Black Sunday Verdict

[M' Ave 1,466]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02132009/news/...aths_155001.htm

A terrible day for the safety of firemen everywhere. Sad that no justice will be had for the families of the deceased members and sad that we as firemen will continue to be put in jeopardy by thoughtless tenants and landlords who will do whatever they please. The court has seemingly set a precedent that tenants and building owners can't be held responsible for conditions they created in the event of a Fr's death.

Edited February 13, 2009 by M' Ave

[x129K 1,393]

Unfriggin' Real. God Bless the FDNY

[TSull 33]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02132009/news/...aths_155001.htm

A terrible day for the safety of firemen everywhere. Sad that no justice will be had for the families of the deceased members and sad that we as firemen will continue to be put in jeopardy by thoughtless tenants and landlords who will do whatever they please. The court has seemingly set a precedent that tenants and building owners can't be held responsible for conditions they created in the event of a Fr's death.

It is a sad and unfortunate verdict. My heart breaks again for my brothers. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Shameful and disgusting.....

hopefully the owners, who should have been responsible for the condition of the building and keeping it up to fire code should be found guilty....

But we need to wait and see what the outcome of that one is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion...tml?_r=1&hp

[Truck4 48]

I hope everyone watched the news and saw the tenants dancing out of the courtroom, cheering.

[x129K 1,393]

I hope everyone watched the news and saw the tenants dancing out of the courtroom, cheering.

FTM :angry:

Edited February 13, 2009 by x129K

[ny10570 745]

I hope everyone watched the news and saw the tenants dancing out of the courtroom, cheering.

Do something that winds up being directly contributing to the death or two people and get away with, how would you leave the courtroom? Thats about what I would expect.

[Steve 78]

I am not surpirsed. What more can you expect from a Bronx Jury and Robert Johnson (Bx DA).

[Pudge3311 5]

I forsee a lot of defensive operations.

[Just a guy 493]

a true travesty of justice... these animals should have been found guilty it's unreal .. I'm so angry about this !!!!!!!!

[DR104 141]

I am not surpirsed. What more can you expect from a Bronx Jury and Robert Johnson (Bx DA).

I 2nd that!!! And in the case of anything in the Bronx its always somebody else fault!!!!!!!!!!! If that case was up in Westchester you would have a different outcome. GUILTY

[nycemt728 49]

Two words, CIVIL SUIT; perhaps some comfort will come from that.

Now, Dr 104, Steve and anyone else who cares to follow suit... blame the DAs for improperly arguing the case or choosing the wrong charge, blame the folks who got off, hell even blame jury, but hold them responsible as human beings and citizens... please don't dump on my home b/c of the verdict!

[FFPCogs 863]

Unbelievable and what a legal tactic..shift blame onto the FDNY itself for their "chaotic" response. Why hold people accountable for violating building codes or creating unsafe conditions....that's the FD's problem if there's a fire right? Just another example of how expendable we all really are in the public's mind. I'm sure all the defendants and their (expletive) lawyers slept quite soundly last nite as the families of these dedicated firemen suffered through yet another injustice. It makes me sick.

My deepest sympathty to the families and the FDNY not only for the loss of the guys, but for the utter contempt and ignorance of the jury.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[spyda308 11]

Those tenants and that building owner should die a horrible death.....I usually don't get this hateful, but this is BULLS***!!!

I really feel bad for the FDNY and those families. UnFriggin' Real...

Edited February 14, 2009 by spyda313

[hudson144 150]

As I read this in disbelief it makes you wonder what kind of society are we out there protecting. This was a big setback for all in the fire service,whats next? We all bust our *** to do the right thing knowing the hazards of our job to help others.Total disrespect for those who have paid with their lives! Is it all worth it???

[sr71 1]

This is appalling......... just appalling.

[SHAC7301 0]

This is typical, unfortunately, for a Bronx jury.....

[nycemt728 49]

Anyone care to slam the brooklyn jury who aquitted Officer Timoshenko's killer???? Come on guys, twelve folks who made in improper decison does not represent the borough or those living there, and frankly I'm tired of those venting their anger insinuating such.

[FFPCogs 863]

Anyone care to slam the brooklyn jury who aquitted Officer Timoshenko's killer???? Come on guys, twelve folks who made in improper decison does not represent the borough or those living there, and frankly I'm tired of those venting their anger insinuating such.

Agreed,

But it is indicative of a society that thinks that a firefighter's death is a part of the job regardless of the conditions leading to that outcome. Or worse a society that views anyone in uniform as an enemy who got what they deserved, because in some circles we are seen as just that.

Cogs

[Steve 78]

nycemt728, please do not take comments personal.

