Proper use of Scott strap question

[x129K 1,393]

post with the photo in it

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopi...mp;#entry166094

Now do I think its a big deal. Yes and No. By looking at all the pics it looks like most of the FF's from City of Poughkeepsie are not wearing the straps. Now am I going to cry about i no I won't but I will raise hell the first time that they complain about the way a volunteer does something since it seems that carer FF's can do no wrong when a volunteer asks a question he gets called safty police. Maybe if we had Safty Officers at scenes then we would not have such a high number of LODD's.

As I was instructed at the NYSDOCS academy once you get complacent about the job thats when you get killed. The same applies to the fire service.

Sorry guy...I have to jump in here...you are singling out an entire, professional department over some pictures, and turning it into a vollie/career pissing match...again...

I don't give a crap about the waist strap debate...if that is all we are talking about - good - it must be a slow week...speaking of which - did you see that jackass on the front page of the Pojo today? Yep...he didnt have his waist strap done....shame, shame....

What I DO care about is your statement about "that they complain about the way a volunteer does something since it seems that carer FF's can do no wrong"....

To me - that is a direct hit to the PFD, and I can say - that I have not heard, not seen an ill statement made reference volunteers from anyone on the PFD since the days of the open rear seats on 2 and 2! In fact, they have become pretty damn vollie freindly in the past 15 years! Look at the amount of pictures from City jobs....look at all of the PFD guys doing training for volunteer departments...Hell - the Union President has trained HUNDREDS of EMT's for the volunteer rescue squads!

EVERY PFD member has always treated me with RESPECT and COURTESY...even though I am a volunteer...

Perhaps you should reword your post to reflect the same...

[Tanker 10eng 140]

Wow, if memorys serve me right, just last week we were all reminded to stop taken things personally... I never called out this officer, just the practice of not using the waist strap, and it is multipled by being on an aerial ladder... To the officer in question, I apologize if he or anyone thinking I am trying to make him look bad... I am not !!!

im sick of all the keyboard commandos writing esp when its about people who are way more experienced

a statement made from someone without an open mind.... your profile states your 21 -24, do you know anything about the people writing comments here.... I fought my first structure fire before you were born.... open your mind and see what I was pointing out, not putting down a " brother " of yours ....

but this topic about this pic probably wont change how anybody operates,

not sure about many others, but just about all of the NYS and County courses I have taken in the last 10 years have had classroom lessons were pictures ( power point presentations ) and videos are shown to the students... pictures which are used to make a point, to teach and to improve what we take from the class.... yes, when the lights go off, I am awake and watching and learning... if your statement is true, then maybe the designers who are creating our courses need to stop the practice of using photos... I signed up for this site to be able to discuss issues and to better myself.. not to put anyone down...

maybe 4 - 5 years ago, a Yorktown Chief was ripped apart for not wearing gloves during overhaul operations, and his picture was posted here... points were made and we discussed it... whats the big deal... all sides were heard.

What a bunch of old ladies

so I guess your Department's safety officer is nothing more then a witch....

Yes, in my own department, we will address issues like this... as a senior member I will step forward and warn members when they are doing unsafe actions... is it not what we are supposed to do ? are we not supposed to look out for each others backs, and do what ever we can do to keep each other safe ?

Or should we just shut our mouth and let things happen as they may.... if he fell off that ladder, and was put to an end... would everyone juts go home and say oh well ?, I should of said something to " LOUIE "?? would it bother anyone that they never stepped forward and said something ?? but I am sure everyone would find a way to place blame on the fire dept. for not providing proper safety equipment.. then who is responsible.... the safety officer, chiefs, and line officers...

Maybe 2 months ago, or less, a question was put forth about what can be done to get more people to start posting, so I elected to step forward and start posting.... I see the reason why I did not post much in the first few years here, no matter what you say or state, someone out there is going to be upset and start whining... and you become the bad guy, which will only get people to just read and leave... if they even bother to come back, is that what EMTBRAVO is about ?

To close, I did not attack the officer.... I do not care if he is a Career man or a Volunteer.... stop reading this as a personal attack on an individual... I care that this practice continues today, and hope no one every falls victem to it..

