Automatic License Plate Reader question

[v85 212]

Any LEO's please correct me if I am wrong but:

I thought any ALPR hits needed to be confirmed through dispatch prior to any action being taken. I sure hope there wasn't an LEO who was issuing tickets and towing cars based off of unconfirmed ALPR hits.

[INIT915 1,119]

personally i am not a fan of the plate reader, its a great concept but needs some kinks worked out. some of my friends hav gotten pulled over b.c it said their registation has been expired when it hasnt and they couldnt drive home and need to get their car towed.

There's a problem with your story. The LPR doesn't hit on Expired Registrations, therefore, your friends didn't tell you the whole story.

[Guest]

There's a problem with your story. The LPR doesn't hit on Expired Registrations, therefore, your friends didn't tell you the whole story.

i may hav mis understood them then, ill find out the story

[helicopper 1,050]

personally i am not a fan of the plate reader, its a great concept but needs some kinks worked out. some of my friends hav gotten pulled over b.c it said their registation has been expired when it hasnt and they couldnt drive home and need to get their car towed.

INIT is correct. The database only tracks stolen and suspended registrations. If you're friends registration was suspended and they have no proof to the contrary, they're going to have to take it up with DMV.

V85, the database in the ALPR is updated daily directly from DMV so if you get a hit it's probably going to be the same information as received by a radio check. If the database is current however, there's no reason why you couldn't act on the information from it. Whether or not you have to go through your dispatch center is probably a matter of department policy.

AJS, EZ-Pass records can be subpoenaed for investigative reasons and have been used to identify where a vehicle (associated with the tag) has been so I'm not sure what you mean. This does take a court order; a law enforcement officer can't just call EZ-Pass for the info.

[Guest]

init915 and chris192 thanks for the clarification, it happened to b a glitch in the DMV and he got off

[Beekman 5]

Quick question for the LEOs on here and I'm sorry if the question seems silly:

I would assume the system checks more plates that are coming from the opposite direction than the patrol car is headed in more suburban areas. If so, is there going to be a more concerted effort to enforce the V&T statue that requires vehicles registered in NYS to have the front license plate installed?

[x129K 1,393]

Quick question for the LEOs on here and I'm sorry if the question seems silly:

I would assume the system checks more plates that are coming from the opposite direction than the patrol car is headed in more suburban areas. If so, is there going to be a more concerted effort to enforce the V&T statue that requires vehicles registered in NYS to have the front license plate installed?

I used to get pulled over ALL OF THE TIME when I was running a non-NYS vanity plate...I finally wised up and put it back on!

When I worked @ the Mount Vernon EMS stattion, we would park under the bridge, on the street...a MVPD boss had a hard on for front plates and would order the guys to ticket us..even the people from Ct, who only issued one plate...

[ajsbear 11]

INIT is correct. The database only tracks stolen and suspended registrations. If you're friends registration was suspended and they have no proof to the contrary, they're going to have to take it up with DMV.

V85, the database in the ALPR is updated daily directly from DMV so if you get a hit it's probably going to be the same information as received by a radio check. If the database is current however, there's no reason why you couldn't act on the information from it. Whether or not you have to go through your dispatch center is probably a matter of department policy.

AJS, EZ-Pass records can be subpoenaed for investigative reasons and have been used to identify where a vehicle (associated with the tag) has been so I'm not sure what you mean. This does take a court order; a law enforcement officer can't just call EZ-Pass for the info.

Chris, you're 100% correct. You need a court order to open anyone's EZ Pass records the same as you would for any financial data because that is what it is, financial data. The myths about reader catching speeders is wrong. When someone goes through a toll they do capture your plates and that is where they can get you for various violations. That is often used. There was talk several years ago about a divorce case where one of the parties was tracked using EZ Pass. Well the unit was attached to the wifes credit card and the thing was in the husbands car. She gave permission to release the info but it did get passed through a judge.

[RocklandFires 44]

My Department has at least 1 unit mounted on the trunk of 1 of our unmarked traffic cars. It sure came in handy just over a week ago. The Spring Valley PD had a domestic dispute/assault that took place in their jurisdiction. The male perp took his son and fled in his car, which the PD had the plate for. The male called the childs mother on the cell phone and threatened to jump off a bridge. The Spring Valley PD was tracking the perps cell phone and was giving units his possible location area over the radio. Our traffic Officer on the road manually entered the plate into his LPR and headed toward the area that the perp may have been in along our border. As he was heading down Middletown Road in Nanuet he got a hit on the vehicle and made a quick u-turn. He was positive the vehicle turned onto Smith Road and searched the entire length of road and side streets until he found him in the parking lot of a nursing home. When the perp spotted our unmarked police car he took off. Unfortunately a pursuit started and the perp crashed into 3 of our police cars before pulling into the parking lot of the Spring Valley Police Station to turn himself in. The child in the car was unharmed. If it weren't for the LPR, the vehicle may have not been located so quickly, if not at all.

[helicopper 1,050]

I used to get pulled over ALL OF THE TIME when I was running a non-NYS vanity plate...I finally wised up and put it back on!

When I worked @ the Mount Vernon EMS stattion, we would park under the bridge, on the street...a MVPD boss had a hard on for front plates and would order the guys to ticket us..even the people from Ct, who only issued one plate...

Connecticut does issue two plates now - and for a long time. The trick was just recognizing the tell-tale for a single plate or pair of plates!

[Medic137 6]

Connecticut does issue two plates now - and for a long time. The trick was just recognizing the tell-tale for a single plate or pair of plates!

The map of the state in the corner?

