Some Taxpayers Trying to Shut Down Fairview (Dutchess Co.)

[mdm911 5]

For those who do not already know. The Fairview Fire District in Poughkeepsie, has had tax related problems for some time. There are a large number of tax exempt properties in the district. These properties do not pay fire tax, but do receive fire and ems services. About 47% of the district is tax exempt. About 45 to 50% of the alarms in the district are to tax exempt properties. There have been many attempted solutions that the union and the district have been working on for years, but none have been able to solve the problem. The underlying problem is the fact that the properties are tax exempt. The only way to solve the problem is the legislation, mentioned on here before, requiring tax exempt properties to pay fire tax. This legislation is 100% fair. These properties receive fire and ems services, they should pay for those services just like everyone else who receives the service.

There is a group of tax payers called "Fairness for Fairview" that have been attempting to fix the tax problem, they have tried all the same things the union and district have with the same results. No one working for Fairview has done anything to cause this problem, however some of the citizens want to terminate the fire district, close the doors and lay us off. There is another citizens group called the "Citizens for Equitable Fire Districts of Dutchess County." The only thing this group wants to see if the fire district to be terminated. Attached is a mailing that was sent to all of the tax paying properties by CEFDDC. This mailing is filled with mis-information about the state of the fire district.

Our biggest concern is that the citizens of the community are going to be persuaded into signing this petition with this mis-information. If the fire district is terminated, fire protection is still required. Who will provided this protection? Anyone who lives, works , or knows someone in the Fairview Fire District, please help by informing them of the consequences of terminating the Fairview Fire District.

Petition_to_Terminate_Fairview.pdf

For more information on the Tax Issue please check out the following websites.

Fairview Fire District

IAFF 2623

NYS Legislation

Edited March 8, 2009 by mdm911

[xfirefighter484x 234]

It is a sad situation. Rather than petitioning to rectify the situation, they simply want to shut down FFD. Their vision to save money is to eliminate the expenditure (need for a fire tax).

FFD has 4 staff member on per shift, and do a helluva lot with just those 4 guys manning 2 engines, 1 ladder, and 1 ambulance. Going m/a as FAST to the City of Poughkeepsie on call of a 10-75 (which is another very understaffed group, but a story for a different day).

Especially with the economic downturn, has not helped these guy's situation. These are an outstanding group who cover an area of high populous (Marist College, Dutchess Community College, Saint Francis Hospital, Hudson River Psych Ctr, DCDER, and more).

[Guest]

if i recall correctly the longer the response time for the fire dept. the higher the insurance is.... so by paying less for taxes the inturn will hav to pay higher insurance, correct me if i am wrong but this is what ive been told

[citystation1848 15]

Well what the taxpayers are forgetting is they'll still have to pay their taxes, it'll just go to either Arlington or Hyde Park. They cant evade the problem, the residents gotta sit down and figure it out.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

being one that has no clue of anything with this matter...... why are the properties tax exempt ??

[INIT915 1,119]

being one that has no clue of anything with this matter...... why are the properties tax exempt ??

Owned by Federal/State/Local governments, colleges/universities, public buildings and lands, etc...

[Tanker 10eng 140]

colleges/universities

ok, are these State Colleges ???? county ? or private ?

[64FFMJK 21]

ok, are these State Colleges ???? county ? or private ?

yes yes and yes.

It doesn't matter none pay taxes. Also several state and county buildings such as DC911, State DOT, State OEM. and St Francis Hospital and this is just off the top of my head.

[64FFMJK 21]

Oh and how could I forget the Psych center

[x129K 1,393]

The epitome of FTM-PTB

(google it)

[Tanker 10eng 140]

thank you, we know the feeling.... Metro North has a large repair shop in our town, we provide them with FD and EMS and yet we get nothing from them.... not even a used donated pickup or box truck !!!

[mdm911 5]

The list of exempt properties is on both the district and union site.

I also have a power point of pictures of the majority of the tax exempt properties, just to put into perspective the size and value of the buildings that are protected for free. For example, not to pick on Marist, but although they are only listed as one tax exempt property there are easily over 50 buildings on campus, including several highrises. Unfortunately it is a large file and it too large to upload here. I am working on making it under 2 MB.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Oh and how could I forget the Psych center

Thats just NUTS

[firefighter36 52]

Everyone, thanks for the replies and show of support. For those of you who I have communicated with personally regarding this situation, thank you for all of your help. Be sure to check out our website www.iaff2623.org, for news on this situation.

Again, Thanks.

