Albany Ambulance Accident

[INIT915 1,119]

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=764086

NISKAYUNA - An ambulance taking a patient to her home rear-ended a vehicle at a busy intersection earlier this afternoon, police and ambulance officials said.

There were no reported injuries but for a time the empty ambulance was wedged precariously against a snowbank in the northbound lane of Balltown Road just north of Union Street.

Take a look at the pictures attached to the article.

[x129K 1,393]

Upside down risk/benefit equation for sure!

[JM15 386]

haha I was thinking the same thing. Risky operation

[joetnymedic 43]

you sure it didn't wind up on it's side? when I enlarged the pics it looked like the center of the rig was dented pretty good

[ny10570 745]

yeah. From the article the bus wound up on the bank during the accident. Either thats where the car and bus met or attempting to place the struts they found out just how sturdy our rigs are.

Its empty. Would you even take the risk to place the struts?

[JM15 386]

I certainly wouldn't have members "holding" it up with their bodies if I was the officer. It is only a picture and none of us were on scene though. Anyone have any input? Is it worth trying to place struts on an unoccupied vehicle?

[FFFORD 27]

i would say it is worth it even being so that it was unoccupied. what if the rig was to suddenly, due to multiple possible factors, tip when someone was around. may as well make it as safe as possible as long as members/people are around the scene. also why not stabilize to ensure it does not tip to prevent further damage. that rig will be put back in service after the dent is popped out granted there is no unseen severe damage. just my 2 cents. i'm sure there is more to it that we do not know.

Edited January 28, 2009 by FFFORD

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

TOTALLY unsafe and a risk to manpower if no one is in the bus. Let the tow compay do their job, thats what insurance is for!

[NJMedic 96]

Someone got new turnout gear for Christmas.

[joetnymedic 43]

Someone got new turnout gear for Christmas.

they're all kinda clean from the pics huh?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

i would say it is worth it even being so that it was unoccupied. what if the rig was to suddenly, due to multiple possible factors, tip when someone was around. may as well make it as safe as possible as long as members/people are around the scene. also why not stabilize to ensure it does not tip to prevent further damage. that rig will be put back in service after the dent is popped out granted there is no unseen severe damage. just my 2 cents. i'm sure there is more to it that we do not know.

Really...your risk vs benefit analysis deems that the risk of that unoccupied ambulance rolling over and potentially crushing or entrapping numerous (or even one for that matter) isn't above and beyond the benefit of simply having that rig put back in service? You say it yourself..."what if the rig was to suddenly...tip when someone was around." Guess what...with what they are doing there are multiple people around, standing underneath it. If the thing did tip and they were just able to hold it...then what? How would you get any stabilization equipment in there with all those bodies and be able to do it in a rush if they were able to just hold it up and not get it back upright?

Even if there are people inside of it...myself and my personnel come first. That vehicle gets stabilized with the minimal exposure of personnel to risk. If it is unoccupied...then everyone stands clear.

[x635 4,066]

This is why van ambulances should be phased out, ESPECIALLY in areas with snow and ice are common. The van is cheap and useful for transports and BLS in certain situations, but a Type I or III offers much more stability and weight on the rear wheels- not to mention added crew and patient safety.

I did my time in a van in Yonkers and many other municipalties during snow and it is not fun!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

This is why van ambulances should be phased out, ESPECIALLY in areas with snow and ice are common. The van is cheap and useful for transports and BLS in certain situations, but a Type I or III offers much more stability and weight on the rear wheels- not to mention added crew and patient safety.

I did my time in a van in Yonkers and many other municipalties during snow and it is not fun!

Yes you have brother and I also. But I have to say I think van's do have their place and if I had to choose between funding issues...I'd go with a van to get other things. If the money was there...a simple type III is great.

Sometimes its not the game...but actually the player and I've had, seen and been in type III's that have similiar issues. If your gonna slide..your gonna slide. Anyone have any experience with van's with chains on? Does it help at all? And I don't mean those silly on spots either.

[Goose 188]

Yes you have brother and I also. But I have to say I think van's do have their place and if I had to choose between funding issues...I'd go with a van to get other things. If the money was there...a simple type III is great.

Sometimes its not the game...but actually the player and I've had, seen and been in type III's that have similiar issues. If your gonna slide..your gonna slide. Anyone have any experience with van's with chains on? Does it help at all? And I don't mean those silly on spots either.

The chains definitely help in the snow but result in a very annoying ride.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Especially if you can only go 15 mph..........

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Especially if you can only go 15 mph..........

And if your on snow and/or ice covered roads resulting in the need for the use of chains..how fast are you going to exactly go without them or how fast would you really want or need to go?...and with tire chains you can get above that speed. Don't know why you would want to...but you can.

Goose...I'm with you there bro...nothing like a little teeth rattling.

[EXDC203 38]

Wow, an officer let his people do this.........

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

When the on-spots chains are activated on the rig I have in mind, even if the road is fine to drive on, and just a certain part of the call needed the on-spots, for example having to go up a single unplowed road that are frequent here in Vermont during and after a storm, you can only go up to 15 miles per hour otherwise the on-spots will start to shred the tires.

[x129K 1,393]

Wow, an officer let his people do this.........

Exactly.....

[Guest alsfirefighter]

When the on-spots chains are activated on the rig I have in mind, even if the road is fine to drive on, and just a certain part of the call needed the on-spots, for example having to go up a single unplowed road that are frequent here in Vermont during and after a storm, you can only go up to 15 miles per hour otherwise the on-spots will start to shred the tires.

OK. And even with or without on spots...how fast do you need or are willing to go on a single...unplowed road...anywhere? And believe me..where I work it is frequent during storms and some time afterwards while the DPW guys are out doing their best to have single unplowed roads that are pretty steep hills.

The only thing I can think of to still stabilize that vehicle is to protect the tow truck operator when he has to hook the ambulance. He would be at risk. Unless anyone here is a hook operator and can give some insight if you can do it another way. But in no way would I put people around that like that. Find something behind it to secure it via rope, webbing, chains, etc. If in a big pinch what about slowly melting the snow with the tank water under the bus to get it back on its tires?

Heck with that many guys if they all had to urinate that would have done that trick as well...lol...

[INIT915 1,119]

New Details

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=765137

NISKAYUNA — The driver of the ambulance that ran into a snowbank earlier this week had been cautioned recently by an Albany firefighter about text messaging while driving, an official said Thursday.

Deputy Albany Fire Chief Frank Nerney said his firefighter noticed that the Mohawk Ambulance Service driver in Tuesday's Niskayuna accident was the same driver the firefighter saw texting while she was transporting a patient to an Albany hospital.

[JM15 386]

Another good tactic is to use a winch. A lot of the new rescues coming out have winch hookup points on all four sides of the rig. Hook up the winch and secure the vehicle that way.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Im sorry if my point got diluted but I was trying to say while yes, one must go the speed safe it sucks when you only need the chains for a little bit, where you go less than 15, but when you dont need them anymore you still cant go over 15.