Sleepy Hollow ambulance corps member crashes official vehicle, charged with DWI

[helicopper 1,050]

As ALS pointed out, who among us has not made the mistake of having a drink or two too many before getting behind the wheel? I know it has certainly happened to me where I got home and realized I shouldn't have driven. Yes there is a difference between having a drink too many at diner and stealing a vehicle from your VAC but his crime was as severe as some are making this out to be.

Professionals and volleys abuse drugs and alcohol. For every story of one side I'm sure you can find one on the other.

This is NOT a paid/volunteer issue. Yes, there are people with various substance abuse problems/issues in every walk of life and yes people make mistakes every day BUT stealing a vehicle from your agency and driving it with a BAC of .19 is far more than an oops I had a couple but drove home anyway.

Two wrongs don't make it right anyway.

[x635 4,066]

Wow, what a thread.

And what about everyone gushing with care and concern about how he is sick and needs help and it's not his fault? If you can't control yourself when you drink, DON'T!

You've never taken the keys away from someone who was to drunk to drive? I have, on several occasions. We're in this business to help people, and that includes our own. It's one thing to sit here and preach about what should happen in an ideal world, and a tottally different thing to actually take action and suggest solutions based on facts.

[helicopper 1,050]

Well, if you are convicted of misdemeanors or felonies and try to take an EMT course you can't sign the application for emergency medical services certification and the state then needs to review your case.

Not sure how reporting works for currently certified individuals (not applicable in this particular situation, though). I assume someone would need to contact EMS.

State Policy on Certification for Persons with Criminal Convictions

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/02-02.htm

From Part 800...

800.16 SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION OF CERTIFICATION

Any certification issued pursuant to this Part may be suspended for a fixed period, revoked or annulled, or the certificate holder may be censured, reprimanded, or fined in accordance with section 12 of the Public Health Law, after a hearing conducted pursuant to section 12-a of the Public Health Law, the department determines that the certificate holder:

(a) has failed to comply with the requirements of section 800.15 of this Part;

(b.) has been found guilty of either fraud, deceit, incompetence, patient abuse, theft, or dishonesty in the performance of the certificant's duties and practice;

© has been found guilty of fraud or deceit in the procuring of certification;

(d) has been convicted of any crime or crimes related to murder, manslaughter, assault, sexual abuse, theft, robbery, drug abuse or sale of drugs unless the department finds that such conviction or charges do not demonstrate a present risk or danger to patients;

(e) has provided patient care or driven an ambulance or other emergency medical services response vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any other drug affecting physical coordination or intellectual functions;

(f) has knowingly aided or abetted another in practice as an emergency medical technician who is not certified as such; or

(g) has held him or herself out as being certified at a higher level than actually certified, or has used skills restricted to individuals holding a higher level of certification.

[27east 19]

You've never taken the keys away from someone who was to drunk to drive? I have, on several occasions. We're in this business to help people, and that includes our own. It's one thing to sit here and preach about what should happen in an ideal world, and a tottally different thing to actually take action and suggest solutions based on facts.

Yes, I have. Glad you have too. I have also called a cab for myself. That's not what I meant. Dosen't matter what business you're in, if someone you are out with has had too much, you do what you have to do.

Believe me, I know the world is not perfect. I was simply stating my opinion. And yes it is a totally different thing to take action. But let's remember that sometimes the solutions do not always work.

[NYMedic37 22]

Unless it is Fire-based EMS, there is very little, if any, tax dollar going into EMS in Westchester. There is a reason that EMS does 10x the calls of fire, yet our toys (vehicles) cost 10%.

And I have to say, I am amazed at the direction that this discussion has taken. Here is one of our "brothers" who obviously has a problem, and has made some bad decisions. He needed help, and didn't get it. I might be as guilty as the next guy, I did little to help him when he was under my command. But it is the nature of volunteering in Westchester. We don't have health benefits, human resources, or other fancy things that you would need to give him the help he needed. We need manpower so bad that we take the people least suited to provide it.