Mark Bendel

Local 2623 Vice President

[Guest EFFP411]

Well I wish you guys all the best of luck, cause you are going to need it. The stupidity and ignorance of the general public never ceases to amaze me, "Oh, we don't have fires here, why do we need the fire department... It can NEVER happen to MY HOUSE" is the mentality that drives this type of thing. All your brothers and sisters are behind you guys on this one, myself included

[Anthony Tester 13]

The State needs to change how they tax the exempt properties, period. Also, those who represent the town (Councilmen, Supervisor;s, etc.) need to draw business's back to the area. Instead of encouraging business to come to Poughkeepsie and Hyde Park, it seems to be more of the norm to tie up the process with ridiculous addendums. Those who were once interested in building in the area eventually get tired of the process and the project disappears. The worst part about this ordeal is that the frustration is taken out on the very same people who are there to protect the people. Tax those that need to be taxed, reduce the homeowners tax, and move on already. Its not the Firefighters fault that this has gone on as long as it has. Please Support the Fairview Firefighters, and get involved.

[helicopper 1,050]

Would it be feasible to merge/consolidate Fairview with Arlington and Hyde Park to spread the cost over a larger tax base and reduce the overall operating expenses?

What do these petition pushers propose for fire coverage if Fairview is eliminated? If Arlington and/or Hyde Park are to provide coverage, won't they be taxing the same people essentially the same amount?

[Patch6713 18]

What do these petition pushers propose for fire coverage if Fairview is eliminated? If Arlington and/or Hyde Park are to provide coverage, won't they be taxing the same people essentially the same amount?

I think that the higher tax area of Fairview would be spread over the lower taxed area of whoever would now cover the area. So, it lowers the taxes for Fairview area and raises everyone else in the new district. (If I have it all correct.) I don't see the citizens of the neighboring districts going for this because it would raise there taxes unnecessarily so other people's taxes would be lower.

[firefighter36 52]

As far as our research shows Chris, If the district was simply dissolved, the assets would be liquidated, and the proceeds would go to the Town of Poughkeepsie, as that is where the station lies. Fire protection would become the responsibility of the Town(s), and there is no plan as to where anything would go from there.

There is no answer from the group as to what they are looking for in the way of coverage if they shut the department down. There is no certainty that the taxes will be reduced if we get merged with another district. Other concerns such as logistics, staffing, and level of response become paramount concerns.

What is troubling is that our easiest way to combat the issue would be changing State Law. The issue with that is the precedence it sets statewide, i.e. It may work here in Fairview, but what would the financial implications be on a similar situation in Western NY?

Thank you to everyone for your help and support. Please feel free to visit our website, www.iaff2623.org, or contact us with any questions/ concerns.

Edited March 9, 2009 by mbendel36

[IzzyEng4 427]

Well what the taxpayers are forgetting is they'll still have to pay their taxes, it'll just go to either Arlington or Hyde Park. They cant evade the problem, the residents gotta sit down and figure it out.

And also it seems by the petition letter those residents in the Fairview district don't realize that they will increase Arlington's and Hyde Park's tax rate for protection if they become part of those districts. Do the taxpayers in Arlington and Hyde Park understand what is going on with Fairview? Without a plan then Fairview will be without any fire protection and technically the area fire districts do not have to provide fire protection if Fairview is disbanded and that area would suffer being unprotected.

With only the 47% of taxable properties in the district and the other percentage exempt, who is going to get what? So we'll split it 50 / 50 and the other districts or even the town will be in the same boat as Fairview is facing now. We have seem similar problems in the City of West Haven with their three fire districts, two of which are going through financial problems also but they have worked it out for the most part.

Fairview brothers and sisters, keep you head high and good luck with the fight!

[Anthony Tester 13]

Throughout the country, firehouses are closing due to budget deficits. Understood, demographics change, populations change, towns change. The fire service adapts accordingly. If call volumes continue to drop, then that department needs to change accordingly. But when call volumes continue in an upward swing, the thought of closing a firehouse is mind boggling. Here is an interesting link to a career department that was forced by the City to shut its doors;

http://www.fmba21.org/

[medic25 0]

Have any attempts been made to have the non-profits pay a PILOT/PILT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes)? This is done by a fair amount of universities, government institutions, etc that take up a big chunk of the tax base. Yale University and Yale New Haven Hospital both contribute several million dollars/year to the city of New Haven, a percentage of which is based upon how many fire calls the university generates.

Edited March 9, 2009 by medic25

[Beekman 5]

Hey Mark,

Having friends who are volunteers or career staff in Fairview, why wouldn't it be feasible to merge Arlington and Fairview and absorb the career staff into the Arlington ranks? With the exception of the Chief, I'm sure you could easily prove that the manpower and station are still needed and that the Station is strategically located. You would spread the tax burden over most of the Town and not have to worry about your jobs every time you need to have a budget hearing.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman

[mfc2257 464]

I spent several years of my firefighting service in Gettysburg, PA which had several similar issues (and some additional ones). Much like FFD in Dutchess, Gettysburg had a vast majority of its first due area covered by National Park Land (battlefield), Gettysburg College, Lutheran Theological Seminary, Adams County Jail, as well as many historic not for profit properties that have been preserved within the Borough itself. To compound this, in PA the levying of a fire tax is very difficult unless you are a city.... Boroughs, Townships, etc., cannot levy a fire tax even on its residents and businesses. So what happens is the FD is left to handle fundraising on its own (carnival, bingo, shrip feed, golf tourney's) and the responsible businesses and citizens make contributions to the fund drive. Most municipalities make a nominal elective contribution to the fire department as well (5, 10, 15 thousand... not much).

