Pressure Regulating Valves in Standpipe Systems

[Guest DG795]

For Dept's that operate with standpipe systems, have you ever used a standpipe that includes pressure regulating valves? if so, do you feel they are a help or hindrance in firefighting operations? Does the design used in the system permit readjustment easily?

For anyone unfamiliar with these devices, they are put into systems to put a maximum allowable pressure on the standpipe. in 1991, The Philadelphia Fire Department lost 3 members in a fire in a building(1 Meridian Plaza) in which these valves were used in. Engine Co's were getting a total of 40 PSI into an automatic nozzle, because of mis-installed pressure regulating valves. 5 inch hose was stretched 22 stories high (thats right, 5 inch LDH, 22 stories up) in order to supply lines. after over 6 hours, a sprinkler contractor was able to properly adjust the valves, and only after it was too late to continue an interior attack. The fire was declared under control 19 hours later. Although this was only one failure of many that occured, it was the cornerstone that allowed a fire to get out of control.

In my opinion:

1. Pressure Regulating valves must be properly installed. The valves in the 1 Meridian Plaza Building weren’t properly set, and this result in about 40psi at the nozzle tip, where 100psi would have been required. It was determined that installers were confused as to the calibration setting and the PSI value.

2. Inspectors must be fine tuned in order to pick up on installation mistakes, and to advise on changes needed as fire department protocol changes. If inspectors in Philadelphia saw that the settings were wrong, they could have been fixed and the disaster probably averted. In addition, if a department changes its apartment packs to 2 ½ from 1 3/4, the valves must be reset in order to operate properly with a larger hose.

3. The valves must be easily adjusted, especially in low visibility conditions. Even with the most accurate adjustments possible, the amount of hose used is rarely predictable, and can throw the valves back into the “problem” category. They should be set for 3 lengths of the proper size hose, but should be easily adjustable by the crew inside.

Any other stories or opinions relating to pressure regulating valves?

[x635 4,066]

Great points.

In regard's to PRV's in standpipes,I've never used one,but I believe simpler is better. Some of these BO's can't even maintain a basic sprinkler system properly, how are they going to install/maintain these? And how will (some) pump operators and officers be alerted to the presence of these? What happens if a mutual aid company with a different setup responds?

May work great in some systems, however in Westchester it would be more of a hinderance than anything.

[Truck4 48]

Keep it simple!!! Take the PRV OFF!!!! Put a inline gauge on and you set the pressure. FDNY Spec is 3 lengths of 2 1/2 with 1 1/8 MST set at 70PSI

4 Lenths of 2 1/2 with 1 1/8 MST set at 80PSI.

Too many things can go wrong with the PRV. Can't get it off go to the next floor below or last resort open the device all the way..

Get a copy of FDNY SOP's they teach a lot on this topic.

[HFD23 37]

Any idea where we can locate a copy of those FDNY SOP's?

Also has any one thought about what you would do if for some reason the stand pipe as inoperable? or no stand pipes in the building? would u stretch 2 1/2 or 3 inch up the stair well? or would u consider lifting the line by rope into a window on the floor below? and connect your attack line from there?

just wondering what every one things plan B would be if something goes wrong... lets think alittle outside the box before we acutally face the problem...

[tbendick 27]

http://www.sageauthoring.com/fdny/ft&p/ftpeng09.pdf

Standpipe Ops

http://www.sageauthoring.com/fdny/ft&p/ftpeng08.pdf

Rope Stretch

Above are links to the FDNY SOP's.

As far as removing the PRV's if the Dept is small then they might have the ability to pre plan buildings with standpipes.

However we all know that sometimes we just can't plan for it. One recent event I heard of in Midtown on Christmas day. Engine Company brings 3 lengths of 2 1/2 hose one with nozzle and tip attached. Control FF begins to hook up to standpipe as other two FF's begin to place the hose line. Control FF was able to loosening the PRV but unable to remove it due to an occupant hose hooked up. Solution was to cut the occupant hose near the PRV. Ok now here is the funny part. Fire was in a fireplace, however the fireplace was fake with no chimney, owner didn’t know.