Now he is in trouble, and people are blaming Sleepy Hollow? What about the story about a firefighter that went joyriding with a girl and flipped the engine? I didn't see a single post about "how he got the keys. Heck, people even defended him. This is a terrible situation, one that will have lifelong consequences for someone we would have called a "brother" last week. And if you guys want to see how others view us, take a look at the lohud comments. These people thought/felt this way about us before some guy crashed a used police car. Why?

We still pay the price either thru tax dollars, insurance revenue recovery or donations so that money used to purchase vehicles or gear should not be used for people's personal use. It should be used strictly for EMS or Fire use.

[GAW6 66]

First of all, I cannot speak for all VACs, but in mine all new members go through an interview process. Rules are explained, references are checked, etc. We have had people complete applications for membership and are not accepted due to the applicants history, etc.

As far as discipline - there's plenty in my VAC. This guy would be thrown out without batting an eye. This past summer I had a member who was in the news for doing something stupid (no one was harmed, was not done on VAC property and what he did really wasn't "illegal") but because the VAC was brought in to it on the news, he was suspended for 30-days.

Someone misses (2) calls on their shift, they are suspended for 30-days. I do not accept the "it's volunteer" attitude. There are rules and regulations attached - if you can't accept them, then get out or don't join. EMS is serious business - and should be treated that way whether you're paid or not.

This Sleepy Hollow VAC guy was actually living in our district at one point and showed interest in joining. When he heard our rules and regulations - he said "this VAC wasn't for him - too many rules". So I think that shows his character.

This should not be a career vs. volunteer. This could happen anywhere - and I am sure it has - paid or vollie.

[gamewell45 258]

I can't take my STATE vehicle to get a meal so its in how you look at it I have this realy cool item called a lunch box. I carry enough food for 16 hours of work at all times since I can get stuck at work with out warning. So I see a fire vehicle used to get a meal as a waste of taxpayer money

Amen Brother!

[squ1d30 3]

Amen Brother!

there is no reason for this to be a paid/volly issue. the fact is the kid screwed up, everyone makes mistakes, some more sever then otherr but none of us should throw stones. if hes found guilty let the courts deal with that, as well as the agency involved. as far as the comments on wasting taxpayers money by using an emergency vehiche for a food run, thats another story. as far as when i am at work i do my best to come to work prepared for my shift meals and all. occasionally i dont, or even if we feel like getting something different fo a meal we do take a department vehicle to the store food establishment etc. on my job i am expected to be able to respond at all times while on duty, so that means if i stop at the store returning from a run, or a detail etc. i am still ecpected to be ready to work. this aslo serves another purpose, it gets us out in the community in which we serve, meeting the residents, looking at buildings, picking up hints or problems that can/may arise if theres an emergency at that location. its called community involvement, preplanning, TRAINING! i cannot speak for other organizations but when me and my crew go out for whatever reason, yes even lunch, we discuss these things all the time. "hey joe did you see that new sign over the entrance to that store?"" Yeah bob that can be an issue if we have a fire there." Open your minds people its not all just a "JOYRIDE" this is my, yours and our lives here, paid and volly alike!

stay safe and watch out for each other, there are people out there not on our side!

Squid

[JFLYNN 681]

I can't take my STATE vehicle to get a meal so its in how you look at it I have this realy cool item called a lunch box. I carry enough food for 16 hours of work at all times since I can get stuck at work with out warning. So I see a fire vehicle used to get a meal as a waste of taxpayer money

Wow, even I don't want to touch a lot of items which were brought up in this thread...

However, I would ask, at your job, are you provided with a meal period during which time you are not assigned any duties? Do you normally work 24 hour shifts? Typically, these are the differences between career law enforcement and career firefighters in regard to meals and is why career fd's take apparatus to get a meal. Almost every career fd I have ever heard of does not get guaranteed down time for a meal. Meals are fit in between responses and are often ruined due to the necessity to respond to an alarm and must be replaced. It would be unreasonable to expect firefighters to bring in enough food for 24 hours in addition to enough food to replace what might be ruined as a result of responding to an alarm. Also, most times you see a career fire apparatus at the food store, they are combining the food run with a needed fuel run, or trip to the repair shop, required inspections, training, etc., etc.

