Westchester County Technical Rescue Team

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Just curious, can any of the Yonkers guys advise as to how many confined space, trench or collapse jobs there are on average in Yonkers on any given year?

Not drills or an M/A response outside the city. I'm wondering about actual jobs within the city.

[billfitz 109]

hey Bull - it is not about Yonkers we are not advertising a team to respond - if you go back to post 13 the County sent a fax out advertising their team - still no one wants to answer the questions about the County Team - and thats a lot of bull - no pun intended -lol

[JFLYNN 681]

Just curious, can any of the Yonkers guys advise as to how many confined space, trench or collapse jobs there are on average in Yonkers on any given year?

Not drills or an M/A response outside the city. I'm wondering about actual jobs within the city.

I will post this information tomorrow. It will be taken from our official run numbers.

Now, can anyone answer any of the questions we have regarding the "Westchester County Technical Rescue Team"...?

BTW, I will be answering your question but it is not actually germane to this discussion. The discussion is really about one multi-jurisdictional team vs. another multi-jurisdictional team. You and some others have chosen to single out Yonkers, not us. This tactic is often used by politicians and children when they are caught doing something wrong...it is referred to commonly as "blame shifting". "subterfuge", "blame the messenger" "answering a question with a question", etc.

[ladder55 26]

chief fitz maybe noone is answering you because they are not sure of the answer's. like i said earlier i saw a phone number and email address available for questions. you have tried to get your questions answered this way and its obviously not getting you anywhere so maybe try to go to the source.

[Bnechis 3,961]

There is nothing for me to get over. These guys are trying in good faith and it seems like you're hell bent on knocking them down.

Which guys are trying in good faith; the individuals who have volunteered there time to train or the individual or individual(s) who were tasked with developing the "team"?

The team is newly established, let the kinks work themselves out in time. If not then so be it. Instead of beating them up why not offer your help/training? If not you should worry about your own in-house issues before you try to tackle someone else's problem bro.

The County Legislature wanted "OVERSIGHT", that includes policies, procedures, rules, standards, etc. Most "Kinks" should have been worked out before "here we are ready to respond". Based on the silence we are not convinced they have been worked out.

Chief Fitz spent 100's of hours trying to help as did others from NRFD, YFD, the career chiefs, local 628 (Yonkers), Local 273 (NR) and the 5th District of the NYS Professional Firefighters, along with the volunteers and fire districts.

THe fact that our meetings were cancelled before we met our mandate or completed our mission statement is why we want our questions answered.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What would you EXPERTS say is a good response time? Lets say a trench rescue? Now if we are saying that, what does the VFD do on scene waiting for a TECH RESCUE TEAM. Can they Shore up the area? I think that is something one would do right? Obviously keep the scene secured, etc...

WSOTF set up that the 1st unit (squad) should be on scene in under 10-12 minutes with 5 trained ff's/1 trained officer. That shoring and most supplies could be onscene in 20-30 minutes with another 20-30 trained members/officers. and that could be doubled in another 30-40 minutes.

Even when trying to set up a system in the North West we were looking at only slightly longer times, particularly for additional resources.

What can a local dept. without equipment (& training) do? Stay back. 50% of all trench collapses have secondary collapses. If you enter an improperly shored trench there is a 50/50 chance you will die in it.

Can you shore it up? not without the right equipment. do you have the right equipment to handle the loads? If you think some cribbing and 2 backboards will do, good luck....the laws of physics are against you.

[Bnechis 3,961]

chief fitz maybe noone is answering you because they are not sure of the answer's. like i said earlier i saw a phone number and email address available for questions. you have tried to get your questions answered this way and its obviously not getting you anywhere so maybe try to go to the source.

At this point 11,177 people have viewed this thread. I find it hard to believe that none are in the know.

Maybe Chief Fitz should call the # and ask if the members meet the standards that were set for the team by the counties oversight committee....Oh wait. they never were allowed to set a standard.

I guess one was never established.

