Discussion - House Fire Pawling, NY

[xfirefighter484x 234]

The News Times article with credit to EMT Bravo

Fire engulfs N.Y. house

http://www.newstimes.com/latestnews/ci_11865963

NICE!!!

Good to see other outside news agencies are using our information AND crediting us with it!

[markmets415 524]

Thats the funny thing Mark there was a residential sprinkler system in the house. From what I understand it was activated but I would venture to guess the massive fire load above was to much for the design of the system. Plus sprinkles inside wouldn't have helped to much the fire was in the roof and burnd down into the structure.

Ryan thanks for that information, clears it up very nicely

[lad12derff 283]

One PFD member did make the roof, and I am not gonna lie...I puckered up quite a bit when I saw him hop off the bucket!

If anyone has any suggestion on what they may have done - I am all ears!

I don't think I could make any good suggestion on how to handle 10 inches of straw but I will say that jumping off the bucket onto that "BRUSH FIRE" on the roof is about as stupid as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane into the middle of a wildfire.

[helicopper 1,050]

Would calling in a contractor with a large excavator have worked? Use the bucket to scrape the hay off the roof to expose the stuff your saw can cut or just punch through the whole roof? Given how big and how long this fire was going, the response time of a contractor may not have been so bad... (just a thought from a non-fire guy with too active an imagination)

[EJS1810 7]

The homeowner had his own excavator that was used

[x129K 1,393]

Would calling in a contractor with a large excavator have worked? Use the bucket to scrape the hay off the roof to expose the stuff your saw can cut or just punch through the whole roof? Given how big and how long this fire was going, the response time of a contractor may not have been so bad... (just a thought from a non-fire guy with too active an imagination)

Yes...the homeowner did indeed have his own Catepillar excavatar that was used later int he fire as you desribed..and actually with Brewster's crew to trench the garage...

Had we known it was on premise, with live in mexicans that operated it - no doubt it would have been used earlier...however..still, acess to the front was limited due to the "moat"

Edited March 9, 2009 by x129K

[FIRECHIEF63 55]

Thank god, finally some pictures... I heard of this fire while I was at the National Fire Academy, from my son and he said "Dad there is a fire in Pawling and they are calling everyone, it's big".

Of course I said to myself not to worry there will be a article and pictures in the PoJo the next day... Yeah was I so wrong, but you guys never disappoint me, long behold here are some very nice shots here and no doubt when PhotoUnit gets the rest up we'll see some awesome shots too.

Anyway thanks guys, wish I was home and would have been there myself snapping off a few shots to have and share...

Edited March 9, 2009 by FIRECHIEF63

[tdt560 1]

A thatch roof? That's a first for me, and I have been around the fire service for a while. I have fought fires at homes with everyting from tin, slate, terracotta and everything in between but never a thatch. It just goes to show you that the people that build homes or plan homes never think about what happens when a home is confronted with fire. Be safe out there because you never know what you may confront. I work in a very wealthy area (one of the wealthest counties in the country) so now it has me thinking because we pretty regularly run "homes" of this size. How wide was the moat? I have looked up this "home" on google earth but the image is rather old and it still seems to be under construction. Best guess estimate of square footage?

[JetPhoto 626]

Best guess estimate of square footage?

9000 Sq Ft based on tax records

Use maps.live.com You can look at the buildings and property from all 4 sides (and you can see the "Moat")

Owned by Terry Davis, a Manhattan real estate Mongol

[fireguy43 35]

9000 Sq Ft based on tax records

Use maps.live.com You can look at the buildings and property from all 4 sides (and you can see the "Moat")

Owned by Terry Davis, a Manhattan real estate Mongol

LOL! It's Trevor Davis. And although his business adversaries may consider him ruthless, I don't think he is a Mongol! Mogul, perhaps, but not Mongol

[x129K 1,393]

A thatch roof? That's a first for me, and I have been around the fire service for a while. I have fought fires at homes with everyting from tin, slate, terracotta and everything in between but never a thatch. It just goes to show you that the people that build homes or plan homes never think about what happens when a home is confronted with fire. Be safe out there because you never know what you may confront. I work in a very wealthy area (one of the wealthest counties in the country) so now it has me thinking because we pretty regularly run "homes" of this size. How wide was the moat? I have looked up this "home" on google earth but the image is rather old and it still seems to be under construction. Best guess estimate of square footage?

I have been researching these roofs since this fire..they are very popular over in the UK...a buddy of mine and fireman from Millbrook sent me a text...apparentrly what they do over in the UK is to soak the thacth with a heavy coat of foam to slow the burn, then work off an aerial to scrape away the straw material (which comes in 4, 12, or 18 inch thickness depending on the pitch of the roof - here we were confronted with a 12 inch layer) to the roof material itself, then proceed to vent.

This is obviously a time and manpower intensive operation.

I have never been a fan of the CAFS engines that are gaining popularity around here, always preferred to "do it the old, snotty way with water", but this would have been a great incident for CAFS application early ii, based on that research.

[hilltophunter 1]

I have been researching these roofs since this fire..they are very popular over in the UK...a buddy of mine and fireman from Millbrook sent me a text...apparentrly what they do over in the UK is to soak the thacth with a heavy coat of foam to slow the burn, then work off an aerial to scrape away the straw material (which comes in 4, 12, or 18 inch thickness depending on the pitch of the roof - here we were confronted with a 12 inch layer) to the roof material itself, then proceed to vent.

This is obviously a time and manpower intensive operation.

I have never been a fan of the CAFS engines that are gaining popularity around here, always preferred to "do it the old, snotty way with water", but this would have been a great incident for CAFS application early ii, based on that research.