[x635 4,066]

Most EMS providers don't even have a chance to eat or in a lot of cases, facilities to cook in. Our version of a "ruined meal" is called a regular shift. Most of the time, when you see an EMS Vehicle at a fast food resturant, they are combining it inbetween transports or hoping they don't get a run- which, 9 times out of 10, they do. In a lot of cases, the only meal is the pop tart you stick in the door pocket or something you steal out of the nurses lounge. And you often have to eat while enroute somehwere, in the front of the ambulance where you live for 8, 12, or even 24 hours. To make or bring a meal with you....most providers work too many jobs to make ends meet and are too tired to deal with that when they get home. What an unhealthy career.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Wow, what a thread.

But while reading this thread, several comments jump out at me. Why anyone would admit that they have driven a car while impared on a public website? Another one was someone saying they had recorded conversations about this kid involved and another person. Brilliant. And what about everyone gushing with care and concern about how he is sick and needs help and it's not his fault? If you can't control yourself when you drink, DON'T!

LOL. Some would admit it because almost no one could possibly deny it. I don't live in a world of denial like far to many do. And the website isn't that public that you cannot get all access unless your a member. Nothing earth shattering there...is there?

Secondly...re-read the post about the conversation that was on a recording. The comments that jump out at me are the ones that people self interpret posts or apparently don't read the whole thing.

Sorry if you can't take your car to get meals...but I can. I'll worry about what is a waste of taxpayer dollars in that regard when I don't see apparatus going 2 to 3 counties and into other states for parades. Most tie in the meal run with other responsibilities of the day like getting fuel, road test, building inspections etc. I don't know what 'state' car the brother drives...but it would be the first one I've seen not getting a meal or cup of coffee etc.

[mfkap 0]

In a lot of cases, the only meal is the pop tart you stick in the door pocket or something you steal out of the nurses lounge.

So YOU are the one stealing food out of my lounge?!

[abaduck 123]

I don't understand why some are making light of DUI's and DWI's.

If he had run over an 8 year old girl, I think we'd all be on the same page. He happened to make it back safely and now some are pretending like he's got some disease he needs treatment for? What he needed was a set of shiny handcuffs, which is exactly what he got. Now he needs the biggest book available to be thrown at him. Its absurd behavior regardless of whether or not he's a volunteer.

Not everyone drives under the influence either, that's nonsense. Many choose not to drink and drive. Do a lot of people do it? Yeah, but that doesn't make it any less of a crime. It doesn't diminish that its a poor choice with possibly deadly consequences.

Amen bro.

I'm going to criticize my adopted country here, and say that there seems to be a cultural problem with regards to drunk driving in the USA: despite all the laws and programs, there's a degree of social tolerance of it, it seems. I've seen a number of posts which give the impression of making light of what happened here, saying 'he should have been helped', and saying stuff along the lines of 'who hasn't driven when they've had one too many?'. Well I sure as hell haven't, and back in the UK, where I was raised, driving drunk really has become socially unacceptable: the vast majority of people there have never driven drunk and wouldn't even consider doing so.

The UK has a lower drinking age, higher alcohol consumption - and much lower incidence of drunk driving. You get an absolute minimum of one year banned from driving for any drink-driving offense (including refusing a test) and it stays on your record for ten years - for the first few years you'll find it hard to get insurance, and extremely expensive. If your work involves driving... better get used to the dole, very few people will employ a drink-driver.

I hope this guy gets the book thrown at him. I'm not an unsympathetic guy, but in this case... zero sympathy from me.

