The idea of abolishing County Government

[ems-buff 81]

Well I don't know if anyone else was watching Snooze 12 this weekend. ( There was nothing else on ) There was something actually interesting on about abolishing County Government. I feel with all the talks about a County DES run Trench Rescue team, as well as Haz-mat and many others. Would getting rid of County Government actually do something for Westchester County, Wether its duplicate of services to getting a tax break.

Westchester County Taxes are the highest in the Nation, Where does all the money go? I know the answer to that question. It goes my friends as DES, County PD, County Roads and Parks and Recreations, but think about? If we are the highest taxed county in the U.S, why don't we get stuff for it. We still need to pay for parking and to play in county run Parks. There are assistants for assistants to assist the County executive. That's just sick!?! Even the County executive own son, for whatever reason of coming out of hiding after 20 years of being under the radar, blasted his father on how bad of a job his is doing.

Even the Greenburgh Town Supervisor Paul Feiner, is looking for a away to get rid of county government. Now this man has taken a more suttle approach, then Sam Zherka of the Westchester Guardian. I think Sam Zherka step over the line with getting Spano's son involved.

Also if you think about it. Who would run the DES, What would happen to the department of Soical Services, The Airport, Westchester Medical Center.

So what do you all think. I think trimming some fat, off the top, along with a new county executive is in order. Not getting rid of county government all together.

[helicopper 1,050]

I'm sure that this will be an interesting and lively discussion. One perspective - it isn't the County taxes that are making us the highest taxed in the nation. It is SCHOOL TAXES. If you were to eliminate County government (an impossibility but we'll just go with it) there would only be a decrease of about 18-24 percent on your taxes. THEN add all the new services formerly provided by the County that must now be provided by your local municipality. I'm guessing it won't be much of a decrease (if any).

Now, you have parks with either no maintenance or they become town parks open only to town residents excluding all the prior users from neighboring communities.

Social services still needs to be administered and it won't be by done by the state.

Many local communities will need to add to their police forces because of the void left by the dissolution of the County PD. How will the airport, Kensico Dam, bike paths, and other "multi-jurisdictional" properties be policed?

Who will administer police and fire training? This is currently provided by the County and while some will argue that it can be done better, who will do it for everyone?

Many functions (including Social Services, services of the sheriff, health department, etc.) are mandated by State Law and delegated to the counties. If the County government is elminated, how do all these statutory obligations continue to be performed?

All that said, don't misunderstand me. I'm absolutely certain that the County government could be run BETTER but to eliminate it doesn't seem like the answer to me.

[abaduck 123]

I wonder how well the British model would do over here - MORE county government, not less - most of the services currently provided by towns/villages/cities would be provided by the county. Schools, garbage collections, DPW in general, and yes policing and fire protection too.

Property taxes are vastly lower in the UK too. Why? Because county councils get most of their income as a grant from central government, and the grant comes out of general taxation - mostly income tax, corporation tax, and purchase tax. The property tax paid directly to the local council on top of that is a relatively small top-up, at most a couple of thousand dollars per year for the biggest houses in the most expensive areas. Seems fairer to me - tax people according to what they earn or spend, not according to the value of their house, with little or no regard for ability to pay.

[PEMO3 523]

While eliminating county government does not solve the problem sometime the best way to get an employee to wake up and smell the coffee, and lets face it county government is "our employee" is to threaten them with possible termination. I do find that the biggest part of our taxest is from our bloated school taxes that come under the guise of a "vote" by which parent are told "just try and vote no and your kids will suffer with no sports or extras" in addition to the many unfunded mandates the state passes down for us to pay such as subsidizing the low subway fares in NYC and the student bus fares in NYC. Tax Payer need to start speaking up. How can we afford 7 to 10% tax increases? Who got a 10% pay raise last year?

[medic25 0]

If you're wondering what a state without counties would look like, just look at us in Connecticut. If you thought it was tough to sell regionalization in NY, try getting buy-in in a state without counties!

[ex-commish 490]

Your county tax is probably the smallest of your tax bill. While I understand the reasoning for wanting to abolish county govt many of what the county provides is dictated by state mandates. And last time I looked the state is in worst shape than the county. To my knowledge they haven't passed a budget on time for years. The services will have to be provided wether it be by the state or local agencies but we will pay regardless. I will use county police for example. Who will patrol the parkways? Local or state? Who will issue gun permits? Do training? The copter? Forensic investigations? Bombs? All of these are done by county police and if taken away the burden would be put on alleady strapped local and state police.