[Monty 35]

I'm still waiting for an answer on when this "Team" trains. Is anybody on here that is on the "Team" answer this?? I don't know, so I ask!!!

Training is regularly held one Sunday morning a month, one Wednesday evening a month and at other additional times.

If training requirements and other things could be standardized, isn't there a benefit to having the Type 4 team train and drill with the Type 3 team and both train and drill with Type 1/2 teams?

This would seem to be a great approach. It might also help with some of the questions brought up here. One of the first responses for the Capital District team was to Rockland for Hurricane Floyd. I'm not sure that Rockland had their own tech rescue team at that time - but there was certainly a lot of resources working in a coordinated manner.

[helicopper 1,050]

Questions for the Law Enforcement members on this forum!

I assume if you put Law Enforcement on your profile your either a PO or CO. not a Meter Reader! If you are a PO or CO are you part of a UNION? If so does the By-Laws have a line item for volunteering? This is not meant to cause problems its just a question because there are a few that I see are quick to jump on the Career FF's to support there VOl. issues. If that is the case then you all should not mind that there are things like Vol. PO's and CO's or even a ESU and Bomb Squad Vol. team.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but it seems like an effort to turn this into a volunteer vs. career debate. Members of both the volunteer and career (and some who are members of BOTH) communities are stating their case and/or asking questions. Your question about law enforcement unions and volunteering is being spun off into a new thread in the police forum to keep this thread on topic and give you the opportunity to have your question answered in the proper venue.

Despite strong opinions to the contrary expressed in this thread, I believe that the underlying issue here is that of training and response times not whether or not someone's receiving a paycheck for their service. If the members have the requisite training and equipment and can respond in a reasonable response time (as estabished by an objective panel of subject matter experts or national standards), I don't care what their truck or patch says. Now, if they can't or don't meet standards expected of such a resource, there is an issue.

[ex-commish 490]

Questions for the Law Enforcement members on this forum!

I assume if you put Law Enforcement on your profile your either a PO or CO. not a Meter Reader! If you are a PO or CO are you part of a UNION? If so does the By-Laws have a line item for volunteering? This is not meant to cause problems its just a question because there are a few that I see are quick to jump on the Career FF's to support there VOl. issues. If that is the case then you all should not mind that there are things like Vol. PO's and CO's or even a ESU and Bomb Squad Vol. team.

I always look at things objectively and don't get involved in a paid-volunteer issue but you can't raise a quesiton like this than make a statement that it is not meant to cause problems because there will be those who will deem it as an attack. Personally, I don't deem it as an attack as I respect all opinions and would never jump on anyone for expressing them. That aside, to my knowledge my union does not have any clause that addresses volunteering. I do not believe a union has the right to tell it's members what they can or can not do on thier time off. We live in a country that guarantees freedoms where many, including those who post on this board have fought to give us those freedoms. I also believe the issue here is training and manning capabilities where there have been some very good issues raised. Let's not make this a union issue.

[Raz 14]

Despite strong opinions to the contrary expressed in this thread, I believe that the underlying issue here is that of training and response times not whether or not someone's receiving a paycheck for their service.

The thing is, those two things go hand in hand. There are only so many hours in a week. Once you subtract sleeping, working, commuting, meals, and time with your family, the number of free hours in a week can start to look slim. Personnel that are compensated for their time gain an extra 30-40 hours a week to train, drill, maintain equipment, educate themselves, and be available to respond. That's well over 2,000 extra hours each year of dedicated time, and there's no way that someone can be expected to give away 2,000 hours of their time annually, no matter how dedicated they might be. There's nothing wrong with that, and nobody is faulting volunteers. However, it is a simple logistical impossibility that an all volunteer team could attain the same level of cohesion that an all paid team could.

Someone is going to take that as an insult, and I'm sorry because I don't mean it as one (and, in a way, I'm playing volunteer advocate here), but it is what it is. Even FASNY agrees, which is why they constantly fight the increase in mandatory training levels. It's unrealistic to place such lofty expectations on someone who's giving their free time.

