Westchester County Technical Rescue Team

[x635 4,066]

I agree with your post, Chief. Greatpoint about the bomb squad.

WCDES's primary responsibilities are countywide COORDINATION, this element involves the state-mandated 60 Control, and TRAINING. Shouldn't they master both of those before they go into other endeavors? Now they do a million other things, but when I started my career, it was basically Walter, Maryln, the training field, and 60 Control. They've come a long way since then.........but I think they providing an uneccesary and wasteful service that is already provided in an excellent capacity. There's many ways for them to provide a support role, but if they want to play a primary role then they need to create a real department for that. As for the Haz-Mat team, I agree with you. Same with C&O. I don't know if it's improved since 2003, probaly not, but I used to struggle trying to get enough members to get them out.....sometimes couldn't even roll the truck or get members on the scene for the first hour or more. If there are to be "Countywide teams" such as this, why not get it overwith already and create a "Countywide Fire Department" that could better serve those people that are considered "underserved" by some on this thread? Nothing makes sense, and nothing ever changes. It's all about egos, home turf, and everyone wanting the latest toys.

If you ask questions or don't go along with the "cliques" in the county you're immediately outcasts and labeled a "basher". These same people can't fight for the people who dispatch them for better pay, better staffing, and better facilities? How is that NOT a priority????? Granted, they have come a long way in the past few years, but going to other dispatch facilties they are at least 10 years behind the best agencies.....where they should be because they have an excellent staff.

I think the answers will come when this team handles their first incidents.

[ajsbear 11]

Living in the northwestern most part of Westchester I figure WCDES, YOnkers whatever no one will be here for the first hour, we're on our own. Especially near rush hour. Did you ever try Route 9 from North State Road on north after 5? The new construction zone through Peekskill? Better chance bringing it up the river.

[dc2t 80]

Sorry for another post.

Let's not forget that New Rochelle, Greenville (NOT the Squad system or Town team, Greenville FD itself and itself only), and White Plains all have excellent teams and resources available as well.

Here's some photos of Greenville training with Yonkers, an excellent example of their interagency cooperation and some of their resources....including a dog.

http://www.emtbravo.lunarpages.com/SpecFea...aining0806.html

(*KEEP IN MIND ABOVE LINKED PHOTOS ARE 3+ YEARS OLD AND SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGED!*)

Why do you leave out the other 2 Greenburgh Depts?

[ajsbear 11]

Why would you need it? Every other department up there has a BRAND NEW RESCUE with all the newest BELLS and ROTO RAYS!

But no Collapse or Haz Mat units.

[helicopper 1,050]

Living in the northwestern most part of Westchester I figure WCDES, YOnkers whatever no one will be here for the first hour, we're on our own. Especially near rush hour. Did you ever try Route 9 from North State Road on north after 5? The new construction zone through Peekskill? Better chance bringing it up the river.

There's always the Taconic, there's always a police escort of a task force going somewhere else in the county, and there is always the pack mule option...

[ajsbear 11]

There's always the Taconic, there's always a police escort of a task force going somewhere else in the county, and there is always the pack mule option...

Still Chris, what do you think the response time is from the southern corner of the county to the northern reaches?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

JFLYNN, billfitz or whoever wants to answer this question:

What happens when the westchester carrer task force is busy, say a major incident happens across the entire region and the Westchetser Spec. Ops. Task Force units and personnel are preoccupied in their home cities, who should the IC in South Salem or Yorktown or Pound Ridge call in order to conduct collapse or other rescue operations? Don't all of these men and machines stay home first and only when not needed do they go out? Who will have the right tools to get the job done if for some reason you can not? NYC, NY USAR TF2, Stamford? Who will help them if you said you would but for some reason can't?

Im just asking a question not trying to start an arguement.

Edited March 10, 2009 by bvfdjc316

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Come to think of it, I saw somebody wearing a WCDES TECH RESCUE shirt last Tues night. I couldn't figure it out buy now I know. I wonder how long people have been wearing those shirts.

I think you have to leave the "What if's" and "what happens when" questions out of it. If you haven't brought it until now then it isn't that much of a concern.

I remember back in the day doing EMS in Yonkers when they switched to the wonderful SYSTEM STATUS MANAGEMENT to increase the units doing 911 to doing TXP calls. Many a day, they had no units available for 911 calls which to me was the most important thing. Anyway, I used to wish that there was some sort of disaster. I didn't want people to get hurt, I just wanted the EMS CO I worked for to realize how stupid it was to have all these units tied up on TXP's in The Bronx. It never happened Thank God, but I hope you all see where I am going.