I jus't dont see it happening nor have I seen any jusitificaiton to abolish county government. Like they say be careful what you ask for...

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Well Chris as for the Airport you can have North Castle PD and/or Harrison cover what goes on. Kensico Dam you can have MPPD, DEP, and NCPD cover that. I know that on the busy days like concerts or July 4th we may need your help but for the rest of the year it is kinda ridiculous for it to be WCPD property. As is it now, we respond down there for calls prior to you having a car get there. As for the Bike path, if a crime occurs it should be the job of the PD where the crime occured.

You can keep Social Services, The County Center, and Playland. How much OT does the County have a day going to The Airport, SS, COUNTY CENTER, etc...?

I don't think you can eliminate the COUNTY GOV'T, but you can cut down on how much money they spend by letting other AGENCIES cut into the WCDPS budget.

Just so you know, I am NOT ANTI COUNTY POLICE. I have many friends there and maybe even a relative now so don't think this is about that.

[helicopper 1,050]

Well Chris as for the Airport you can have North Castle PD and/or Harrison cover what goes on. Kensico Dam you can have MPPD, DEP, and NCPD cover that. I know that on the busy days like concerts or July 4th we may need your help but for the rest of the year it is kinda ridiculous for it to be WCPD property. As is it now, we respond down there for calls prior to you having a car get there. As for the Bike path, if a crime occurs it should be the job of the PD where the crime occured.

You can keep Social Services, The County Center, and Playland. How much OT does the County have a day going to The Airport, SS, COUNTY CENTER, etc...?

I don't think you can eliminate the COUNTY GOV'T, but you can cut down on how much money they spend by letting other AGENCIES cut into the WCDPS budget.

Just so you know, I am NOT ANTI COUNTY POLICE. I have many friends there and maybe even a relative now so don't think this is about that.

Can you imagine how confusing it would be at the airport if you had to have a surveyor come out to determine if the crime or accident occurred in Rye Brook, Harrison, or North Castle? The same is true of the Kensico plaza and bike paths too. It would be far simpler and more efficient at every level to have a County PD and elminate most of the 42 little jobs - except for the four big cities. Imagine regionalized communications dispatching the closest car to a crime in progress and every other car in the area knowing about it and being get into the area to look for suspects? Now we have to wait for a dispatcher to process the job, dispatch a car, the car to get there, broadcast confirmation of the crime and a description, the dispatcher to reguritate all that via the hotline and for all the other dispatchers to radio the info to cops that could have been in the right place had they known about it a few minutes sooner.

As for OT, the County for years has kept our full-time numbers low and paid for additional coverage with OT because it's cheaper than another full-time employee with pension, benefits, etc. - at least according to the bean counters.

Neither North Castle, Harrison, or Rye Brook has the numbers of cops necessary to cover the airport so they'd have to hire a substantial number - adding to the taxes of the taxpayers in those three towns - to cover a facility that serves far more than just those three towns. It is far more equitable to have that cost borne by the County as a whole.

Then you have pistol permits, civil processes, and warrant/fugitive unit that are mandated by State Law to be performed by the "Sheriff" or in our case County PD. Who will do these jobs, every town/village/city? Come on, that would be horribly inefficient.

There are proabably far better examples to support eliminating County government than the police.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I can't speak for the Airport, but I can speak for the Kensico Dam. I know the boundaries as does North Castle since we have had Jumpers down many times. I am pretty sure the COUNTY doesn't handle these calls unless the person makes it to certain part of the Plaza that makes it COUNTY PROPERTY.

Please abolish the 42 little jobs and make us all one. That would be awesome. As long as I started at Top Pay and we figured out some sort of Seniority I am all down with that. Much more could get done in this County then. I wasn't saying Elimainate COUNTY PD. I was saying let other Agencies help out.

As for the OT. All you have to do is read the paper and you can see what some of your guys are making on OT. One would think that hiring some other people would cut some of this OT. But if you say it doesn't than it must be true.

[dadbo46 50]

The bloated costs are on the local level. Do we really need 5 villages and an unincorporated area of the Town of Greenburgh ?...and add to that three fire departments with 5 stations who mirror each other and serve the better part of Greenburgh ? Do we really need a Rye and Rye Brook government.....and a Pelham and Pelham Manor (There used to be 3 villages in the Town of Pelham.....so I guess that is progress.

And how many fire departments are there in Westchester and how many apparatus do we have.

School districts are simply out of control.....have been and will continue to be. Consolidate them on a regional or county basis like they do in many other states.