There's nothing wrong with that. The odds are so stacked against volunteers that we have a ton of exemptions to state law when it comes to them, but instead of accepting the fact and working within realistic parameters, we get ridiculous bullheaded statements like "a volunteer is a professional, doing a professional's job for free." So in the end, who is disrespecting who?

[JFLYNN 681]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but it seems like an effort to turn this into a volunteer vs. career debate. Members of both the volunteer and career (and some who are members of BOTH) communities are stating their case and/or asking questions. Your question about law enforcement unions and volunteering is being spun off into a new thread in the police forum to keep this thread on topic and give you the opportunity to have your question answered in the proper venue.

Despite strong opinions to the contrary expressed in this thread, I believe that the underlying issue here is that of training and response times not whether or not someone's receiving a paycheck for their service. If the members have the requisite training and equipment and can respond in a reasonable response time (as estabished by an objective panel of subject matter experts or national standards), I don't care what their truck or patch says. Now, if they can't or don't meet standards expected of such a resource, there is an issue.

Ditto Chris

[JFLYNN 681]

The thing is, those two things go hand in hand. There are only so many hours in a week. Once you subtract sleeping, working, commuting, meals, and time with your family, the number of free hours in a week can start to look slim. Personnel that are compensated for their time gain an extra 30-40 hours a week to train, drill, maintain equipment, educate themselves, and be available to respond. That's well over 2,000 extra hours each year of dedicated time, and there's no way that someone can be expected to give away 2,000 hours of their time annually, no matter how dedicated they might be. There's nothing wrong with that, and nobody is faulting volunteers. However, it is a simple logistical impossibility that an all volunteer team could attain the same level of cohesion that an all paid team could.

Someone is going to take that as an insult, and I'm sorry because I don't mean it as one (and, in a way, I'm playing volunteer advocate here), but it is what it is. Even FASNY agrees, which is why they constantly fight the increase in mandatory training levels. It's unrealistic to place such lofty expectations on someone who's giving their free time.

There's nothing wrong with that. The odds are so stacked against volunteers that we have a ton of exemptions to state law when it comes to them, but instead of accepting the fact and working within realistic parameters, we get ridiculous bullheaded statements like "a volunteer is a professional, doing a professional's job for free." So in the end, who is disrespecting who?

Excellent point

[JFLYNN 681]

I always look at things objectively and don't get involved in a paid-volunteer issue but you can't raise a quesiton like this than make a statement that it is not meant to cause problems because there will be those who will deem it as an attack. Personally, I don't deem it as an attack as I respect all opinions and would never jump on anyone for expressing them. That aside, to my knowledge my union does not have any clause that addresses volunteering. I do not believe a union has the right to tell it's members what they can or can not do on thier time off. We live in a country that guarantees freedoms where many, including those who post on this board have fought to give us those freedoms. I also believe the issue here is training and manning capabilities where there have been some very good issues raised. Let's not make this a union issue.

Agreed and well said

[junior215 0]

How long did it take Eastchester to get the victim out of their recent trench collapse. 1-2hours??

I would venture a bet that this "team" would probably take that long to ASSEMBLE!!!!

In a county where we pay so much to live do we put our faith if services that MIGHT come.

What do you think people would say is the DPW could not guarantee snow removal 100% of the time of if their garbage was not picked up 100% of the time? No one seems to care that if you are having that once in a lifetime really aweful thing happen to you that help is not 100% guaranteed.

[Guest Firediver]

It can't be said any better than that junior. We are failing to see the point here. IT IS NOT AN ATTACK ON THE GUYS WHO HAVE VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS "TEAM"!!! It is the hype the DES advertises!!! Would you buy a BMW with a go-cart engine???? Why not? Its still a BMW?no? Its got everything everyother BMW has except the engine! Would you still buy it just to say "I have a BMW"????? Doubt it. If you can't/don't understand the point of "The Emperor has no clothes" I guess you never will. ATTABOY!!! to those who understand.(you too Chris)lol