The Case of the Fake Fire Hydrant?

[FIRECHIEF63 55]

Everyone,

Here is a great article to prove the need to educate and be aware of what your district has in it... It is obvious that this fire department does not know their fire district very well after they spent precious time trying to hook to a fire hydrant in the story and then had to disconnect and shift to a water shuttle operations to make water available to put out the fire... Or are they just looking for reasons why they lost the entire structure in this fire???

The issue in this article is not the Fake Fire Hydrant or the Attempted Insurance Fraud the Chief mentions, but that he didn't or for that fact apparently nobody in the district knew their district well enough to not realize this was not a real hydrant.

Knowing your district is important... Obviously this district didn't know theirs very well...

Click the link below to read the entire story;

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/a...46&id=62775

What do you all think???

Edited February 18, 2009 by FIRECHIEF63

[Oswegowind 17]

My neighbor in Buchanan has one at the back of his property next to his garage...it is painted the opposite colors of the regular Buchanan hydrants...head and trunk being opposite the regular ones, colors are identical! Heads up BFD1054!

[Guest]

And the fact they claim it took 15 minutes to hook in, realize there was no water flowing, and disconnect...

[Dondestro 9]

Well First off 10-15 min hooking and unhooking from a hydrant...if it dosen't work and no other hydrants there send next in engine to water source then drop a folda tank or 2- 50ft lines to hook up too.

second-I have a customer i plow for who has a nyc style hydrant at the end of there driveway for decoration, but I could almost list all 72 tank-dry hydrants we have in our town and i know this is not one, on top of it we don't have any pressurized hydrants other then a selct few private comm. and shopping centers.

Third- how about testing hydrants? we are in the process of doing that for this year as we do at the begining of every year and sometimes throughout if the levels of lakes and ponds change. A suggestion for that chief GET OUT AND TEST HYDRANTS!!!!!

[ny10570 745]

We've got it easy, with few exceptions all hydrants are all the same style and a standard color scheme. However if someone decided to add one that matched the system I doubt anyone would notice before hooking up. The distribution of hydrants is too random.

[AFS1970 504]

We have two old hydrants painted red, white and blue in front of the firehouse. They are next to pushes and clearly part of the plantings.

However, isn't making sure the hydrant flows water, why you are supposed to open it up, then close it again BEFORE HOOKING UP THE HOSE, and before the rig drives away.

This is less about knowing your district, because any hydrant can be out of service at any time, and more about knowing how to hook up to a hydrant.

[Medic137 6]

However, isn't making sure the hydrant flows water, why you are supposed to open it up, then close it again BEFORE HOOKING UP THE HOSE, and before the rig drives away.

Isn't this also done to flush any rust / crud onto the ground rather than into the hose? NOTE: I'm not a FF. It just seems like common sense.

[FIRECHIEF63 55]

This post I made has done exactly what I wanted it to do, invoke interesting comments.

Thanks for all the replies and keep them coming folks.

[helicopper 1,050]

"People install these for decoration or for the convenience of their pets," Snodgrass said. "If the fire department is not notified about it, to us -- even our trained eye -- this fire hydrant looks like a real true fire hydrant."

Do people really install real fire hydrants as puppy potties? Come on, really?

Sounds like the FD should lobby for standards for the fire hydrants and their paint schemes in their district whether in a devleopment or otherwise so decorations can be distinguished from water supply.

[smwells 7]

From the way the neighbor was talking in the video, she didnt know it wasn't real.. I am guessing the FD should know if the area has a Hydrant and where? Wet/Dry, Public/Private. I would think the FD would be aware of it..

I am not with the FD, the district I am in does not have hydrants except dry ones that the FD has documented.

[Beekman 5]

I've been fighting a battle for over 7 years about "flushing hydrants". It's not even so much knowing your District but what about mutual aid and you knowing what they have and them knowing what you have? The sad thing is that NFPA 291 is largely ignored even by "Authoritys". You have a standard for color coding and I've found very places that actually follow it.

As for the NYS Fire Code requirement for flow testing annually....lol Good Luck! I wouldn't test any hydrant unless you have permission from the owner. The exact section of the Penal Law you could be charged with is "Theft of Services".

[x129K 1,393]

Well......if any mutual aid department TRIES to hook up to the hydrant by the sign at Dover Station 1...welll.....don't expect to be getting any water!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Do people really install real fire hydrants as puppy potties? Come on, really?

Yep...there is one a block from my house. Lucky we don't use NYC hydrants panted black and located at the back end of the driveway. I know of atleast 2 others in NR.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Do people really install real fire hydrants as puppy potties? Come on, really?