[khas143 13]

QUOTE(bvfdjc316 @ Feb 7 2009, 11:55 PM)

What I mean is that the statement "if have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" is nothing more than police propaganda/mind tricks in-order to have suspects/members of the public to wave their constitutional rights. The right being waved is the forth amendment, the right against unusual search and seizure.

The forth amendment is designed to protect American citizens from the government going in with little or no evidence from searching and seizing property in search of evidence without probable cause. The above statement implies that one should wave their rights because they have nothing to hide, which then completely ignores the 4th Amendment. While I know trickery and twisting words are part of police work, all it takes is a police officer to exploit the ignorance of one member of society who thinks "they have nothing to hide" when they do and dont know it and someone goes to jail.

For the record, an officer quoted "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" to me when asking to search my person and my belongings and I promptly told him to get a warrant otherwise I was leaving and you know what, I left and the officer was stuck with a nothing but a waste of his own time.

wow when i was that age you never mouthed off to the police different world we live in now

Hey BVFD.... with all due respect, were you trying to show off you legal knowledge???? I too was in a similar situation when I was young (young as you that is) and I said "Go ahead.... search my car" and you know what... they did... and found nothing.. because I had nothing to hide.... funny to add that as a more senior(greater that 25 years old) adult I too let the police search my vehice in another state upon their request... why... because I had nothing to hide and they were doing their job!!! They profiled me and in fairness to that particular police agency they had a reason (because it works) to do so!!!! You are well within your right to refuse a search request within New York State but... my young brother... beware... that case law does not exist all over the U.S.... My advice is simply this.... If you want to be an ACLU lawyer by all means pursue your goals.... If you want to be participate in the public safety community, pick your battles wisely and SUPPORT THOSE THAT ARE DOING THEIR JOBS!!!!!!! Don't be a roadblock but a willing participant to prevent "bad things" from happening to your community... (In your case, the officer was obviously concerned that illegal narcotics were present.. don't you think that in that situation, as a member of a public safety organizataion you should have been more concerned about those illegal narcotics getting out on the street!!!)...

Enough of that... the point of this thread is the license plate reader... It is legal becuase there is no personal information displayed unless there is a "crime" (misd. or felony)... this has been confirmed in court cases dating back to 1983. In addition, all "hits" must be confirmed to NYSPIN or similar state databases... So boo hoo to all those that whine about being a criminal...

[helicopper 1,050]

Isn't it great to live in a country where you can both be right!

[Oswegowind 17]

Connecticut does issue two plates now - and for a long time. The trick was just recognizing the tell-tale for a single plate or pair of plates!

Proceed with your "Nutmeg" registration...just if it is a combo you'd better have the VIN unless someone figured that out yet!

Edited April 13, 2009 by Oswegowind

[RocklandFires 44]

Photos of my departments traffic car with the LPR mounted on the rear.

[v85 212]

Doesn't having an LPR on the trunk kind of defeat the purposes of an unmarked car.

[helicopper 1,050]

Doesn't having an LPR on the trunk kind of defeat the purposes of an unmarked car.

Not really. People don't really pay attention to things like that and it isn't just unmarked cars they don't see. You'd be surprised at how many people don't notice (or ignore) low profile (fully marked cars just without the roof lights) cars and do stupid things in front of them.

[M' Ave 1,466]

How does the LPR handle multiple plates in the frame? (i.e. on the highway with two lanes of traffic beside the cruiser? Does it read both plates at once?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Doesn't having an LPR on the trunk kind of defeat the purposes of an unmarked car.

I have to agree with that. While the general motoring public does not notice or look for these things, the trained or experienced eye can see these and other low-profile/visibility warning systems and tell that it is a cop and take the actions they feel are best.

I can not tell you the number of times that I have been able to warn a driver of a car that am in of cops on the road by pointing out the LPR or the dash and grille lights. I once even saw this crown vic with 2 LPR on the roof and 2 on the trunk and let me tell you everyone saw it was a cop and everyone stayed the hell away from it.

Can these be mounted in a car, because that would make them alot less obvious.

[helicopper 1,050]

Alas, the benefits of the "low profile" and "unmarked" cars... They are not designed for covert surveillance, they're designed for traffic enforcement. If (and for some this is a big if) you're smart enough to pick out the unmarked and low-profile cars and you slow down and/or you point them out to someone else - they've served their purpose. You can sit out there all day long in a fully marked car with or without an ALPR and write ticket after ticket.

Traffic enforcement is designed to gain compliance with the law so when you see these cars and double-check your speed or hang-up the cell phone or whatever they've done their job. For those who don't pay attention, they get an autograph to remind them about the law. There really isn't any need to make unmarked cars so covert that you can't pick them out - at least for traffic enforcement.

Now for applications where secrecy is important, investiations and surveillance for example, the ALPR can be concealed and the vehicle camoflauged to prevent detection.

As for multiple plates in the frame, I don't know exactly how the technology works but it can process multiple lanes of traffic in both directions (I think the closing speed is capable of like 150 MPH).

[OnTheWheel 43]

The cant shoot through windows due to the infrared or something.

[ny10570 745]

Infrared behaves much like visible light in that its absorbed, reflected, and deflected by glass. While it could work from inside a vehicle it would diminish the quality of the image it reads especially on plates covered by glass or plexiglass.

[RocklandFires 44]

Article in today's Journal News about the Suffern PD's new LPR:

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009904170352

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Found this on lohud.com:

Plate scanners help spot offenders

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009905290369

I am not going to get into my personal thoughts on this topic, again, but I will say that I share the concerns of the legal community......