our pike poles did nothing put poked a hole and not much more. Could not get enough of a swing to set the hook through the tin and the wooden lathe above. So the fork and rake were used to pull all the tin from the ceiling, then we used the pike poles between the lathe and pulled it down.

Edited March 16, 2009 by PoqFFEMT

[Guest alsfirefighter]

They are a b****.... I was taught by a mentor of mine and have had ok luck with since that time...is to look for a seam or an area with a protrusion like a light or a pipe and start with the seam. I prefer the steel hook then the traditional pike because of its sharp point makes it more difficult. If you get lucky you may be able to pull down large sections of it.

I can tell you this from doing some preplanning of buildings in my downtown area when their use has changed...those ceilings are worth big bucks and many of them spend top dollar to restore them.

[abaduck 123]

We carry a steel hook allegedly specially-made for pulling tin ceilings. No idea if it's any good, I've yet to see it used in anger (and am in no hurry to have that change!)

[JFLYNN 681]

They are a b****.... I was taught by a mentor of mine and have had ok luck with since that time...is to look for a seam or an area with a protrusion like a light or a pipe and start with the seam. I prefer the steel hook then the traditional pike because of its sharp point makes it more difficult. If you get lucky you may be able to pull down large sections of it.

You are exactly right and also right when you say "if you get lucky"...trying to start at a seam or a pipe opening sometimes works. Also, try to have two or three guys a couple of feet apart from each other work in unison so you can attempt to dislodge a whole sheet and not just make those very frustrating small tears. Also, try to get a large area open before you open up the nozzle- Engine guys have a tendency to squirt water as soon as they see a hint of fire, which creates steam and poor visibility. If you have some visibility from floor to ceiling when you start pulling, try to get as much pulled as you can before you start spraying water because once you can't see what you're doing with these ceilings you'll never get them open.

Also, you can try flipping your hook around to start and banging up with the bottom (handle) a bit to see if you can bend (as opposed to tear) the tin to open up a purchase point at the seam, and then flip the hook back around and begin pulling.

However, as an IC, once you realize you have in the cockloft in a building with tin ceilings, call for more help (greater alarms)- you're gonna need it. The term "surround and drown" comes to mind...

Last, and I'm not actually being a wise a**- one time you really wnat to have your SCBA waist straps done up right is when you're pulling ceilings. Get the weight on your waist and loosen up your shoulder straps a bit so you can work.

I can tell you this from doing some preplanning of buildings in my downtown area when their use has changed...those ceilings are worth big bucks and many of them spend top dollar to restore them.

Funny thing is that although these ceilings cause us so much problems, they were actually designed to prevent fire from entering the cockloft.

Edited March 16, 2009 by moosecfd368
member request to fix quotes

[x129K 1,393]

EXCELLENT information by 2 of the many guys I was hoping would respond to this...THANK YOU!

[firemoose827 324]

Would somebody please fix my last post- I'm a technologically challenged and most of my reply is buried in the original post.

Thanks.

Youre all set Chief, I fixed it for you.

Excellent points about the tin ceilings. I have a lot of these buildings in my area, older houses with the intricate style tin ceilings on plywood, over plaster and lathe, over another layer of plaster...makes for a fun time getting through LAYERS of ceiling because the owner was too cheap and lazy to remove the old layer and put up the new one. Instead, he just put up the new ceiling directly over the old.

I like the tip about using the handle end of the pike to dent in the tin and get a purchase, good stuff. Thanks.

[WCDES-FTA 6]

I know of a tool called an "Eckert hook". Used by the FDNY truck companies-(I believe mostly the mid-town trucks ?)- to open up HVAC ducts, exhaust systems, and metal ceilings. It looks like a hawks bill, sharpened on top to push up into the material, and teeth on the bottom edge to cut as you pull down. I have used one in training and with a little practice, it is a very useful tool. Firehooks has it listed in their latest catalog.

[x129K 1,393]

I know of a tool called an "Eckert hook". Used by the FDNY truck companies-(I believe mostly the mid-town trucks ?)- to open up HVAC ducts, exhaust systems, and metal ceilings. It looks like a hawks bill, sharpened on top to push up into the material, and teeth on the bottom edge to cut as you pull down. I have used one in training and with a little practice, it is a very useful tool. Firehooks has it listed in their latest catalog.

Nice info!

ECKERT HOOK ~ The pride of the mid-town (NYC) trucks. Used to open tin ducts, air conditioning systems, and complex metal hoods found in restaurants. Its sharpened edge serves to penetrate tin on the push stroke while the six sharpened teeth on the underside complete the cut on the pull stroke. Can be used conventionally in the removal of lathe and plaster.

Available in the following sizes: 4', 5', 6', 8', 10', 12', 14' ... 32", 40", 4' (with D-handle)

[batt2 145]

Another issue is when those tin ceilings are found in occupancies with higher ceilings. Longer hooks may work for other ceiling finish materials but for tin ceilings over 10 feet it is difficult if not impossible to get the leverage needed to remove the tin.

I remember a fire in the rear of a laundromat with extension into the void above. There was little visibility and ceilings well over 10 feet high. Companies were venting the roof---Remember, don't open up such a void without venting above or backdraft may occur!-- but inside crews were not able to make sufficiently quick progress pulling the ceiling while the engine crews were going after the seat of the fire. Fire quickly traveled through the space and resulted in the necessity of changing to an outside attack via Tower Ladder's stream.

Beware of fire travel above cutting off your egress when you go deep into an occupancy to pull ceilings and especially tin ceilings since they take more time.

Edited March 16, 2009 by batt2

[mfire 2]

I had the fortune or misfortune of pulling a large tin ceiling about 10 feet in hieight. It was not easy. We had our haligan hooks and just looked for a seam and pulled away. It is much better if you have two guys with hooks pulling on the same seam and in the same direction. The tin seemed to come down a little better than having the two FF work in seperate areas. It was not easy, but the job got done. Not bad to do it once in a while as long as every job does not have tin ceilings.

[firecapt32 282]

Heres another thing to remember--years ago they tried to hide the tin ceilings by useing drop ceilings--so the tin might be hiding up there---you gotta look. Make sure if your out on BI or any other inspections--take a look at whats above you--dont get caught when its too late. Somtimes its just grunt work to do the right job. every one is right-- look for a seem -- find a soft spot-- use your tools.

on another note tomorrow is St Paddys day for all of you going into the city for the best parade in the world be carefull. march like someone is watching you cause they are, be conscience of your comsumption of liquids for the day. Be happy be safe be Irish even if its only for the day.

[markmets415 524]

Dan another great topic, thanks for all the advice/tactics that have been offered.

here is a link to an interactive tin ceiling site, nothing special just shows the different types

http://www.tinceiling.com/interactive/iceiling.htm