Let's look in a mirror and determine where regionalzation and consolidation works to save costs.

[ajsbear 11]

My only thing is the duplication of services. If we were to combine many of the county services with local there would be an overall savings.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

The bloated costs are on the local level. Do we really need 5 villages and an unincorporated area of the Town of Greenburgh ?...and add to that three fire departments with 5 stations who mirror each other and serve the better part of Greenburgh ? Do we really need a Rye and Rye Brook government.....and a Pelham and Pelham Manor (There used to be 3 villages in the Town of Pelham.....so I guess that is progress.

And how many fire departments are there in Westchester and how many apparatus do we have.

School districts are simply out of control.....have been and will continue to be. Consolidate them on a regional or county basis like they do in many other states.

Let's look in a mirror and determine where regionalzation and consolidation works to save costs.

Well Said.

We have 3 FD's at least. All with the same Equipment and less than 2 miles away from each other. GIVE ME A BREAK. WHAT A JOKE. And it's not like they are out all day answering alarms. I guess it is good for PARADE SEASON though!!

[ajsbear 11]

Well Said.

We have 3 FD's at least. All with the same Equipment and less than 2 miles away from each other. GIVE ME A BREAK. WHAT A JOKE. And it's not like they are out all day answering alarms. I guess it is good for PARADE SEASON though!!

That goes the same for most of the towns within Westchester. Look at Ossining, town and village services, PD FD, and Cortlandt covered by 6 fire departments, state and county PD's plus 2 small departments covering villages. We are all tax payers and its time to think of how to save money.

School Districts are another issue. It's time for many of them to start looking to combine, look at what they can do without, renegotiate contracts, share services etc.

[10-Buff-4 0]

Here's something to consider. Connecticut abolished County Government in 1960. Granted, I have no idea about the history of County Government in Connecticut, but, Sheriffs continued to exist in Connecticut until 2000. It would seem to me that in Connecticut there is a backlash back towards Counties and Regionalization, there are 169 Towns and a huge budget deficit. Why do I mention this? Well, in part, this article in the Sunday Times:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/nyregion/connecticut/08policect.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Resident%20State%20Troopers&st=cse

The Connecticut State Police are largely the only agency to provide support to Local and Municipal Police, in some cases, the only Constabulary Agency.

By contrast, in 1999, Massachusetts gave Counties the option to abolish themselves as governmental bodies and most of them did (Plymouth County, near Cape Cod, is a notable exception). While certain county offices still exist (e.g. Sheriff, District Attorney, etc.), counties now are largely administrative designations for regions. (Some District Attorneys aren't even responsible for a single county anymore, for example, the Northwestern District Attorney is responsible for both Hampshire and Franklin Counties in Western Mass., similarly, there is one District Attorney for the "Cape and Islands".) Massachusetts also delegated the ability to form regional compacts to Towns and Cities, and several have formed. I don't know if this predates the abolition of County Government, but, several mutual Law Enforcement pacts currently exist, including the Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council in Boston, the Northeast Law Enforcement Council, etc. These all provide support to Town and City P.D.'s, usually in the area of Special Operations and Training. Massachusetts Sheriffs' also have comparably limited responsibilities; they operate the County Jail and serve Civil Process, but, do not tend to provide Law Enforcement support, unlike in New York. Now, I can't speak to about the efficiency or efficacy of all of this, but, I figured it is something to consider in all of this.

Hope this helps.

-Joe DA BUFF

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

That goes the same for most of the towns within Westchester. Look at Ossining, town and village services, PD FD, and Cortlandt covered by 6 fire departments, state and county PD's plus 2 small departments covering villages. We are all tax payers and its time to think of how to save money.

School Districts are another issue. It's time for many of them to start looking to combine, look at what they can do without, renegotiate contracts, share services etc.

I forgot about the school districts. We have 2 High/Middle schools within 1.5 miles of each other. Back in the day they should have combined these schools. I have bitched (can I say that?) about how good the sports progams could be giving athelets a greater chance of going to a better college because of more exposure. Every year there is a School Budget. It fails on a Tues when there is a vote then they call for a re-vote and do it on Wed when all the Senior Citizens are out of town. We have waited for a NEW TRACK at my former High School since I was probably there and that was LONG AGO. What a JOKE.

Then people complain and want some sort of kick back from the GOV'T. It's also funny that everywhere you look, somebody in a high position has been skimming money from their position. Did people forget abou ttheir morals? I'm Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

What we should do is get rid of school boards, consolidate schools and send a clear mandate that there is no reason why school budgets and taxes need to increase by between 5-10% every year. It is crazy.

