While we're on the topic of "Old-Style Numbering"...

[Guest]

Here's a piece of trivia, while everyone is still talking about the reasoning behind "60-Control", "40-Control", "Dispatcher 14-XX", etc...

Why, long ago, did many Dutchess County Departments number their apparatus with consecutive 3-digit numbers? For example, Pleasant Valley had Rescue 163, Engines 165, 166, 167, 168, Tanker 169, etc.. and Millbrook followed a similar sequence with 210, 211, etc....

Any ideas? I've heard one rumor... but I'll keep that to myself until I hear some others....

Thanks

[x129K 1,393]

Not every department used the numbers like that...I know Wassaic did...they were the 220's...Union Vale was 400's i think - the old Thiebault was 411??

Arlingotn didnt as far as I know - they were Engine 1, 2, 3, etc.....

Millbrook had;

210 - Tanker, now 49-31

211 - Ford C Cab engine, refurned, then sold. My favorite peice from back then.

213 - The old rescue, which is now serving in Beekman!

214 - Ahhh...214...the first fire engine I ever rode in to a call...a Ward LaFrance Ultravision....100 percent bad a** engine...

215 - the OLD brush truck, I think they still have it...the first apparatus I ever qualified to drive...we ran A TON of grass fires that year...thanks Heidi Otto!

There is NO doubt that today's numbering system is heads and shoulders above the old!

[NWFDMedic 58]

Maybe you can inform Orange County how much better your numbering system works. We seem to still be stuck in the dark ages.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I have the Scanner Master frequency guide for Southern NYS and NYC. I'll have to look at it since it had a lot of information on it. If its the old way of things I'll post some of the info.

[tdc202 0]

I remember that system and Glenham was 360,361 and I forget what the brush truck was. They were the only ones in Southern Dutchess that used it back then . I thought it had something to do with the old computers KED-348 had

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I know Ulster County uses the following designation, or at least they did 8 years ago when I moved from there.

X-YY-ZZ

X = Unit designation

R= Rescue

E= Engine

M= Miscellaneous

etc.

YY= Department Number

(Marlboro's was 38, don't know any others)

ZZ = Unit number in that department, in Marlboro it went by 10's

Example: R-38-60 Marlboro Rescue 60

[Guest EFFP411]

I know Ulster County uses the following designation, or at least they did 8 years ago when I moved from there.

X-YY-ZZ

X = Unit designation

R= Rescue

E= Engine

M= Miscellaneous

etc.

YY= Department Number

(Marlboro's was 38, don't know any others)

ZZ = Unit number in that department, in Marlboro it went by 10's

Example: R-38-60 Marlboro Rescue 60

Ulster has also gotten away from the Letter/number combo as far as Apparatus is concerned, Because I know that Highland's trucks are just numbers, IE: 31-10 is an engine, 31-60 is the rescue, etc. Their Numbering system is similar to Dutchess' system, until you get into ambulances, or Chief's cars... Their Particular Chief's numbers are Car 31A, 31B, 31C, etc. What the significance is I haven't the foggiest, other than assuming "Car A" is the Chief, and B and C are Assistnant?? I still quite haven't figured out the Ambulance numbers, other than knowing which one it is by dealing with them before...

[markmets415 524]

I have no idea why it was that way but Wassaic had 225, 226, 227, 228 and 229, and yes they were red.

225

226

227

228

229

Well were did have two blue trucks with the old numbers.

Current 69-11, was 227 when it was delivered

And our old tanker

[Turborich 12]

Ulster has also gotten away from the Letter/number combo as far as Apparatus is concerned, Because I know that Highland's trucks are just numbers, IE: 31-10 is an engine, 31-60 is the rescue, etc. Their Numbering system is similar to Dutchess' system, until you get into ambulances, or Chief's cars... Their Particular Chief's numbers are Car 31A, 31B, 31C, etc. What the significance is I haven't the foggiest, other than assuming "Car A" is the Chief, and B and C are Assistnant?? I still quite haven't figured out the Ambulance numbers, other than knowing which one it is by dealing with them before...

There's truly no rhyme or reason aside from Department numbers in Ulster. I really wish it was like Dutchess but it truly isn't and here's why-

Fire Departments-

15- Accord

16- Binnewater (now disbanded)

17- Big Indian- Oliverea

18- Bloomington

19- Centerville - Cedar Grove

20- Claryville (now under Sullivan Co. 911)

