Protective Hoods - Yay or Nay

[Guest]

Don't want to beat this thing to death, but I was looking at the picture that robert benz posted with the firefighter holding the hood, and it made me think even a little further. The gentleman in that picture had his wedding ring on, and that made me think of my wife and kids. I want to be around for them ,and see my kids grow old and see my grandchildren. And retire healthy. Just a thought. Be safe!

With the damage being located on the sides, it looks like his turnout coat was unable to protect the hood from the extreme heat. This is either due to the collar being damaged, helmet flaps being up, or the hood being used for an oil rag as you suggested earlier. I agree that the nomex does clean the dipstick very well but my officers stated it is not the best idea. Can you tell me where you saw that you can do this? I want to prove to them it is a proven meathod of use. Thanks.

[x134 46]

With the damage being located on the sides, it looks like his turnout coat was unable to protect the hood from the extreme heat. This is either due to the collar being damaged, helmet flaps being up, or the hood being used for an oil rag as you suggested earlier. I agree that the nomex does clean the dipstick very well but my officers stated it is not the best idea. Can you tell me where you saw that you can do this? I want to prove to them it is a proven meathod of use. Thanks.

What?????????

[robert benz 344]

Capt Benz

Great pic I go t to see that hood first hand the other day the picture doesent do it justice--let me tell you that was one lucky member of FDNR to only escape with burns on his ears. This was a typical a 2 story home in a nice residential section of New Rochelle--as they say a "bread and butter" type fire. Things happened fast--good training and good instinces prevented this incident from being disasterous.

The one question I do have- Is Jacobi that much closer the the Westchester Medical Center?? Jacobi only has a burn unit while the Medical Center has the Burn Center with a class one trama center?? Was the patient transport a fd decision or a EMS decision?? just courious

Just glad everyone got to go home to their loved ones that night

Walter, our ems folks, transcare, have told us in advance any MOS serious injury, straight to Jacobi, and we have received fast treatment when we did have to go and for us yes it is quicker

[Danger 160]

I don't buy the 18 year old kids saying they don't wear it so they can "feel the heat." That's like lighting a match to see how full your gas can is. I have my hood on top of my pants so it's the first thing that goes on my head, for every single call. Okay, maybe EMS I'll throw it in a pocket. Hood up, flaps down, I've got a long career ahead of me

[Bnechis 3,961]

or you can learn the signs of when its going to get bad and get out , personally i wear my hood and my earflaps, been burned befor, NOT FUN

In the case with the pic. There were no signs. Backdraft forced the ceiling down in the next room from where the member was operating.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The one question I do have- Is Jacobi that much closer the the Westchester Medical Center?? Jacobi only has a burn unit while the Medical Center has the Burn Center with a class one trama center?? Was the patient transport a fd decision or a EMS decision??

9.98 miles to Jacobi from the fire scene

15.91 miles to WMC

NYS says closest apropriate facility. And both FD & EMS agree

[markmets415 524]

I don't buy the 18 year old kids saying they don't wear it so they can "feel the heat." That's like lighting a match to see how full your gas can is. I have my hood on top of my pants so it's the first thing that goes on my head, for every single call. Okay, maybe EMS I'll throw it in a pocket. Hood up, flaps down, I've got a long career ahead of me

I keep mine right inside my helmet, under the webbing.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Im having a hard time understanding what took place here. Ive heard it described as a fire in the bsmt, a fire traveling the duct work, a mini backdraft, & a backdraft. Can any of the brothers from New Rochelle who were on scene describe in detail exactly what took place, and how the injured brother got caught up in it please.

[helicopper 1,050]

The one question I do have- Is Jacobi that much closer the the Westchester Medical Center?? Jacobi only has a burn unit while the Medical Center has the Burn Center with a class one trama center?? Was the patient transport a fd decision or a EMS decision?? just courious

Just glad everyone got to go home to their loved ones that night

Jacobi is a regional (level 1) trauma and burn center (adult and pediatric) and has hyperbaric services and venomous bite treatment in case you get burned and bit.

As for New Rochelle, it is an area trauma center and doesn't have a burn unit so if my head caught fire it wouldn't be my first choice of destinations.