[joetnymedic 43]

OK maybe some didn't understand my post. first let me say yes he drove a car drunk, yes he took the car when he shouldn't have. And yes thank God he only wrecked the car and didn't kill someone. Now as for saying he has a problem - that's evident by his actions. Should he have drove the car in the first place - the answer is no. Who knows maybe he thought he wasn't drunk. How many people do we see in the course of our job that honestly say they've had too much to drink, not many. Most won't admit it. To those who have taken the keys from someone, thank you you probably saved their life. Now, What I was also trying to say is this guys actions should not have a blanket effect on the views of Sleepy Hollow nor EMS. Yes, it was pointed out that it was a Sleepy Hollow vehicle and John Q. Public can't see for themselves that it's an individual and yes people tend to draw their own conclusions. But remember guys (and gals), they form uneducated decisions and that's why it had a blanket effect. But, the Journal News plastered Sleepy Hollow in the paper to people who don't know any better, they see Sleepy Hollow and associate it with the corps, or they see the word ambulance and it cast a shadow on everyone. I was not trying to stick up, or sugar coat anything either. But, it's obvious the person involved has an issue or issues that being said, while I agree he should be punished because he made some very bad choices here, I don't feel he needs to be locked up in jail for it, especially if this is his first brush with the law. He should have to pay for the damage, lose his driving privledges, have to attend at least 2 or 3 autopsies (I know this sounds morbid, but hopefully at least one of the persons was killed by a drunk driver), he should have to do a number of hours of community service and be on probation for a period and as a special condition, he needs to go for alcohol counseling and AA. His career in EMS is probably over too. Now why don't I think he should be locked up? Maybe because of 2 reasons. 1) I believe alcoholism is a disease and as it being a disease, if you don't treat it, it will get worse. 2) what kind of treatment is this kid going to get if he's locked up? I'm not sure about NY but I can tell you here in CT we are going thru crap right now with the state because guys get locked up and it's more like a warehouse for people, they don't learn anything that they can use to better their lives or get a job that pays above minimum wage and on top of that, when these guys get released, they literally get driven to another city and dropped off on the city streets with nothing and what's that going to accomplish? Nothing. This person has no where to go, no job, etc - he or she is going to re-offend and get locked up again and the cycle continues. And don't get me wrong, I feel that people who commit crimes against others, violent crimes, etc should be locked up. But we really need to look at things on a case by case basis. And as Seth said, this individual had some issues in the past but he tried to change, he tried to become a better person by getting into EMS. I don't know, these are just my opinions and I know alot of you aren't going to agree with me so I'm ready to take the heat. But then again please remember, these are my opinions, you are also entitled to yours and I will respect them.

Joe

[gamewell45 258]

Now why don't I think he should be locked up? Maybe because of 2 reasons. 1) I believe alcoholism is a disease and as it being a disease, if you don't treat it, it will get worse. 2) what kind of treatment is this kid going to get if he's locked up? I'm not sure about NY but I can tell you here in CT we are going thru crap right now with the state because guys get locked up and it's more like a warehouse for people, they don't learn anything that they can use to better their lives or get a job that pays above minimum wage and on top of that, when these guys get released, they literally get driven to another city and dropped off on the city streets with nothing and what's that going to accomplish? Nothing. This person has no where to go, no job, etc - he or she is going to re-offend and get locked up again and the cycle continues.

I think in many cases, society in general prefers to incarcerate the person and throw the key away and forget about the offender until his/her term has been completed. Its important to realize that people can be rehabilitated and become useful, productive citizens in society. I realize not every case will have a successful conclusion, but a certain percentage will be rehabed and no matter how small the percentage, its all worth it.

[pd125 0]

Sure see you Monday

New York State Deptartment of Corrections MAXIMUM security prison / Downstate Correctional facility

If you can make it past the gate

Which gate you talkin about? The one you walk thur or the one the boys on the buses use?

[Turborich 12]

State Policy on Certification for Persons with Criminal Convictions

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/02-02.htm

From Part 800...