Finally finally

Great play by play Dan

[markmets415 524]

I have been researching these roofs since this fire..they are very popular over in the UK...a buddy of mine and fireman from Millbrook sent me a text...apparentrly what they do over in the UK is to soak the thacth with a heavy coat of foam to slow the burn, then work off an aerial to scrape away the straw material (which comes in 4, 12, or 18 inch thickness depending on the pitch of the roof - here we were confronted with a 12 inch layer) to the roof material itself, then proceed to vent.

This is obviously a time and manpower intensive operation.

I have never been a fan of the CAFS engines that are gaining popularity around here, always preferred to "do it the old, snotty way with water", but this would have been a great incident for CAFS application early ii, based on that research.

Dan what was actually under the straw material?

[x129K 1,393]

It appeared to have a foam board layer under it, then wood...it was hard to tell because it burnt off first, then the thatch....

[markmets415 524]

It appeared to have a foam board layer under it, then wood...it was hard to tell because it burnt off first, then the thatch....

Thanks, we're going to have to get you a helmet cam with a live feed to the site to track your numerous activities during an incident.

[x129K 1,393]

Thanks, we're going to have to get you a helmet cam with a live feed to the site to track your numerous activities during an incident.

No way...no thanks.

[markmets415 524]

No way...no thanks.

Yeah and I know why, anyways as always thanks for objective first hand accounts of the incident and for sharing them.

[fireguy43 35]

Be patient...he has a very busy work schedule this week...and he took a ton of pics to process and upload....put it this way, it was the first time ever that he filled his memory up....and Bill has a "big hard drive"

Just eager to see x129K in action!

[x129K 1,393]

Just eager to see x129K in action!

Ohhhh boy!

[Guest]

Just eager to see x129K in action!

X129 in action really just kidding nice job at the fire Dan long night for all with the time change and all, from what im told the owner of this house had people brought in from Ireland to do the roofs ( yeah thats right more structures on property same roof style)

[markmets415 524]

Anyone know what happened to the Brewster rig, I saw a picture of the front tire missing??

[x129K 1,393]

Anyone know what happened to the Brewster rig, I saw a picture of the front tire missing??

Where?

[pfdfirefighter01 1]

the truck was used at a pond for a close water source in which they had to drive a distance across a yard, where they ended up getting stuck. while they were being towed out by hyatts garage the valve stem was supposably ripped off which caused the tire to go flat. lisi's came up to fix it in which the tire had to be removed to do so. the tire was brand new from what i was told, first time out with them on the truck

[FiftyOnePride 100]

I have never been a fan of the CAFS engines that are gaining popularity around here, always preferred to "do it the old, snotty way with water", but this would have been a great incident for CAFS application early ii, based on that research.

[ichie 3120 1]

BATTALION 4 Amenia, Sanford, Pine Plains, Millerton have CAFS, WASSAIC doesn't have one CAFS. I saw that picture of lot of ladder truck, they should call for CAFS. There to many fire truck like 30 truck, there was no room to park. Water not work, kick fire out foam can

[Guest]

the truck was used at a pond for a close water source in which they had to drive a distance across a yard, where they ended up getting stuck. while they were being towed out by hyatts garage the valve stem was supposably ripped off which caused the tire to go flat. lisi's came up to fix it in which the tire had to be removed to do so. the tire was brand new from what i was told, first time out with them on the truck

I witnessed the wole incident, brewster had a 4x4 engine that was being used as a water source in front of a pond. When they went to back out they were in a sort of down hill angle and the mud was very thick so they couldnt get out. Before hyatts hooked up to them they tried once again to back out, while doing that the front sucked down into the mud ripping the valve stem off. Once they were towed out by hyatts all they had left was the rim/hubcap, the tire was completely off.

[markmets415 524]

BATTALION 4 Amenia, Sanford, Pine Plains, Millerton have CAFS, WASSAIC doesn't have one CAFS. I saw that picture of lot of ladder truck, they should call for CAFS. There to many fire truck like 30 truck, there was no room to park. Water not work, kick fire out foam can

Richie you are correct, Wassaic does not have a CAFS pumper, however they do have two pumpers that have 20 gallon Class A Foam systems which work very well. We responded a few years back to Sharon CT and pumped Class A foam from 69-11 through Dover's Ladder to extinguish a silo fire which worked extremely well.

Millerton was called to the scene with their CAFS engine.

[markmets415 524]

Where?

Dan the picture was either on UV's website or the one Bobby B from Pawling had on facebook, can't access either from work.

Thanks PDFF'er and 67-13 for the info.

[Guest]

I have been researching these roofs since this fire..they are very popular over in the UK...a buddy of mine and fireman from Millbrook sent me a text...apparentrly what they do over in the UK is to soak the thacth with a heavy coat of foam to slow the burn, then work off an aerial to scrape away the straw material (which comes in 4, 12, or 18 inch thickness depending on the pitch of the roof - here we were confronted with a 12 inch layer) to the roof material itself, then proceed to vent.

This is obviously a time and manpower intensive operation.

I have never been a fan of the CAFS engines that are gaining popularity around here, always preferred to "do it the old, snotty way with water", but this would have been a great incident for CAFS application early ii, based on that research.

From what I have gathered and come up with (forgive me Dan I forgot to mention this before), the foam layer under the thatch is actually insulation (no brainer), but does have fire resistant properties. Sometimes you will find (from what I have read on UK articles) is foam with the same properties but similar to the foam we use to fill voids in concrete, can't think of the name. Also, most (used loosly), have vent doors on the roof itself under the thatch. This is a very time consuming operation to just vent the interior, but keep in mind that the fire on the roof is going to spread rather quickly, so an aggressive attack on the roof with foam will "buy" some time.

[x129K 1,393]

Bill has some more pics up on his site... www.fdphotounit.com