Your line in bold print is the most important point! Though injured, the firefighter wearing that hood will be able to go home!!! Without the hood, he could have suffered disfiguring burns that require multiple surgeries, long sick leave, etc.

Captain Benz, please convey our best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured brother.

[robert benz 344]

Im having a hard time understanding what took place here. Ive heard it described as a fire in the bsmt, a fire traveling the duct work, a mini backdraft, & a backdraft. Can any of the brothers from New Rochelle who were on scene describe in detail exactly what took place, and how the injured brother got caught up in it please.

Paul, the fire started in the basement in the area of the gas burner, enclosed area, traveled up the duckwork to the first and second floors. members found fire showing at the ceiling level in the basement in the area of the furnace room. at about the same time members found fire in the walls and coming thru the floor of the kitchen. the floor fire, turned out to be a floor vent. the fire was spotted in the walls with a TIC. after knocking that down, the TIC found fire in a ceiling bay about 180 degrees away from the floor / wall fire in the kitchen. that bay contained the chase for the ductwork for the gas burner. here it gets a little different, it seems the bay was used as the duct, as only 2 sheets of metal ductwork were found after the backdraft. Talking to contractors, it wasnt uncommon to use the wood ceiling joists to act as the channel or ductwork. they blocked off the end of 2 bays with sheetmetal pieces to direct it upstairs. they put 2 sheets the length of the bay on the bottom to act as the 4th side. The fire traveled up third bay toward the livingroom and also back towards the kitchen.

We think 3 things happened all about the same time A member opened up the bay in the kitchen, the crew using a 2 1/2 in the basement found the vertical channel leading up to the first floor, and a member took a window remote from all of this on the second floor.

At the same time that the ceiling blew down in the livingroom, (no one was in there at the time) a fireball blew out the second floor window on the 2/3 corner when a member took that window. when all was done there was almost no sign of fire in that room where the fireball blew out off.

We had members search the second floor with no signs of weakness in the hallway at the top of the stairs, after the backdraft / smoke explosion, the floor was gone at the top of the stairs, which was right over the livingroom / kitchen bay that blew down the sheetrock ceiling.

So Paul to make a long story longer, We think because the ceiling bays were used a flue, the fact you had combustible wood on 3 sides with heavy char, smoke built up to the explosive range, and found the oxygen it needed when the hole was made in the kitchen ceiling. As far as the 2nd floor I dont remember if a floor vent was near that window that vented as that might be why there was a fireball out that window at the sametime.

hope this answers some of your questions.

[abaduck 123]

I would feel naked in a car with no seatbelt. I'd feel equally naked in a structure fire with no hood. I can't imagine myself doing either. That's how I was trained.

Special thanks to Capt. Benz for a very relevant contribution.

Oh, and anyone who doesn't bother with the hood at car fires - see some of those videos showing what happens when water meets burning magnesium...

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Capt. Benz

Thanks for the detailed info. Thats interesting how the bays were modified to act a s a flue system, what a way to have rapid undected fire spread. The 3 things you mentioned happening simoutaneously would have probably had no negative effects if they occured independently of each other. Thats what amazes me about this business anything can happen at any given time. Again, thanks for the info definately a learning experience, and a speedy recovery to the injured Brother.

[firecapt32 282]

I wasent arguing any point about the transpoprtantion of the injured fire fighter as long as the proper care is given and everyone is satisified. I am glad that the procedure in New Rochelle is to have your hoods on when you "go to work" at a job. We can only hope that one day every firefighter will go home after every job!! till that day arrives be carefull out there. do your job--do it right--go home to your loved ones.

[cbryson 0]

that bay contained the chase for the ductwork for the gas burner. here it gets a little different, it seems the bay was used as the duct, as only 2 sheets of metal ductwork were found after the backdraft. Talking to contractors, it wasnt uncommon to use the wood ceiling joists to act as the channel or ductwork. they blocked off the end of 2 bays with sheetmetal pieces to direct it upstairs. they put 2 sheets the length of the bay on the bottom to act as the 4th side.

That system was common years ago for the return duct for a hot air system only.

Edited February 23, 2009 by xfirefighter484x

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Is it possible the heating system was changed over from a hot air sysyem? Possibly some renovations occured and this was never addressed?