I just want to know how long it would take to get any Rescue Team to a scene. I am fortunate enough to work and live 4min from 60 control. Is that where they turn out of?

[robert benz 344]

JFLYNN, billfitz or whoever wants to answer this question:

What happens when the westchester carrer task force is busy, say a major incident happens across the entire region and the Westchetser Spec. Ops. Task Force units and personnel are preoccupied in their home cities, who should the IC in South Salem or Yorktown or Pound Ridge call in order to conduct collapse or other rescue operations? Don't all of these men and machines stay home first and only when not needed do they go out? Who will have the right tools to get the job done if for some reason you can not? NYC, NY USAR TF2, Stamford? Who will help them if you said you would but for some reason can't?

Im just asking a question not trying to start an arguement.

ok I will bite, A major incident across the entire region, and only the career depts are going to be busy???? It somehow will miss all the depts that have members on the tech rescue team so that they wont be busy. HMMM ok it happened that way,

who were you as the IC going to call last week before this team was online??????

[billfitz 109]

Who said we had to resond from the southern tip of Westchester - how about White Plains, Greenburgh, Scarsdale -

Where can I sign up for the Volunteer Bomb Squad - just in case!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

JFLYNN, billfitz or whoever wants to answer this question:

What happens when the westchester carrer task force is busy, say a major incident happens across the entire region and the Westchetser Spec. Ops. Task Force units and personnel are preoccupied in their home cities, who should the IC in South Salem or Yorktown or Pound Ridge call in order to conduct collapse or other rescue operations? Don't all of these men and machines stay home first and only when not needed do they go out? Who will have the right tools to get the job done if for some reason you can not? NYC, NY USAR TF2, Stamford? Who will help them if you said you would but for some reason can't?

Im just asking a question not trying to start an arguement.

If the incident was that large, you wouldn't be able to get the DES volunteer team out either, everyone would be manning their home departments... So paid or vollie, you'd all basically be more less on your own.

Discussions like this make me glad we don't have county government in CT. We have the regional HAZMAT teams set up by DEMHS, but they consist of both career and volunteer staff that are held, to my knowledge, to distinct, formalized training standards through CFA (CT Fire Academy) You either are a rescue tech or you aren't. The only problem comes with the HAZMAT Tech (EPA vs. NFPA) but they are still trained/certified. Sounds to me like NY needs to really work on a standardized training and certification process, so that a volunteer firefighter and a career firefighter can honestly be compared in terms of certification.

As my boating instructor once said "You could have been sailing for 20 years, but that doesn't mean you have been doing it right." Experience doesn't always mean you do it the right way... Just something I think we should all consider in this discussion.

Edited March 10, 2009 by SageVigiles

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Who said we had to resond from the southern tip of Westchester - how about White Plains, Greenburgh, Scarsdale -

Where can I sign up for the Volunteer Bomb Squad - just in case!

Just see this guy, he will be the head of the Volunteer Bomb Squad.

And here are the Officers:

Yes, this is meant as a joke. If we all can't have a laugh every now and then we would all be miserable fu...... well you get the picture

[JFLYNN 681]

JFLYNN, billfitz or whoever wants to answer this question:

What happens when the westchester carrer task force is busy, say a major incident happens across the entire region and the Westchetser Spec. Ops. Task Force units and personnel are preoccupied in their home cities, who should the IC in South Salem or Yorktown or Pound Ridge call in order to conduct collapse or other rescue operations? Don't all of these men and machines stay home first and only when not needed do they go out? Who will have the right tools to get the job done if for some reason you can not? NYC, NY USAR TF2, Stamford? Who will help them if you said you would but for some reason can't?

Im just asking a question not trying to start an arguement.

The whole point here is that the "Westchester Tech Rescue Team" or whatever it's being called is not and most likely never will be viable. Whether or not other resources which actually are viable are available is immaterial. Not to mention that even when other resources are available, which is normally the case, the existence of this "team" will fool unknowing people into believing that they can do what they say they can do. So, they will be called...and they will get there when they get there...and the training levels will be whatever they will be...and the command structure will be what it will be...people will suffer and maybe even die...and when it's all over most everyone involved will convince themselves that they did a great job.

[billfitz 109]

At last years NYS HazMat leaders conference - I was told there was over 80 HazMat teams in NYS - I asked the following question - who certifies the teams - the answer I got from OFPC was "the honor system" thats comforting

[Bnechis 3,961]

Still Chris, what do you think the response time is from the southern corner of the county to the northern reaches?