21- Clintondale

22- Connely

23- Cottekill

24- Cragsmoor

25- East Kingston

26- Ellenville

27- Esopus

28- Gardiner

29- Glasco

30- High Falls

31- Highland

32- Hurley

33- Kerhonkson

34- Kripplebush - Lyonsville

35- Lomontville

36- Malden - West Camp

37- Marbletown

38- Marlboro

39- Milton

40- Modena

41- Mount Marion

42- Napanoch

43- New Paltz

44- Olive

45- Phoenicia

46- Pine Hill

47- Plattekill

48- Port Ewen

49- Plattekill

50- Rosendale

51- Ruby

52- St. Remy

53- Saugerties

54- Sawkill

55- Saxton - Asbury - Kaatsbaan

56- County Fire

57- Shawangunk Valley

58- Stone Ridge

59- Spring Lake

60- Tillson

61- Ulster Hose

62- Vly Atwood

63- Walker Valley

64- Wallkill

65- Wawarsing (Disbanded)

66- West Hurley

67- Woodstock

Fire units have no rhyme or reason aside from sometimes having the prefixes of E/R/T/L/M

etc and that's even going away.. Most start at 10 and go up from there, and some do the 10-

20-30-40-50 thing. Generally if there are two stations or above in a district most if not

departments elect to number the apparatus in the station to reflect the station # ie. "apparatus

X" out of Woodstock station 1 would be 67-10,11,12, station 2 would be 67-20, 21, 22 etc...

Chiefs are all messed up too.. top ranking usually will be Car XX, then 1st asst. or

deputy being XX-1... and so on. These can sometimes be numbered by station too.. like

the Asst. Chief from Olive Company 4 being 44-4.. etc.. Some do the "XX-A", "XX-B", thing

for chiefs but mostly that's for company Captains.

County Cars use numbers with the prefix 56, as well as the dispatchers. Arson Task Force

uses letters.

Someday I want to use a symbol.. "the Firefighter formerly known as..." anyways..

Ambulance Squads-

71- Kerhonkson Accord Rescue - Unit 600, 601

72- Marbletown First Aid - Unit 611, 612 (I think)

73- Olive First Aid- 630, 631, 631

74- Ellenville First Aid- ?

75- Esopus Ambulance- ?

76- Wallkill Ambulance- ?

77- Marlboro Ambulance- 604, 605, 606 (I think)

78- Shandaken Ambulance- 625, 626, 78-50

79- Diaz Ambulance- 664, 665, 667, 79-50

80- New Paltz Rescue- 621, 622, 623, 80-10

82- Alamo Ambulance- Medic X

83- Mobile Life Support- 2XX

*Gardiner (635), Hurley(?), Modena (640), Plattekill (647 +1?), Shawangunk Valley(?), West Hurley(667, 668), and Woodstock (670, 672, 673, 67-50) also run FD ambulances*

This also adds to the pandemonium as all ambulances have unique numbers in the six-hundred

range. One would think that the numbers would correspond to the department #s.. but that

would make sense right? So lets take for instance Shandaken Ambulance.. 2 ambulances..

Unit 625 & 626... ??? The one thing that is constant is the Ambulance Squads (and Fire

Department) that have medics.. these units correspond to the Department # and have the

last two numbers of 50. Additional medics count upwards.. ie 51,52, etc.. so Ellenville

Rescue's Medic would be 74-50, backup medic is 74-51, etc..

Squad Chiefs/ Captains are the same as fire.. with highest usually being "Car XX" as an

]example.. so for instance Shandaken's Grand Poobah is Car 78, 1st Assistant Idiot is

78-1, etc..

Then to make things EVEN MORE confusing you throw in the commercials.. these guys are on

their own... Mobile Life 268, Hudson Valley 64,723, Alamo Medic 15, you get the idea..

In addition to the above shenanigans we have some "behind the fence" Departments whose #'s

I don't really know-

85- Eastern Correctional Facility

Mohonk Fire Brigade

Watchtower Fire Brigade/Ambulance

....it drives me crazy every day I'm not in Dutchess!

[Guest]

I remember that system and Glenham was 360,361 and I forget what the brush truck was. They were the only ones in Southern Dutchess that used it back then . I thought it had something to do with the old computers KED-348 had

OK - this nulls my theory. Many years ago I heard that these 3-digit numbers indicated how far away the apparatus was from NYC. For example, Pleasant Valley E-165 was the 165th engine away from the NYC border... Millbrook 210 was the 210th engine away from the NYC border, etc. etc...

But if Glenham was 360's... this theory wouldn't make any sense, due to the fact that Glenham is closer to NYC than PV and MB.

Oh well... maybe the world will just never know the true meaning........ or maybe the old timers like Heck or Kaehler might know...

[x129K 1,393]

Mid 90's...Millbrook and Union Vale dispatched for a possible house fire....

Union Vale engine to KED 348, " Any better location? We see a column of smoke!"

George Heck, "Yes....at the bottom of the smoke"

LOL!

[Guest]

Mid 90's...Millbrook and Union Vale dispatched for a possible house fire....

Union Vale engine to KED 348, " Any better location? We see a column of smoke!"