We have some of the best public schools in the country (Katonah, Chappaqua, Rye, Bedford, Larchmont to name a few) in our county, but there is no reason to tell the tax payers that they need to pay more again especially in these difficult times.

[Guest]

Why abolish county government and make even more redundant services, when the area could be consolidated under a county government and you could minimize reproduction of services? Would you still need (at least) the same number of people to staff fire apparatus and police depts? yes, but you wouldn't need dozens of upper management getting paid huge salaries, nor all the apparatus that sit around waiting for the summer and fall to be washed and waxed and paraded around. I also think that, because of the bureaucracy and attempts to 'idiot proof' SOPs and SOGs, more safety regulations could be applied, making things safer for fire departments across the board.

[ajsbear 11]

I forgot about the school districts. We have 2 High/Middle schools within 1.5 miles of each other. Back in the day they should have combined these schools. I have bitched (can I say that?) about how good the sports progams could be giving athelets a greater chance of going to a better college because of more exposure. Every year there is a School Budget. It fails on a Tues when there is a vote then they call for a re-vote and do it on Wed when all the Senior Citizens are out of town. We have waited for a NEW TRACK at my former High School since I was probably there and that was LONG AGO. What a JOKE.

Then people complain and want some sort of kick back from the GOV'T. It's also funny that everywhere you look, somebody in a high position has been skimming money from their position. Did people forget abou ttheir morals? I'm Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

When you and what you vote on in the spring is a joke. The vote is on the extra's. Transportation, extra curricular activities, sports and so on. 90% of the budget which we do not get a say in is either the state mandates or the labor contracts. We have no say in these. Usually improvements like a new track would be a separate issue and not included or put in with a group of other improvements. We pay the some of the highest rates per student in the country. It's time we trim the fat here. Maybe privatizing some of the services, making them deal with competitive bidding. Do away with the guaranteed jobs for life. In the private sector people put more and more hours in than 37 1/2 or even 40.

[gamewell45 258]

Maybe privatizing some of the services, making them deal with competitive bidding. Do away with the guaranteed jobs for life. In the private sector people put more and more hours in than 37 1/2 or even 40.

I'm not sure if thats such a good idea. I'm sure the teachers would take issue with that concept; it'd be the same thing as privatizing the prisions or fire service. I'm sure if fire districts started contracting out fire protection to Rural Metro, you'd have every firefighter up in arms over that. Perhaps the teachers might not quibble over something like 20 years and out with a pension along the lines of what firefighters or police enjoy as opposed to lifetime jobs. Additionally most teachers put in long hours; most of them bring home work at night; grade papers, prepare assignments for the next day's class, research topics and they don't get paid overtime when they do that either. I'm sure most of them earn their money just like the rest of us do.

[5slow 9]

I think Paul Feiner should be very careful with this issue. He is in a major financial dilemna and as a Hastings homeowner I'd rather see his government go versus county government. I pay pretty high taxes to the Town of Greenburgh and can't be on their police list, can't go to their pools, but can give them a lot of money... Yes, they have a collecting agreement with the villages etc..., but I have to believe we could definitely do without them!

[abaduck 123]

In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.

-Mark Twain

[ex-commish 490]

I'm not sure if thats such a good idea. I'm sure the teachers would take issue with that concept; it'd be the same thing as privatizing the prisions or fire service. I'm sure if fire districts started contracting out fire protection to Rural Metro, you'd have every firefighter up in arms over that. Perhaps the teachers might not quibble over something like 20 years and out with a pension along the lines of what firefighters or police enjoy as opposed to lifetime jobs. Additionally most teachers put in long hours; most of them bring home work at night; grade papers, prepare assignments for the next day's class, research topics and they don't get paid overtime when they do that either. I'm sure most of them earn their money just like the rest of us do.

We saw first hand how privitization of fire deparments work here in NY. It doesn't. And it is worse in prisons.

[helicopper 1,050]

I think Paul Feiner should be very careful with this issue. He is in a major financial dilemna and as a Hastings homeowner I'd rather see his government go versus county government. I pay pretty high taxes to the Town of Greenburgh and can't be on their police list, can't go to their pools, but can give them a lot of money... Yes, they have a collecting agreement with the villages etc..., but I have to believe we could definitely do without them!

Sorry, slow but I think the better option would be to elminate the SIX small governments within the town and make it a single government. I know everyone wants their own little paradise but in this economy I think we're going to have to start making hard decisions.