Thats why WSOTF trained members in Lake Mohegan and tried to establish a squad company there as well as in Yorktown & Somers

[Bnechis 3,961]

I just want to know how long it would take to get any Rescue Team to a scene. I am fortunate enough to work and live 4min from 60 control. Is that where they turn out of?

Thats where the truck(s) are parked. Personnel can be turning out from the 4 corners of the empire.

WSOTF had 30+ responders onscene in Howthorne in 18 minutes, responding from Yonkers, Greenville & NR

[helicopper 1,050]

Still Chris, what do you think the response time is from the southern corner of the county to the northern reaches?

Factoring in the time to muster a crew and respond from Valhalla vs. on-duty crews responding from any of the SOTF jurisdictions, I'd say the response time concern is a wash.

Even if the crews are assembled, I'd say the response time from Valhalla or White Plains is going to be within a few minutes.

But, hey, this is just my opinion.

[billfitz 109]

Chris what do you mean by assembled? How is it a wash? Like Barry said with the tornado SOTF units where in Hawthorne in under 30 minutes probably faster than most members of the local dept. Does that mean they have prior notification of a disaster or emergency. From an ICS standpoint the mythical team with their mythical response time would have to respond to a central location to stage - even if it is not 60 control they can't just show up one at a time in their POV's - The only way they could be preassembled is to have them on duty all the time - and I think we call them - full time on duty professional firefighters.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Thats where the truck(s) are parked. Personnel can be turning out from the 4 corners of the empire.

WSOTF had 30+ responders onscene in Howthorne in 18 minutes, responding from Yonkers, Greenville & NR

Maybe I should have specified. I know where they are parked, I wanted to know how long it took to man them. Sorry for not being Clearer.

What would you EXPERTS say is a good response time? Lets say a trench rescue? Now if we are saying that, what does the VFD do on scene waiting for a TECH RESCUE TEAM. Can they Shore up the area? I think that is something one would do right? Obviously keep the scene secured, etc...

[INIT915 1,119]

What is the detail (ranks/numbers) of Yonkers personnel that can be sent out of district?

[billfitz 109]

stick to the issue bull - Chris mentioned pre-assembling to respond - w/o prior knowledge how would you do this unless you were on duty? I never mentioned Yonkers Bro! the elements of the SOTF are throughout the County. NO ONE WANTS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE - RESPONSE TIME, TRAINING LEVELS, NUMBER OF MEMBERS AVAILABLE TO RESPOND = PIPE DREAM. Its a feel good mentality - again many individuals put in many long hard hours the problem is "It won't work" - No one has answered the questions regarding the response of the County HazMat - why? Because that does not work. All of you in the fantasy world of WCDES want to make it a paid / vollie issue - get over it -

[abaduck 123]

Chris what do you mean by assembled? How is it a wash? Like Barry said with the tornado SOTF units where in Hawthorne in under 30 minutes probably faster than most members of the local dept. Does that mean they have prior notification of a disaster or emergency. From an ICS standpoint the mythical team with their mythical response time would have to respond to a central location to stage - even if it is not 60 control they can't just show up one at a time in their POV's - The only way they could be preassembled is to have them on duty all the time - and I think we call them - full time on duty professional firefighters.

Hang on Chief, what's the problem with POV response? The DES hazmat rig, for instance, can only hold (IIRC) 2 members, possibly with another two in the back, although (IIRC) that seating is not intended for use when the vehicle is moving. So I don't see how else members are supposed to respond, other than POV to the staging area. I can't imagine the tech rescue team will operate any differently.

And what's the deal with the WSOTF? Is there any reason why a suitably-trained full time on-call professional firefighter shouldn't be on that team? At the moment I'm in the process of applying to the County hazmat team, but the comments I'm seeing (from you and others) seem to suggest that some at least don't have confidence in its leadership and capabilities. Is the WSOTF so much better, when it comes to hazmat operations?

And for the record, I don't see any need for duplication of teams; it seems to me that Westchester needs ONE good tech rescue / hazmat organisation, which can draw on the best personel throughout the county, both career and volunteer.

[billfitz 109]

For ICS & accountability purposes they should respond w/ POV to staging area to check in and respond as a group - not respond directly to the scene one at time in POV's - local VFD's may operate that way but a specialized team coming in on Mutual aid could not possibly function that way.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

stick to the issue bull - Chris mentioned pre-assembling to respond - w/o prior knowledge how would you do this unless you were on duty? I never mentioned Yonkers Bro! the elements of the SOTF are throughout the County. NO ONE WANTS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE - RESPONSE TIME, TRAINING LEVELS, NUMBER OF MEMBERS AVAILABLE TO RESPOND = PIPE DREAM. Its a feel good mentality - again many individuals put in many long hard hours the problem is "It won't work" - No one has answered the questions regarding the response of the County HazMat - why? Because that does not work. All of you in the fantasy world of WCDES want to make it a paid / vollie issue - get over it -

There is nothing for me to get over. These guys are trying in good faith and it seems like you're hell bent on knocking them down. The team is newly established, let the kinks work themselves out in time. If not then so be it. Instead of beating them up why not offer your help/training? If not you should worry about your own in-house issues before you try to tackle someone else's problem bro. Did you ever get that boat up off Warburton ave?

