East Fishkill (Dutchess) 2nd Alarm of Fire - 25 Sydney Lane 1-25-09

[Guest Photounit]

Here's a few quick shots..... Don't know when I can post more due to my semi-comatose state and work schedule......

Edited January 25, 2009 by Photounit

[effd3918 34]

wow looks like a fast moving fire...great pictures Bill good job east fishkill

[Patch6713 18]

Nice pictures and good work East Fishkill.

[Guest]

Nice pics Bill. Get some sleep so your ready for the next one

[x129K 1,393]

Wow Bill! 2009 is a banner year so far huh!?

If this keeps up - I say go ahead with the "master plan" - I'll support it 100 percent!

2 pics have such unique points of view..amazing work...better than usual!

[NWFDMedic 58]

I was reading the IA for this call and they clearly had a priority to leave the driveway for the truck. Being in a department that doesn't have the benefit of a truck, I guess I don't consider this too often. When I volunteered in a department with a truck, the first due engine company and the truck company generally responded simultaneously so there wasn't much of a delay.

For the chiefs out there with more experience than me... would you complicate the initial attack of a fire like this in an uncomplicated residence to leave room for the truck coming several minutes later? Now it doesn't seem to be an issue here, as the road looks to be nearby and the front yard is pretty clear. I fought several fires in development houses like this, even in a department with a truck company, and we generally found that putting up 2 ground ladders was quicker and more effective than the tower. It also allows you to position the first due engine for the initial attack and may not waste valuable minutes while the fire doubles in size.

[Guest Photounit]

Wow Bill! 2009 is a banner year so far huh!?

If this keeps up - I say go ahead with the "master plan" - I'll support it 100 percent!

2 pics have such unique points of view..amazing work...better than usual!

Master Plan...... 100%......... Hmmmmmmmmm

Just a note...... These photo's make the structure look smaller than it was ......

[markmets415 524]

Bill great shots as always, glad I got a chance to meet you the other night. I love the shot through the window, awesome.

[Guest Photounit]

Bill great shots as always, glad I got a chance to meet you the other night. I love the shot through the window, awesome.

Thanks Mark.... Great to meet you as well..... I have a few intersting shots that I'm not sure when I will post them..... I dragging and desperately need some sleep..... Once I get some, I'll post them - Bill

(Unfortunately I can post from work but can't sleep here)

Edited January 25, 2009 by Photounit

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Figures, i miss yet another one!!

I am the white cloud!!

[JTF429 37]

Book photo unit think book. Great pic's.

[x134 46]

Bill, From the looks of things you still aren't getting much sleep as per our lengthy conversations at Copperfields the other night at 1am. lol...... keep those pictures coming. Edited January 25, 2009 by x134

[Guest FireChick4089]

Figures, i miss yet another one!!

I am the white cloud!!

Yeah, Well I was totally asleep and vaguely remember hearing scanner voices but it totally didn't register that there was a fire. Besides by that time 21 and 67 were like long gone.

[car9 0]

Figures, i miss yet another one!!

I am the white cloud!!

Don't feel bad bud I was away for this one too...Bill always great to see your pics..well done on all fronts..Our district has been busy (EFFD) and you are always there to capture moments Thank You.

[x129K 1,393]

I always enjoy the EFFD pics...

Bill - do you keep track of your yearly hours/miles spent photographing fires?

[JetPhoto 626]

I was reading the IA for this call and they clearly had a priority to leave the driveway for the truck. Being in a department that doesn't have the benefit of a truck, I guess I don't consider this too often. When I volunteered in a department with a truck, the first due engine company and the truck company generally responded simultaneously so there wasn't much of a delay.

For the chiefs out there with more experience than me... would you complicate the initial attack of a fire like this in an uncomplicated residence to leave room for the truck coming several minutes later? Now it doesn't seem to be an issue here, as the road looks to be nearby and the front yard is pretty clear. I fought several fires in development houses like this, even in a department with a truck company, and we generally found that putting up 2 ground ladders was quicker and more effective than the tower. It also allows you to position the first due engine for the initial attack and may not waste valuable minutes while the fire doubles in size.

While I see your point and somewhat agree, I had questioned the same thing when they said it was a 1 story s/f/d. Looking at these pictures and remembering the volume of fire the Chief and the first police officers on the scene reported I think the chief made that decision in case they had to go to an exterior attack. The truck would then be able to be on top of the fire. It didn't sound like it went that far due to a strong defensive attack, shoving the 2 1/2 in the front door and holding it to the back of the structure.

Also looking at an Ariel photo of this house it really wasn't far off the road.

Good job East Fishkill...and of course Bill with the great pictures.

(Bill I'll be the first in line for the book)

Edited January 25, 2009 by JetPhoto

[xfirefighter484x 234]

While I see your point and somewhat agree, I had question the same thing when they said it was a 1 story s/f/d. Looking at these pictures and remembering the volume of fire the Chief and the first police officers on the scene reported......

Our prestigious local police forces (EFPD and NYSP), do have a "SLIGHT" tendency to say EVERY fire they arrive at is "fully involved/engulfed".

[JetPhoto 626]

Our prestigious local police forces (EFPD and NYSP), do have a "SLIGHT" tendency to say EVERY fire they arrive at is "fully involved/engulfed".

Not just the EFPD

[NWFDMedic 58]

While I see your point and somewhat agree, I had questioned the same thing when they said it was a 1 story s/f/d. Looking at these pictures and remembering the volume of fire the Chief and the first police officers on the scene reported I think the chief made that decision in case they had to go to an exterior attack. The truck would then be able to be on top of the fire. It didn't sound like it went that far due to a strong defensive attack, shoving the 2 1/2 in the front door and holding it to the back of the structure.

