Standardization within Westchester

[Remember585 815]

Another thread got me thinking....

Being that Westchester County is becoming more aware of the safety of its own, more Departments are utilizing Mutual Aid to supplement their efforts. This is an applausable act, because realizing that you may need help from the start means you're looking beyond the pride factor, and looking out for your members.

But - (there's always a but) when we have incidents with multiple agencies participating, they become nothing less than confusing. There are minor things I think we could do to help simplify and clarify things on our scenes.

1. Inter-agency training. I know we talk about this all the time, but those Departments that work with eachother often need to drill together often. Drills are practice for the "big game." If we run the basics over and over again in our heads, and we rehearse the moves so often that we can do them in our sleep, when we pull up on a real job, we won't be so hysterical and clumsy.

2. Simplified radios. Look, I don't care what type of radios you use, I just hope we are all getting it through our heads to get radios on the same bandwidth (UHF in my opinion) so we can communicate with our neighbors. Please, and I say this in terms of safety, start using the fireground channels, and GET OFF THE DISPATCH FREQUENCY!

3. Universal Accountability Tags. If we all had a system that worked the same way, as a sector leader at a major incident, I could collect tags from Montrose, Goldens Bridge and Larchmont firefighters and know what I am getting based on a universal color scheme. I believe Rockland has a countywide system, and we should aim for this too! Why do we all need something different? Give everyone 2 tags, one to leave with their rig, and one for their Sector Leader.

4. Univeral Helmet Codes. White hats, Red hats, blue hats, black hats - what does it all mean? Generally speaking a white helmet is reserved for Chiefs, but this isn't always the case. What about differentiating between Interior and Exterior firefighters? If we had a set code for what color helmet meant what, then an IC wouldn't have to guess.

I know I am dreaming of something that will probably never happen, but doesn't anyone agree with me? I have been to fire scenes in many towns over the years, and the only thing that appears to be "standard" is confusion.

Remember585 - advocate for safer fireground operations, as unrealistic as they may seem....

[x648eng119 2]

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> Well said, John. I couldn't agree more. I remeber one time at the FTC, my sister, a Croton Explorer.(They wear blue helmets) Walked up to a Peekskill firefighter in a blue helmet, and asked him how long he had been in the explorers for...The fighter happened to be young Jim Seymour, NOT AN EXPLORER! #-o Just one more reason to try and keep things universal.

[chris 18]

I am writing only so CFD-320 can see the avatar he is sick of seeing.(ha-ha).

The more we all get on the same page, the less we have to guess

or assume, and we don't want to assume. (we know what that means)

[Guest alsfirefighter]

585 Great points...but....

This is Westchester and just like Military and intelligence don't go together....neither will Westchester and standardization. 1 County and hundreds of ego's and "they can't tell us what to do" types.

[bmfd231 3]

In Briarcliff we use different color helmets. Engine companies wear black, ladder members wear yellow, chief of course is white and safety is orange.

We have had one company go a step further by replacing company numbers with badge numbers on their helmut shields. While I think it makes some sense to individualize equipment as much as possible, the numbering system did not make much sense to me unless you have a very good memory who belongs to each number ](*,) . Another use special probationary shields, which is a great approach to quickly identify trainee's in a sea of black =D>

[CFD320 35]

CHRIS

I thought you chimed in because you are used to wearing the blue helmet while riding the short bus.

[Guest]

my feelings on this. Black helmets all around except for the chiefs. just put a diferent shield on the front. white shield for officers. gold lief for the chiefs

[Remember585 815]

That's how we do it.

Chiefs wear white coats, white helmets.

EVERYONE ELSE wears black. Officers have white shields. Engine members wear black shield, truck wears red, and Rescue has blue.

I believe our Safety Officers have green helmet fronts now.

[x635 4,066]

Great points Remember585.

Not to mention that if we all standardized equipment within Westchester, than we could form a purchaisng cooperative, therefore leading to lower aqquisiton costs for equipment and supplies by buying in bulk.

[Guest]

Purchasing co-operative = State bid, it's there already

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Not to mention that to follow NFPA you have to have a system to distinguish members status on the fireground. Interior vs. non-interior etc.

First thing to do get standardized levels of training requirements for each level of firefighter, officer, chiefs. For all career and volunteer.

Second thing we should do is get rid of black gear and go tan.

[doug_e 0]

This is to elaborate on BMFD231's comments:

We have had one company go a step further by replacing company numbers with badge numbers on their helmut shields. . . 

. . .the numbering system did not make much sense to me unless you have a very good memory who belongs to each number

This was my idea born out of necessity. In the past when equipment was stored on the apparatus helmets had either E93 or E94 helmet shields on them to indicate which rig to return it to. Since we no longer do that, having 93 or 94 on the helmet made no sense. I decided to use badge numbers with velcro backing on Passport type shields so that a member could move his badge from one helmet to another if necessary as they progressed from proby through Captain. Without having to buy new shields at every step of the way.

It also serves as an additional identification. You might not know everyone, but you might know a few. If I found a helmet on the ground with a L40 or E92 badge I'd know only that I had a helmet from that company. The same helmet with a badge number shield and I might know who. Any additional information you get is helpful early on in mayday situations.