[Guest ECAFD3]

The original poster asked a question to generate some discussion on a post, so what I didn't see it as taking a shot at anyone. We see pictures online, in trade publications, in classes and talk about it. So its a career officer so what. Nobody questioned how many years he had on the job or anything about him. ECAFD3 you asked how many LODD occured because of an unbuckled waist strap. Does it matter if it is 1 or 20. If this was a firefighter from kalamazoo would you be getting all bent out of shape? AJ :angry:

I like your smiley face it was cute. You find me one LODD from waist strap just one. Why do we even generate discussion about this ? Is he going to hurt anyone else by not wearing it ? NO and as far as the strap getting caught and him falling lets stop being so dramatic

[Guest ECAFD3]

Sorry guy...I have to jump in here...you are singling out an entire, professional department over some pictures, and turning it into a vollie/career pissing match...again...

I don't give a crap about the waist strap debate...if that is all we are talking about - good - it must be a slow week...speaking of which - did you see that jackass on the front page of the Pojo today? Yep...he didnt have his waist strap done....shame, shame....

What I DO care about is your statement about "that they complain about the way a volunteer does something since it seems that carer FF's can do no wrong"....

To me - that is a direct hit to the PFD, and I can say - that I have not heard, not seen an ill statement made reference volunteers from anyone on the PFD since the days of the open rear seats on 2 and 2! In fact, they have become pretty damn vollie freindly in the past 15 years! Look at the amount of pictures from City jobs....look at all of the PFD guys doing training for volunteer departments...Hell - the Union President has trained HUNDREDS of EMT's for the volunteer rescue squads!

EVERY PFD member has always treated me with RESPECT and COURTESY...even though I am a volunteer...

Perhaps you should reword your post to reflect the same...

I totally agree thanks for your post

[xfirefighter484x 234]

I always hear guys using the excuse "oh well, in the event I go down, its easier to fashion into a rescue harness in between the legs because its already unbuckled!"

Truth be told, its actually easier to make that rescue harness out of the straps if they are worn in the correct fashion, because they don't flop around and get lost behind a victim, or wedged between the patient's back and the pack itself, God forbid they DO go down. Then it takes more effort to get the straps out from under them, then adjust them, and get the patient packaged. At least if they are worn correctly, you know where they are, and saves time!!

This is merely secondary to what the above people have mentioned. It does take a great deal of weight off of your shoulders, and will save your back a lot of stress/strain in the long run!

Should you wear the waist strap..absolutely. It is the proper way to wear the device and keeps the weight on your hips which is designed to reduce fatigue. I also often discuss that it is easier to find th e strap in the event you have to be put into the SCBA harness as taught to FAST members if it is buckled in place instead of free floating. I also try to limit the amount of things hanging from me and my gear when operating as I don't want to have any increased chance at becoming entangled.

Gee, I wonder who/where I learned this from???

[Guest ECAFD3]

a statement made from someone without an open mind.... your profile states your 21 -24, do you know anything about the people writing comments here.... I fought my first structure fire before you were born.... open your mind and see what I was pointing out, not putting down a " brother " of yours ...."

who cares when you fought your structure ? what does that or my age have to do with anything ? do you know anything about me ? nope so maybe you should take your own advice

[16fire5 693]

What do the manufacturers say about facial hair? How about NYS for training purposes? Maybe when the career departments get all their members to use the waist straps on their SCBAs the vounteer departments can control their members facial hair. Oh and this starts at the top too not a week goes by that I don't see a chief on tv with a goatee commenting on a fire. In the end see nobodys perfect.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I like your smiley face it was cute. You find me one LODD from waist strap just one. Why do we even generate discussion about this ? Is he going to hurt anyone else by not wearing it ? NO and as far as the strap getting caught and him falling lets stop being so dramatic

I think I hit my thoughts on the topic pretty solid...but I have to say that what difference would it make if you can find one LODD attributed from a waist strap issue? And if there is one tomorrow what would that mean? You'll flip and say we should all wear it? If one does occur...I would say one too many. I'd prefer when it came to our job that its not treated like the FAA does to the airline industry.

The fact still remains that the proper way to wear the device is with the waist strap. The fact still remains that unless it is department policy to do such, then there is no way to make it so.

Either way..be your own person and I'll still continue to instruct on the benefits and importance of wearing one and being your own person no matter what the guy next to you may be doing counterintuative to what they should be.