I'll still take two of those t-shirts if ya got em.

[Guest Firediver]

I'm still waiting for an answer on when this "Team" trains. Is anybody on here that is on the "Team" answer this?? I don't know, so I ask!!!

Edited March 10, 2009 by Chris192
Off-topic comment removed.

[helicopper 1,050]

[MOD hat on] First a moderator note, do not engage in sniping comments directed at other members! These posts will be immediately deleted! This thread has been for the most part a lively discussion about the state of technical (USAR) rescue in Westchester County. There are issues about availability and response times but these do not make it a career vs. volunteer issue. Please stick to the issues and don't allow emotion to cloud your objectivity. Let's keep this a mature intelligent discussion - even if we agree to disagree! [MOD hat off]

Chris what do you mean by assembled? How is it a wash?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was referring strictly to driving time from Valhalla or White Plains and, yes, a crew would have to be on-duty to avoid delays in that response.

Shifting gears for a moment:

As for training standards, what are the minimum requirements for the SOTF aside from being an FF in a participating department?

For the SOTF members, speaking hypothetically because I realize policy is not set in an online forum, would the SOTF accept members from other fire departments (career or volunteer) if the individual FF met all the training requirements and was willing to meet any team requirements for assignment?

Are there any allied services represented on the SOTF (police, EMS, engineers, etc.)?

If training requirements and other things could be standardized, isn't there a benefit to having the Type 4 team train and drill with the Type 3 team and both train and drill with Type 1/2 teams?

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

I'm still waiting for an answer on when this "Team" trains. Is anybody on here that is on the "Team" answer this?? I don't know, so I ask!!!

Yes you may not know therefore you ask but your post is full of condescension and contempt. Why the need to put the word team in quotation marks as if to imply that they're not really a team at all.

[JFLYNN 681]

What is the detail (ranks/numbers) of Yonkers personnel that can be sent out of district?

Unfortunately and maybe because Bill Fitz and myself have been vocal about this issue, this has sort have become a Yonkers vs. Volunteer Firefighters issue. It is not. As mentioned previously, Mohegan, Somers and Yorktown were all asked to participate in the WSOTF but declined stating basically that the volunteers wanted their "own" team and wanted to be in charge of it.

At the recent incident in Eastchester, the WSOTF responded (I wasn't there) which Yonkers was a part of. By all accounts, Eastchester was the IC throughout the incident and all departments, including YFD, played their appropriate role.

At the tornado in Hawthorne, I was the on call Deputy Chief in Yonkers and I received the call from our dispatchers that 60 Control was frantically requesting "Yonkers" to respond to a large building collapse with people trapped. I immediately authorized a task force of approximately 25 trained Rescue personnel who arrived in 15-20 minutes from the initial call. We also immediately began recalling off duty personnel to backfill these positions. We were prepared to send more on duty personnel to Hawthorne if necessary.

The WSOTF is inclusive of many departments and could have had volunteer representation but the volunteers declined. Yonkers is the largest department and we have worked hard to provide training and resources which are available to us. Many other departments have also shared their training and equipment assets- the system in place works well.

What is very, very sad is that the WSOTF could actually expand on our capabilities and provide an even better service to the citizens of Westchester and in fact the entire NY Metro area but for years we have had little or no cooperation from most in the volunteer service and many times intentional political roadblocks have been put in our way by these groups.

This probably explains the frustration of my friend Chief Fitz as he has worked as hard as anyone on developing the WSOTF and he has firsthand probably more than anyone the hypocrisy of certain members of the volunteer fire service in regard to this issue.

Of course everyone knows I am far more diplomatic and lovable than Chief Fitz- heck, you don't even have to call me Chief or anything...but he's 100% correct in his views on this issue, in my humble opinion.

He just needs to maybe QTIP a little bit too.

[Guest Firediver]

It's all how you look at it Bull. Plus I don't know the exact name!

Edited March 11, 2009 by Firediver

[billfitz 109]

Well we might as well move on if no one wants to answer the questions raised regarding the County HazMat & Tech Rescue Team we should all put on our rose colored glasses and have a nice day!