Also I wanted to use different color badge numbers to indicate interior, exterior, etc. White numbers on black=interior / black numbers on white=exterior

Black shields for all non officers

White shields for Officers

Different background fields to diferentiate between companies:

White letters on red field = Fire Company

Black letters on white field = Scarborough.

From a distance looking at a persons helmet you could easily identify what company they're from, what rank, whether they we interior or not.

It's confusing to imagine but if that became the way our department worked you'd soon be very familiar with the system.

[HFD209 4]

I agree with fire dawg and remember... In hartsdale We are attempting to swithc over to a differenty helmet policy. The way things were was that we would all have yellow helmets except for the officers. Each helmet had and interior firefighter sticker if you were interior. The things was you had to look twice at the helmet to see if the guy could back you up on a line or not. Now what we switched to, unofficially, is black helmets for all that interio, and yellow for exterior. Our volunteer capatins have blue helmets with white shields, and our lieutenants have black hlemets with white shields. We are also trying to move to change the captains helmets to black with the white shields.

Back in the day the lieutenants had red the captains had blue and the Asst. chief had blue also. This was b/c they wanted to differenciate between a paid and volunteer Assistant chief and deputy chief, and a paid captain and a volunteer captain. These days you never know who wears what and how they choose it, but we all have our different weays of doing things, and if we dont all unify to organize to get one system down, then atleast we should be familiar with the other systems around us..

[doug_e 0]

Hell we can't standardize our own department.... ](*,)

[Guest]

doug you have me a little confused for engine co's you say white numbers on a red front. thats the front for an officer on a truck co. as well as you say black numbers on a white front for exterior. thats an officer on an engine co. Iunderstand what your trying to do. but I think that would be pretty confusing #-o

[Remember585 815]

Exterior firefighters should wear coats with a big "X" on it, that would solve that issue.

Plus, if it's on a big enough member, you can utilize their coat as a helicpoter landing pad...

Hey, I'm always thinking.....

[doug_e 0]

Firedawg - For FF's the shield is black, the lettering is white on a red background (known as the field color when ordering). For Briarcliff Fire Company.

Officers wear white shields on red helmets in all companies in the BMFD.

[Guest]

I'm just going by standard tradition

[Guest SQUADco119]

see all this talk about what helmet is what what coat is what etc. i think at least with the accountbility system and turnout gear the whole county could be the same its really not that hard to do. It might take time though. In my opinion all firefighters is in black gear with black helmets except for chiefs and probies. The chiefs obvoiusly where white probies where black just with a different colored shield and extieror wheres a black helmet to with a extieror shield. Line officers like captain luietant just where a shield that says thier position. listen i dont care how it looks just as long as everyone is on the same page. Am i for comaony and department tradition yes but this is different. Theres nothing wrong with having a different truck or eng but remember tradition comes from when fires in that day were your own and nobody elses well as we all know thats not the case today if we all show up in the same gear the other depatment ic leader what have knows hey thats a firefighter from what have you not wheres thier officer in the green helmet or wait does this department where red oh wait there goes yellow ERRRRR #-o lol you get my drift if all chiefs would get together and realize this they are the one that can make it happen maybe not while thier chief but atleast get it in the works. :-k

[WAS967 97]

Second thing we should do is get rid of black gear and go tan.

Out of curiosity, why Tan?

[Remember585 815]

Out of curiosity, why Tan?

From what I understand, the "tan" gear is the natural color of the material used. To get it black they have to die it, thus costing a little more as well.

The advantages of tan gear include better visibility (vs. black), and it is easier to see dirt, oils, soot, blood, etc. compared to a black coat.

Personally, I have worn black forever, but I am open for new ideas and concepts, especially if it means improved safety for everyone.

[doug_e 0]

I've heard that roughly 80% of turnouts sold in the US are not black (PBI, Tan, Gold, etc.) and 90% of all black turnouts are sold in the northeast.

100 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress!

I've expressed a desire to move away from black in my department and have been told it won't happen.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

Black gear has some disadvantages, first black will absorb more heat , whereas a tan or white will repel heat. this can have an impact to the health of a firefighter . As the one other writer wrote that the black is a dye. Yes, this has a profound outcome on the life of the gear. A natural color coat [tan] properly maintained will have a longer life expectency then black gear that is properly maintained. The dye is a bit acidic so over time the dye will work to undu the stiching. thus over time the dye will weaken the gear. the dye will also break down the fibers of the shell overtime and loose some of its strength.

Some will say, hey my black gear is 15-20 years old... I'll say thats good, you must have taken care of the gear.

I headed up our dept's committee on changing gear starting in '92 and did a year study with 12 sets of gear 6 tan 6 black Both held up pretty good and we went with the tan. Those original 6 sets are still in use [tan] The black ended up in the dumpster about 5 years ago. Same gear, just started to fall apart.

[PVFD113 6]

Just to add to this--If I am correct--Natural PBI is tan in color. Black--altohough is "traditional"--can hide imperfections and/or damage . Also since the black is not natural--it must be dyed--which in turn raises the price.