Westchester County Airport ARFF Staffing?

[x635 4,066]

I'm wondering, with jetBlue flying in A320's, what is the current staffing for the ARFF units? More specifcally, WHO staffs them? Last I knew, it was only 1 guy- the airport manager, who ran down and jumped in the truck and responded if needed.

Before jetBlue and Airtran (did they pull out completly?), I understood, but now with such large aircraft it's a different story. And being that they fly over such dense areas on approach and takeoff, and I hope nothing ever happens.

For our ARFF knowledgable guys, what does the FAA require for ARFF at an airport like Westchester??

Again, this could be another component to the Countywide Special Operations department that I suggested in another thread. OR, since there are so many of them there already, maybe cross-train County PD like Port Authority FD?

Or, maybe a volunteer ARFF team of guys that live in the area who would be immediately available in such a time criticial situation, as they have put this faith in other concepts recently.

[PEMO3 523]

Scary enough but a check of current FAA regs shows that Westchester County Airport is listed as a Index B for ARFF.

Determining ARFF needs

The requirements for ARFF vehicles depend on the Airport Index, as defined in Federal Aviation Regulation Part 139. The Airport Index is determined by taking the average number of scheduled passenger flights per day over the busiest three months in the preceding 12-month period. For airports that are in the process of starting or expanding passenger service, a projection may be used instead.

If there are five or more scheduled daily flights of passenger aircraft with lengths within one or more of the index ranges, then an airport is assigned the index corresponding to the longest range. For example, if there are five or more scheduled daily flights of passenger aircraft with lengths in the Index A range and five or more in the Index B range, then the airport would be assigned an Index B.

Airport Index

The Airport Index applies to all airports served by scheduled air carriers operating aircraft with a seating capacity greater than 30 passengers. The index determines the minimum number of ARFF vehicles required and the minimum types and quantities of extinguishing agents carried by those vehicles.

Airport Index AircraftLength ARFF Vehicles Extinguishing Agents (combined capacities of all vehicles)

A less than 90 ft 1 500 lbs. of sodium-based dry chem., or 450 lbs. of potassium-based dry chem plus 100 gal. of water/foam

B 90-125 ft 1-2 Index A with 1,500 gal. of water/foam

C 126-158 ft 2-3 Index A with 3,000 gal. of water/foam

D 159-200 ft 3 Index A with 4,000 gal. of water/foam

E over 200 ft 3 Index A with 6,000 gal. of water/foam

source: http://firechief.com/suppression/foam/fire...ffs_evolve_air/

The airport stat listing that shows the ARFF FAA Index link is: http://www.airnav.com/airport/KHPN

So based on this information the one aiport manager manning the one ARFF vehicle meets the minimum specs. But is it really doing what is best for the passengers. We all know that with notice the tower can get tons of help standing by to help but stuff happens on take off and landings without notice and one guy jumping in a truck is not going to cut it.

Edited March 12, 2009 by PEMO3

[Goose 188]

I'm pretty sure that the airport equipment is staffed by airport employees...i'm not sure which employees or what it takes to be a part of the crew, but that is my understanding.

[Guest mike172ny]

I work on the airport, the ARFF is staffed by the County Airport Operation workers, there jobs include, runway inspections, primeterinspections, security inspections, ID Checks around the airport and they also are ARFF. They usually drive SUV's around the airport to do their many jobs. But most are located around the terminal, they drive over to the Fire Station which is located in the main terminal and drive the Airport Response Trucks. Hope this info will help you guys out.

[helicopper 1,050]

Another thread on the subject for reference:

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=17396&hl=

[JBJ1202 27]

Last I knew, it was only 1 guy- the airport manager, who ran down and jumped in the truck and responded if needed.

I have never experienced a situation when only one member of the airport team has been on scene of a potential aircraft incident. I'm not sure of how far back you are referring to, but in the past 8 years I cannot remember one. As my good friend mike172ny stated, Airport Operations members are on the team and respond immediately.