George Heck, "Yes....at the bottom of the smoke"

LOL!

Haha priceless! Reminds me of an ems call I was on a few years back. Working BLS backing up the medics on an arrest, we get on scene and ask for a 10-12 (what do they need upstairs). When they respond back with, "how bout a patient, cause there's nobody here but us and the mice".

[Guest]

George was a piece of work but you knew when Dover or Union Vale had a job

Dovers engines were (depending on what year) engine 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and truck 1 utility 1 or 2 and ambulance 1 or 2

[RDUNC67 1]

OK - this nulls my theory. Many years ago I heard that these 3-digit numbers indicated how far away the apparatus was from NYC. For example, Pleasant Valley E-165 was the 165th engine away from the NYC border... Millbrook 210 was the 210th engine away from the NYC border, etc. etc...

But if Glenham was 360's... this theory wouldn't make any sense, due to the fact that Glenham is closer to NYC than PV and MB.

Oh well... maybe the world will just never know the true meaning........ or maybe the old timers like Heck or Kaehler might know...

I had heard that this was some form of "Civil Defense" numbering(not sure of how true this is) and that was obviuosly way before my time, i know Wassaic used those numbers right up to when the new numbering system in Dutchess was put in place, i know some old Chiefs from that era, i'll have to ask.

[Medic137 6]

Mid 90's...Millbrook and Union Vale dispatched for a possible house fire....

Union Vale engine to KED 348, " Any better location? We see a column of smoke!"

George Heck, "Yes....at the bottom of the smoke"

LOL!

If you see a column of smoke, do you really need to ask for a better location?

[Beekman 5]

In regards to the NYC theory, Beekman was numbered in the 400's with 34-11 being former "409" and it was the highest numbered rig in Beekman.

I recently read one the original proposals for the Dutchess County re-numbering schemes ('88?) and it was to be by Battalion with Battalion 1 starting with 31. At least the alpabetical numbering sequence makes sense.

[markmets415 524]

I forgot one of our apparatus, how could that have been possible???

224

[fireguy43 35]

I remember that system and Glenham was 360,361 and I forget what the brush truck was. They were the only ones in Southern Dutchess that used it back then . I thought it had something to do with the old computers KED-348 had

Glenham was indeed 360, 361 and the brush truck was 362. The guys in Glenham wanted to maintain the "old numbering system" that predated my time there. Back when I started with them (mid '70's), I only recall Glenham, Beekman, Millbrook and Unionvale still using the number sequence. Although they were the only ones using them, all departments were apparently assigned the numbers at one point. I can remember that Glenham's running cards for pre=plans used the three digit numbers for engines from Village of Fishkill and City of Beacon. I believe Beacon was numbered in the 350's, don't recall Fishkill's number range.

[x129K 1,393]

Some trivia = who remembers what JUNIOR Officers were called on the radio back in the old system?

[Guest]

Some trivia = who remembers what JUNIOR Officers were called on the radio back in the old system?

"Portable 10"

[x129K 1,393]

Correct!

"Portable"....

Millbrook's captain was portable 1

[tdc202 0]

"I believe Beacon was numbered in the 350's, don't recall Fishkill's number range"

I think your right about Beacon's numbers although they were never used.

[50-65 205]

Maybe you can inform Orange County how much better your numbering system works. We seem to still be stuck in the dark ages.

I believe that at one time (around the beginning of 911) Orange County wanted to renumber apparatus but the districts balked at this.

For those around us in more modern times, OC uses a 3 digit number starting with the Battalion # (1-9). Each District is given a set of numbers. They can use the number for anything, rescue, engine, tanker, etc. The problem with this is that you are limited to those numbers. If you run out of numbers, what then?

Our district is facing this now as the number of pieces of equipment have out-numbered our supply of numbers.

[Guest]

Some trivia = who remembers what JUNIOR Officers were called on the radio back in the old system?

if you go far enough back junior officers were not suppose to be on the radio just chiefs

[fireguy43 35]

Glenham was indeed 360, 361 and the brush truck was 362. The guys in Glenham wanted to maintain the "old numbering system" that predated my time there. Back when I started with them (mid '70's), I only recall Glenham, Beekman, Millbrook and Unionvale still using the number sequence. Although they were the only ones using them, all departments were apparently assigned the numbers at one point. I can remember that Glenham's running cards for pre=plans used the three digit numbers for engines from Village of Fishkill and City of Beacon. I believe Beacon was numbered in the 350's, don't recall Fishkill's number range.

Allow me to self correct- the brush truck was not 362. That designation was given to the GMC Top Kick foam unit that Texaco donated to Glenham. If I remember correctly, both the foam unit and a new utility arrived during the same year. The Foam unit became 362 as it functioned as a full engine, and the new utility (a Saulsbury), became 363.