Also looking at an Ariel photo of this house it really wasn't far off the road.

Good job East Fishkill...and of course Bill with the great pictures.

(Bill I'll be the first in line for the book)

Yeah, like I said, it doesn't seem to apply here but I was just throwing an idea out there. It looks like EF did a great job considering the initial reports (and yes Nate, every fire is fully involved to some police officers or laypeople). I was just kinda throwing it out there not as a criticism but a point of discussion. The other thing I noticed is that I don't see a secondary ladder to the structure, but I'm guessing it was probably set up on the 3 side, maybe near the 2/3 corner?

[ny10570 745]

I was reading the IA for this call and they clearly had a priority to leave the driveway for the truck. Being in a department that doesn't have the benefit of a truck, I guess I don't consider this too often. When I volunteered in a department with a truck, the first due engine company and the truck company generally responded simultaneously so there wasn't much of a delay.

For the chiefs out there with more experience than me... would you complicate the initial attack of a fire like this in an uncomplicated residence to leave room for the truck coming several minutes later? Now it doesn't seem to be an issue here, as the road looks to be nearby and the front yard is pretty clear. I fought several fires in development houses like this, even in a department with a truck company, and we generally found that putting up 2 ground ladders was quicker and more effective than the tower. It also allows you to position the first due engine for the initial attack and may not waste valuable minutes while the fire doubles in size.

Typical 1 to 2 story residential I agree, you don't need a truck. Generally on a surround and drown you're losing the structure. You also have pretty decent access to the entire structure from exterior windows.

There is however the school of thought where no one sets foot on wood frame residential roof unless they're tied to an aerial. There is also the argument that you don't need vertical ventilation in these structures, that smart horizontal ventilation is as effective and less dangerous. I've heard convincing arguments for all. What is clear especially with newer construction these roofs don't hold up to fire. So I guess go with what works for you so long as you CYA.

Edited January 25, 2009 by ny10570

[runaway21 0]

Figures, i miss yet another one!!

I am the white cloud!!

You and me both! I was being a slave to society at work I think I am more of a white cloud then you are!

As always great shots Bill!

It's always nice to see pictures from incidents I get to hear about or am listening to on the radio.. it gives it a broader image of what I hear... and what I missed as always :-(

[grumpyff 1,159]

I am always amazed at the quality of your photos, they are excellent.

As for the placement of an incoming ladder, usually the engine does not have to move that much further to be out of the way, depending on the location of the fire in the building, and the direction of the incoming ladder. I was always taught, either pull past the building, or stop short, you can always add hose to a line, but not ladder to the aerial, (although I did have one officer tell me you can always carry a ground ladder ). Think about it, one length of hose, 50 feet gives a lot of room for an incoming ladder to position in front of a structure.

[Guest Photounit]

Here are some more images.....

A shot from the "B-C" side as a member of the Village of Fishkills FAST team sizes up the building and fire conditions........

Firefighters made quick work of the fire on the ground level...... The trouble was the fire above......

Tight squeeze for the truck...... The car was in the way of the outriggers so they gave the car a little push with the same and the car slid across the ice allowing proper deployment......

A side shot..... They were almost able to straddle the car......

Working the roof....... Firefighters Scott Beyer and George Christ open it up....... This same pair also worked the roof at the recent Innsbruck Lane fire.....

[PoqFFEMT 6]

Once again, fantastic shots Bill!

[DOC22 1]

Great Shots, once again, Bill!!!!!!! And a great job done by all involved!!!

[Guest]

Excellent Photos and an excellent job done by EFFD!

[x129K 1,393]

Pushing the car with the outriggers - awesome...

Bill all of those shots are great - represent the work being done amazingly!

Sucks for the homeowner...it looks like the deck was set up for partying!

[lad45der 78]

I would like to thank the LCC for his driving skills, It's nice to see the extra effort before crying i can't get the truck in Chief.

[16fire5 693]

I was reading the IA for this call and they clearly had a priority to leave the driveway for the truck. Being in a department that doesn't have the benefit of a truck, I guess I don't consider this too often. When I volunteered in a department with a truck, the first due engine company and the truck company generally responded simultaneously so there wasn't much of a delay.

For the chiefs out there with more experience than me... would you complicate the initial attack of a fire like this in an uncomplicated residence to leave room for the truck coming several minutes later? Now it doesn't seem to be an issue here, as the road looks to be nearby and the front yard is pretty clear. I fought several fires in development houses like this, even in a department with a truck company, and we generally found that putting up 2 ground ladders was quicker and more effective than the tower. It also allows you to position the first due engine for the initial attack and may not waste valuable minutes while the fire doubles in size.

I would leave room for the truck if at all possible. I would have the engine pull past if possible. Two reasons on the engine pulling past instead of stoping short. 1. In most cases it is easier if the truck dosen't have to try to pass the engine on the way in. 2. Having the hose bed facing the structure makes stretching lines a lot easier for the limmited manpower we face.

Using the truck has a few benifits over gound ladders.

1. Stability is unquestionable compared to the roof that is being attacked by the fire by the minute. Remember lightweight wood trusses have no ridgepole so the roof ladder is not anchored into anything of substance and the protection it affords is debateable.

2. Setup is usually faster and done with less manpower. Not the safest tactic but many career departments with 3 person staffing the driver ladders and proceeds to the roof alone.

As for venting peaked roof houses I think it depends on location of the fire and construction. If the house is old like mine and balloon construction venting the roof is a good tactic even in a basement fire. Newer platform construction dosen't always benifit unless the fire area will be vented by the cut. In the pictures it is apparent that the fire was in the attic space so vertically venting was definatly called for to reduce horizontal extension and more importantly to keep that ceiling from being blown down on the attack team.

Good pics and discussion.