I thought the same thing when I read that! What about female dogs? Someones' gonna complain.

Our FD SOG's say we will flush every hydrant before attaching the supply line. This was overlooked and fell by the wayside for a few years until we laid 1200 ft. of LDH and the hydrant was OOS. It still doesn't solve forward lay issues, unless you make the hydrant man flow water before laying the line, but at least you'll know there's no water before you commit to a tank water attack. We open the main steamer, flow some water to make sure A) there is water, no broken stem or frozen valve and it clears the cans and craps from the the barrel. We then connect a 2.5" gate valve to one side port, and then supply line off the main steamer. We found that in the heat of the moment once the steamers' hooked the hydrant gets opened and the gate valve lays on the sidewalk. With the gate valve we can adapt up to LDH if we need to (and if the hydrant is capable), and if we do break the hydrant stem (we do this at least once a year it seems) we can apply a hose clamp while flowing water to relieve some pressure, then close the gate valve and disconnect the engine before the water company arrives.

Edited February 20, 2009 by antiquefirelt

[AFS1970 504]

... I am guessing the FD should know if the area has a Hydrant and where? Wet/Dry, Public/Private. I would think the FD would be aware of it...

We had a call in town the other day where the incoming Chief did not know about a new hydrant that had been recently installed and the first due Engine Officer did. So these things happen.

... The sad thing is that NFPA 291 is largely ignored even by "Authoritys". You have a standard for color coding and I've found very places that actually follow it...

Most opt for something high visibility like Yellow or Red. Although I remember the in thing was to paint them like soldiers for the Bicentenial in 1976. The town my Grandmother lived in had Black fire hydrants.

...Our FD SOG's say we will flush every hydrant before attaching the supply line. This was overlooked and fell by the wayside for a few years until we laid 1200 ft. of LDH and the hydrant was OOS...

We had a fire in town several years ago, where this was an issue. The worst part is that when Plan A doesn't work, some IC's are very slow to find a Plan B, no matter if that is Tankers or another hydrant or a drafting site.

[Dondestro 9]

here is an idea i had a few months back.

I decidedto make a map of hydrant locations that we would be able to print out/ or at best be able to give online access to our mutual aid departments. o found google maps to be perfect and came out with this New Fairfield Hydrant maps

If you zoom in on map you are able to see pretty close to pin point locations of each one, it tells you what size hook up it is what size tank it is and in most cases nearest cross street. if a new location is set up i update it as well as if a hydrant is O.O.S.

[ny10570 745]

Isn't this also done to flush any rust / crud onto the ground rather than into the hose? NOTE: I'm not a FF. It just seems like common sense.

not so much rust and sludge, more about cans or other garbage people seem to need to shove down a hydrant.

[AFS1970 504]

here is an idea i had a few months back.

I decidedto make a map of hydrant locations that we would be able to print out/ or at best be able to give online access to our mutual aid departments. o found google maps to be perfect and came out with this New Fairfield Hydrant maps

If you zoom in on map you are able to see pretty close to pin point locations of each one, it tells you what size hook up it is what size tank it is and in most cases nearest cross street. if a new location is set up i update it as well as if a hydrant is O.O.S.

Pretty cool set up. Nice idea using google maps, so that anyone with a laptop & internet access can view it. We have this on our city map that is part of the MDT system. It shows the hydrants in the NFPA colors, and you can click on the hydrants to see the size of the water main. It also has any yard hydrants that we know about marked in yellow, but they are really not usable. I know the two in my apartment complex are painted shut and probably have not been tested or maintained or even flowed at all in the 15 years I have lived there.

Maybe you could put any decorative hydrants that you know about on there in black with a tag that says DO NOT USE - WILL NOT FLOW WATER.

BTW - You might want to use a smaller picture of a hydrant if you can, that map is pretty crowded looking until you zoom in.

Edited February 20, 2009 by BFD182

[irishfire2491 24]

All I have to say is PRE-PLAN, PRE-PLAN, PRE-PLAN know your district inside and out so you dont make little mistake like this!!!

[minivac 0]

isnt there a law against this??

[smwells 7]

I have seen several areas where they have painted the maltese cross on the pavement with an arrow pointing to the hydrant.

I presume it helps in the event of inclement weather (hydrant covered in snow, etc.). Not sure if the FD took on this effort or the local town, but certainly they wouldn't go this extra step to mark where "Sparky lifts his leg" in someones front yard without checking first.