One vital componant to fundraising is to educate the community as to what they are getting as far as Fire-Rescue-EMS services. It is also important to work with the institutions that are tax-exempt so that they understand the load they put on the agency that is providing services and to help get an annual contribution. Gettysburg College just gave Gettysburg FD $200,000 towards the cost of their new 100ft Seagrave Truck... This was done after the truck was purchased and there was no expectation that the contribution would be made, but it underscores the relationship between the college and the FD. At the end of the day, the FD which is not a Fire District or an agency of the municipality, owns all its own equipment (Quint, Truck, Rescue-Engine, Engine, 2 Ambulances, Traffic Control Unit, Service Truck) and it's fire hall and pays for 24hr staffing of its ambulances.... This kind of situation is managable, however it requires a ton of work to overcome the challenges of a district that cannot provide funding that is commenserate with the level of protection that is required.

Have the colleges been approached to see if they are willing to help pay the costs of the department. Have the other tax-exempt organizations been approached as well?

[Guest]

Mark,

Having been in the neighboring fire district for a few years now, and the fire service for about 27 years, I have seen this type of public mentality before. You have a group of "concerned" citizens who have no idea how a fire/ems dept. is run. They don't see the hours of training, the 2am runs in all types of weather, hell there are some people in the fairness committee who didn't even know what the FFD equiptment looked like. I witnessed that firsthand at the last Memorial Day Parade. All they see is the perceived negative. I have been quietly following your plight and hope that this issue will come to a successful conclusion. Just one more thought..Has anyone on any of these citizen groups been on the receiving end of your services? I would say no based on their idealisic rants. Anyone who has received the help of any Fire/EMS response is usually very grateful for those men and women being there when they are needed. Good Luck. Stay safe

[x134 46]

Hey Mark,

Having friends who are volunteers or career staff in Fairview, why wouldn't it be feasible to merge Arlington and Fairview and absorb the career staff into the Arlington ranks? With the exception of the Chief, I'm sure you could easily prove that the manpower and station are still needed and that the Station is strategically located. You would spread the tax burden over most of the Town and not have to worry about your jobs every time you need to have a budget hearing.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman

Try selling that to the Arlington taxpayer.

[firefighter36 52]

Everyone,

Thanks for the input. Without writing a novel here, I can say that we have hit on the concerns you have raised one way or another throughout this entire roller coaster ride. I think Brian hit the nail on the head when he stated that those who are "concerned" only see negativity. We have worked very hard on all fronts to develop good working relationships with all parties involved, including the tax-exempts. Even so, we are always vilified one way or another by our "concerned citizens." Thanks for the ideas and support.

Another person asked if these same "concerned citizens" have been on the receiving end of our services. Without getting into great depth or detail, I can say that our department's members, career and volunteer have responded and given competent, prompt, and professional service to a great deal of our district's residents and taxpayers, and will continue to do so, not matter their tax-exempt status, or feelings toward their tax bills or our members. We are here to do our jobs the best we can and provide the best service possible given the circumstances.

Mark Bendel

Local 2623 Vice President

Edited March 9, 2009 by mbendel36

[Danger 160]

Hey Mark,

Having friends who are volunteers or career staff in Fairview, why wouldn't it be feasible to merge Arlington and Fairview and absorb the career staff into the Arlington ranks? With the exception of the Chief, I'm sure you could easily prove that the manpower and station are still needed and that the Station is strategically located. You would spread the tax burden over most of the Town and not have to worry about your jobs every time you need to have a budget hearing.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman

Why would an Arlington resident want that? Conversely, I wonder if resolutions from the boards of fire commissioners of Arlington and Roosevelt stating they will not expand their districts would help Fairview's situation?

[exmrvfc 0]

If I am reading town law correctly the petition merely is to force the Town Board (or both Towns in this case) to hold a meeting on the issue. Then according to Article 11 section 185 of Town law:

"After the hearing upon notice as provided hereinbefore and upon the evidence given thereat, the town board or

boards shall determine whether it is in the public interest to dissolve the district."

It would seem to me that lacking any other plan to provide Fire Protection, it is clearly not in the best public interest to dissolve the district. That would be the angle I would play behind the scenes with the Town Boards. Has the District tried to "join forces" with this coalition to petition the State Legislators together over the tax inequities and get the State Law passed (on taxing the non profits)? Or as another poster suggested, pursuing PILOTS with the Non Profits?? It might help to work together on those issues and that would take you out of the role as their adversary. It may be possible to negotiate a PILOT if the Non Profits think the revised State Legislation has any chance of passing.

[x635 4,066]

I know it's irrelevant, but an interesting fact. Fairview Fire Department in Greenburgh (Westchester County) also has almost over 50% tax-exempt properties. And these are the facilities that tax them the most.....nursing homes, colleges, churches, parkways, etc)

Good luck to the guys at Fairview North!