JBJ

[aviator70 16]

I worked there for several years. The ARFF is manned by airport operations personel. The airport meets or exceeds are FAA requirements. The equipment they have today is by far much, much, much better then when I worked there. The trucks can be operated by 1 man, if needed, which they seldom have 1 man, easily without that person leaving the truck. They rely on the mutual aid system heavily. While accidents and alerts can happen anytime, this airport, compared to others I have worked at, has a very low number of either. I am remaining neutral on this topic, as I have conflicting views, but it would be very hard to justify the expense of having a full time department there 24/7. The HPN ARFF duties are very limited. When I was there, they did not repsond to car fires, structure fires or EMS calls. These were handled by the mutual aid companies and the WCPD. The mutual aid plan was pretty comprehensive and detailed, and seemed to work well.

[aviator70 16]

It is incorrect that the airport manager responds alone. The airport manager does not respond to airport emergencies in the emergency vehicles. There is never a time when 1 truck responds, both trucks always go. The FAR's also state response times, if I remember correctly, the first vehicle has to be on the scene of an accident on the airport within 3 minutes and the second within 4 minutes. This was practiced regularly, and was always met.

[helicopper 1,050]

As far as I know the Airport response is not unlike the response of many other departments in the County or our region. It's 3-5 members staffing 2 pieces of apparatus backed up by other trained airport personnel and the local FD's who respond to the airport.

I'm not aware of any circumstance where they respond with only a single person and since I rely on these people in case I am ever the victim of a mishap, I assure you that I've looked into it!

[JohnnyOV 2]

The FAR's also state response times, if I remember correctly, the first vehicle has to be on the scene of an accident on the airport within 3 minutes and the second within 4 minutes. This was practiced regularly, and was always met.

This is partially true. I am in an ARFF class right now, and the only time requirement of the department is that when the airport manager calls upon the drill of ARFF, that they must be at the mid-point of the furthest runway in 3 min, not during the time of an actual emergency. This point was drilled into our heads. So theoretically, if during a true emergency, the trucks take 4:30 to get to the scene, there is no repercussions for the department. This time only has to be demonstrated under ideal, non-emergency, clear weather, conditions.

[helicopper 1,050]

(h) Response requirements.

(1) With the aircraft rescue and firefighting equipment required under this part and the number of trained personnel that will assure an effective operation, each certificate holder must―

(i) Respond to each emergency during periods of air carrier operations; and

(ii) When requested by the Administrator, demonstrate compliance with the response requirements specified in this section.

(2) The response required by paragraph (h)(1)(ii) of this section must achieve the following performance criteria:

(i) Within 3 minutes from the time of the alarm, at least one required aircraft rescue and firefighting vehicle must reach the midpoint of the farthest runway serving air carrier aircraft from its assigned post or reach any other specified point of comparable distance on the movement area that is available to air carriers, and begin application of extinguishing agent.

(ii) Within 4 minutes from the time of alarm, all other required vehicles must reach the point specified in paragraph (h)(2)(i) of this section from their assigned posts and begin application of an extinguishing agent.

Above is quoted directly from Federal Aviation Regulations, Section 139.319

There may indeed be repercussions if the Airport does not meet the requirements of their FAA certification. They could lose their certificate (authority to operate), lose funding, be sanctioned administratively, or expose themselves to other liabilities.

If asked to demonstrate it, the airport may have to respond to other locations where air carriers operate and nothing says the FAA couldn't ask to have this demonstrated during inclement weather.

This is the standard - if the airport can consistently meet the standard during normal conditions, they should be able to meet the standard during an emergency

At least they have a response time standard to meet!

[JBJ1202 27]

The HPN ARFF duties are very limited. When I was there, they did not repsond to car fires, structure fires or EMS calls. These were handled by the mutual aid companies and the WCPD. The mutual aid plan was pretty comprehensive and detailed, and seemed to work well.

Purchase, Port Chester and Armonk all have parts of the airport in their district. Any incident that is not aircraft related is treated as a normal response for that department. The constant throughout the property is the police, which is primarily handled by WCPD.

On a side note... The response to each aircraft incident will now be based on the level of fuel and the amount of passengers on board. This ensures that the correct amount and type of equipment is used. (A two passenger Cessna will not have the same response as a Boeing 737.)

JBJ