I don't have the original Westchester2000 publication but back in the '80's all of what we're talking about was proposed for almost all of the same reasons. What happened? Nothing! Sadly I believe that some historian will be reading this 20 years from now observing the same thing.

What we should do is get rid of school boards, consolidate schools and send a clear mandate that there is no reason why school budgets and taxes need to increase by between 5-10% every year. It is crazy.

Or MORE!!! You're absolutely right! I don't know where the schools come up with their rates of inflation and requisite tax increases but they're obviously doing something very very wrong if everything costs 10% more every year. Wasn't there a recent proposal to cap such tax increases? Where'd that wind up?

[Monty 35]

What we should do is get rid of school boards, consolidate schools and send a clear mandate that there is no reason why school budgets and taxes need to increase by between 5-10% every year. It is crazy.

I don't know the reasoning for it, but I did hear that round here the tentative school budget was an increase of 1.5% - however, because of probable state aid reductions, reduced tax income (from property sales, or county?) - the estimate was that taxpayers would actually end up with about a 4% tax increase.

[PEMO3 523]

I don't know the reasoning for it, but I did hear that round here the tentative school budget was an increase of 1.5% - however, because of probable state aid reductions, reduced tax income (from property sales, or county?) - the estimate was that taxpayers would actually end up with about a 4% tax increase.

In other words the school districts are saying, prices are up, home values are down, the economy is bad, your in a hole, we have to charge more to make up, so here is a bigger shovel, dig deeper we want MORE!!! Enough already. I am tired of hearing how hard teachers work, they chose the profession they work in, and they work only 180 days a year, are off every weekend, holiday and snow storm not counting 6 to 8 weeks every summer. They knew the salary going into the job and still chose to follow the path they chose. So they grade papers at night and get even by giving the kids tons of weekend & holiday homework. Some do come in early and stay late but most show up at 7 and leave at 3. Teach 4 to 5 - 50 minute period a day or a total of 4 hours work a day.

[gamewell45 258]

In other words the school districts are saying, prices are up, home values are down, the economy is bad, your in a hole, we have to charge more to make up, so here is a bigger shovel, dig deeper we want MORE!!! Enough already. I am tired of hearing how hard teachers work, they chose the profession they work in, and they work only 180 days a year, are off every weekend, holiday and snow storm not counting 6 to 8 weeks every summer. They knew the salary going into the job and still chose to follow the path they chose. So they grade papers at night and get even by giving the kids tons of weekend & holiday homework. Some do come in early and stay late but most show up at 7 and leave at 3. Teach 4 to 5 - 50 minute period a day or a total of 4 hours work a day.

I'm not trying to be a smart a**, but if we use your analogy, no one told you where to live so if your taxes are high, don't complain; no one told you what career path to follow so if you are unhappy with your raise, or have to work weekends or nights, don't complain. You knew what the taxes could be when you moved into your home and you knew that home values could always drop in the event of a recession, so don't complain. You should have known that these things happen.

Admittedly, they make good monies; but remember they also invest a small fortune in education; all public school teachers have at a minimum both a Bachelors and Masters Degree, plus state certification. You add that all up and you find out that its a tidy sum of money. Not for nothing, I can't begin to tell you how many teachers spend money out of their own pockets to purchase supplies for their students because the district cuts funding and without the teachers chipping in to buy the basics, its the students who lose.

For those of you who belong to unions, we all need to realize the importance of supporting each other in tough times.

Edited March 11, 2009 by gamewell45

[ex-commish 490]

I'm not trying to be a smart a**,

You?? Not a smart a**?

[M' Ave 1,466]

The problem is all of these silly Villages and Towns. They should have far less authority. The ANSWER is the county. Why are we talking about abolishing it?

[grumpyff 1,159]

I think we should abolish all the towns/villages/hamlet etc and go with consolidation into a county level. My mother lives in Pleasantville and told me she pays almost $15,000 a year in taxes. Thank god she no longer has a mortgage. What does she get in return? Municipal trash collection and road repair, a police department more interested in politics than police work, a volunteer fire dept and volunteer ambulance corps (with paid) medics, and the schools. Just look at the schools to see how much money is wasted. In Pleasantville, you can have a Pleasantville zipcode, and see the high school from your house, but since you are in the Mt PLeasant school ditrict, no you have to be bussed several miles away to Westlake HS. Busses, fuel, mechanics, drivers, insurance all required and paid for by the taxpayers because of a line drawn in the sand.

[gamewell45 258]

You?? Not a smart a**?

You know me so well!