800.16 SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION OF CERTIFICATION

Any certification issued pursuant to this Part may be suspended for a fixed period, revoked or annulled, or the certificate holder may be censured, reprimanded, or fined in accordance with section 12 of the Public Health Law, after a hearing conducted pursuant to section 12-a of the Public Health Law, the department determines that the certificate holder:

(a) has failed to comply with the requirements of section 800.15 of this Part;

(b.) has been found guilty of either fraud, deceit, incompetence, patient abuse, theft, or dishonesty in the performance of the certificant's duties and practice;

© has been found guilty of fraud or deceit in the procuring of certification;

(d) has been convicted of any crime or crimes related to murder, manslaughter, assault, sexual abuse, theft, robbery, drug abuse or sale of drugs unless the department finds that such conviction or charges do not demonstrate a present risk or danger to patients;

(e) has provided patient care or driven an ambulance or other emergency medical services response vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any other drug affecting physical coordination or intellectual functions;

(f) has knowingly aided or abetted another in practice as an emergency medical technician who is not certified as such; or

(g) has held him or herself out as being certified at a higher level than actually certified, or has used skills restricted to individuals holding a higher level of certification.

Since this individual let his card lapse prior I do not believe this will hold pertainence however for reference and discussion..

800.16 (E) states that Any certification issued pursuant to this Part may be suspended for a fixed period, revoked or annulled, or the certificate holder may be censured, reprimanded, or fined in accordance with section 12 of the Public Health Law, after a hearing conducted pursuant to section 12-a of the Public Health Law (if) the department determines that the certificate holder has provided patient care or driven an ambulance or other emergency medical services response vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any other drug affecting physical coordination or intellectual functions;

Questionable things about this-

"....if the department determines that the certificate holder has provided patient care or driven an ambulance or other emergency medical services response vehicle..."

The Department of Health has no authority over any vehicle owned or operated by an EMS agency that is not issued a NYS certification- this comes down to the agency itself/ AHD. From a glance it appears that this vehicle does not have a NYS certification sticker on it. If this is in fact a NYS DOH recognized EASV it must have a current NYS certified sticker on 3 sides of the vehicle, inspection sticker affixed to the right hand corner of the windshield, and be subject to inspection for minimum equipment standard (according to 10NYCRR-800.26) and on record at NYS DOH MARO and Troy (10NYCRR-800.21).

If this is just a lettered vehicle acquired by the squad not performing EMS 1st response duties and not a certified vehicle it is no more than an "agency car" as opposed to a NYS certified ALS First response vehicle or a NYS certified EASV, Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle, or other certified and state recognized vehicle... which brings up a whole other slew of legalities which I will not even mention.

If this was a certified EASV and the individual in question was responding to a call or on "duty crew" as a NYS certified provider that night it would be a nightmare for ALL parties involved.

I can't help but to reiterate that we are our own worst enemies when it comes to things like this whole situation. Good luck to the individual involved it will be a long road.

Agencies out there- take this case as a hint to look at your equipment usage, security, and drug & alcohol policies and revise if needed.

[Just a guy 493]

bottom line, this guy was drunk, he drove, he got into an accident, he got locked up... i'm sure he is already out of the VAC and thats about it. Does it make certain sections of the emergency services look bad ? of course it does but it is what it is.... this too shall pass

[mfkap 0]

I think in many cases, society in general prefers to incarcerate the person and throw the key away and forget about the offender until his/her term has been completed. Its important to realize that people can be rehabilitated and become useful, productive citizens in society. I realize not every case will have a successful conclusion, but a certain percentage will be rehabed and no matter how small the percentage, its all worth it.

This was my original point, but you said it much better. The problem here is that this person dedicated most of his life to EMS. Now he has lost that privilege through his own bad decisions and life choices. He did something terrible, and I hope he is punished. But after he has paid his price to society, what is he left with? Where can his life go? I hope that this can serve as a wake-up call for him and he can find another career to enjoy and succeed at. However, as those LEO's can probably attest to better than I, this can often open the door into more bad decisions with further consequences. For a guy that has some issues but at heart means well, it is sad to see.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Update for those who did not see:

Ambulance volunteer has license suspended after DWI charge

http://www.lohud.com/article/20090127/NEWS02/901270359