I am speaking from experince as a Det. working in the Bronx for a number of years.

Infact I would like to share one of many experinces that I had in the Bronx court system.

I was in narcotics working a buy and bust operation. An undercover PO (UC) walks in to the lobby of a building on Walton Ave. The UC approaches a subject and purchases one glassine of heroin with a marked $10.00 bill. The UC then leaves the building and walks around the corner to his car. He then gives the field team a description of the subject. All this time another UC was standing across the street from the building making sure nobody had walked out of the building. The team then moves in and apprehends the subject in the lobby. Found on the subject at time of arrest, was one additonial matching glassine of herion and the pre recorded buy money ($10.00). The subject is then brought outside, at which time the UC does a drive buy and confirms that this is the individual that sold him the heroin. As a narc cop, you say to yourself , this is a great case. We recovered the cash and matching stash, ID was made within 5 minutes. One week later the case goes to the Grand Jury, now remember the grand jury is not seated to convist or not to convict. They are seated to determine if there is enough evidence for this case to proceed further with an indictment. Myself and UC testified as to what happened that day. The subject also did testify, stating that he also walked into the building to purchase one glassine from an unknown indivdual. He had given this individual a twenty dollar bill and in return he got a ten dollar bill as change. That ten dollar bill of course, being the recorded buy money. The grand jury believed this poor drug dealer and would not give take into consideration the testimony of a sworn undercover P.O.. They did not indict him and he walked. The case died there and did not even go to trial.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Steve

[ny10570 745]

nycemt, if it makes you feel better ignorant people make up the majority everywhere. The Bronx does not have some magical border that keeps all the idiots within the borough. However, these 12 people represent you and your neighbors, so technically if you agree that these 12 are idiots then you agree that the Bronx is chock full of idiots and therefore people can continue to paint the entire borough as such.

[Guest]

I wonder if this was a drug dealers home that was boobie trapped if the out come would have been different?? I guess the jury thought the people did not intend to harm the firefighters . Like it was said maybe the civil suit will be different but nothing will bring these brothers back to us!!!!

[spyda308 11]

What I want to know is how does the jury, the judge and the defending attorney(for the tenants) sleep at night? I mean really? They just let the Fallen Brothers heroic actions of that day to be disgraced, doing a job they do not have the balls to do. I am just losing faith in society, im an optomist, but come on, this just sends the wrong message...

Edited February 15, 2009 by spyda313

[ny10570 745]

This happens every day. Everything from Ponzi scheme operators to murders to petty criminals. Defense attorneys are there to protect the accused. Remember, not everyone taken to court is guilty. Police and prosecutors are not immune to mistakes. The jury did what they though is right. The average american is not that bright and not well educated. If its not on TV we don't know about it. The judge has nothing to do with deciding guilt or innocence. Get out and experience the world before you decide to give up on society. If you think the courts are so screwed up, go and sit in on some trials. Watch a prosecutor try pin a paper thin case on someone and then watch a jury toss a easy conviction because it didn't happen like it does on CSI.

[spyda308 11]

This happens every day. Everything from Ponzi scheme operators to murders to petty criminals. Defense attorneys are there to protect the accused. Remember, not everyone taken to court is guilty. Police and prosecutors are not immune to mistakes. The jury did what they though is right. The average american is not that bright and not well educated. If its not on TV we don't know about it. The judge has nothing to do with deciding guilt or innocence. Get out and experience the world before you decide to give up on society. If you think the courts are so screwed up, go and sit in on some trials. Watch a prosecutor try pin a paper thin case on someone and then watch a jury toss a easy conviction because it didn't happen like it does on CSI.

very good point, but it still doesnt change the fact that this does make you stop and think, what kind of standards are we holding people up to if they can do whatever they want, with no reguard for human life or anybody else, then get aquitted? I mean really, did you watch the news? when they showed the tenants, they acted like they were the "ones who were wronged" here, crying and holding their arms up like "hallejuah", right in front of the families of the guys who went in there to try and save them, and tradgically passed away because of their carelessness, want a bunch of savages, utter Bulls***!

[Guest pentax02839]

what im reading it is not my fault.blame someone else for my stupity.this just makes me very mad.

[10-Buff-4 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/nyregion...tml?_r=1&hp

Thank God. Justice has been served.

-Joe DA BUFF

Bronx Landlords Guilty in 2 Firefighters’ Deaths

By JOHN ELIGON

Published: February 18, 2009

The owner and former owner of a Bronx apartment building where two firefighters died jumping from a blaze in 2005 were found guilty Wednesday of criminally negligent homicide.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Well, some justice at least. Too bad it had to be the "second jury". God bless our lost souls.