I would really wonder what would be said if there was picture of me, with nothing but my waist strap on because I find the the shoulder straps to be 'uncomfortable'.

With that said...enough with the pissing and testosterone matches. The arguments of who would say what if whoever in the picture was whatever goes both ways.

[Danger 160]

Mickey Mantle didn't wear a batting helmet, what a jerk!

I get what the point of the original poster is and it is valid. But I also see where the other people are coming from. At the risk of sounding corny...I've had the honor of following that officer in to a burning building and the pat on the back and "Good job, son" after it was over is one of the high points of my short career and something I'll never forget. Regardless of your intentions, things like this can get misconstrued as an indictment of a single person. And it's just not right to put that on someone in public. Things are missed in the heat of the moment all the time and while it doesn't make them right, every little thing can't be QB'd from the armchair.

I agree with the clipper...Let's discuss why the vollies aren't showing up and how stop them from laying off the career men.

"Oh, these things have waist straps?" - clipper

[RDUNC67 1]

I think I hit my thoughts on the topic pretty solid...but I have to say that what difference would it make if you can find one LODD attributed from a waist strap issue? And if there is one tomorrow what would that mean? You'll flip and say we should all wear it? If one does occur...I would say one too many. I'd prefer when it came to our job that its not treated like the FAA does to the airline industry.

The fact still remains that the proper way to wear the device is with the waist strap. The fact still remains that unless it is department policy to do such, then there is no way to make it so.

Either way..be your own person and I'll still continue to instruct on the benefits and importance of wearing one and being your own person no matter what the guy next to you may be doing counterintuative to what they should be.

I would really wonder what would be said if there was picture of me, with nothing but my waist strap on because I find the the shoulder straps to be 'uncomfortable'.

With that said...enough with the pissing and testosterone matches. The arguments of who would say what if whoever in the picture was whatever goes both ways.

Well said !

[Guest JHK3605]

Sorry guy...I have to jump in here...you are singling out an entire, professional department over some pictures, and turning it into a vollie/career pissing match...again...

I don't give a crap about the waist strap debate...if that is all we are talking about - good - it must be a slow week...speaking of which - did you see that jackass on the front page of the Pojo today? Yep...he didnt have his waist strap done....shame, shame....

What I DO care about is your statement about "that they complain about the way a volunteer does something since it seems that carer FF's can do no wrong"....

To me - that is a direct hit to the PFD, and I can say - that I have not heard, not seen an ill statement made reference volunteers from anyone on the PFD since the days of the open rear seats on 2 and 2! In fact, they have become pretty damn vollie freindly in the past 15 years! Look at the amount of pictures from City jobs....look at all of the PFD guys doing training for volunteer departments...Hell - the Union President has trained HUNDREDS of EMT's for the volunteer rescue squads!

EVERY PFD member has always treated me with RESPECT and COURTESY...even though I am a volunteer...

Perhaps you should reword your post to reflect the same...

At least you had your safety belt on (sorry guys inside joke)

[INIT915 1,119]

GDI!

Why does it ALWAYS digress to the paid/vollie crap?

Seriously.

It seems to me we can now read the posts and predict whether the poster is Fulltime or Volunteer before even looking at who wrote it, and predict correctly 98% of the time.

[ny10570 745]

I like your smiley face it was cute. You find me one LODD from waist strap just one. Why do we even generate discussion about this ? Is he going to hurt anyone else by not wearing it ? NO and as far as the strap getting caught and him falling lets stop being so dramatic

Brooklyn. Captain's SCBA straps became caught up in bicycle in the hallway.

[x134 46]

I have not said anything about this topic till now. 1 I agree with ALS, find LODD because a waist strap wasn't buckled. 2 I didnt use to wear a waist strap either years ago, I thought it was cool not to also. Now I know better , and the reasons we all should wear it. 3 I know LT. Levin aka ''MO'' AKA ''LEVINO'' very well, for over 20 years. Great guy, great as a firefighter and an even better fire officer. I know that this isnt about that. I don't want to see anyone get injured either.

Could it be even for a second that he had to reajust on the roof? could it be that he just didnt buckle? Could it be that he had it off on the roof,could it be a bad habbit or a prefrence of his? we don't know. Why don't we ask him. Stop by the Main street firehouse and I am sure he would entertain any questions. Or PM him or ask some Poughkeepsie brothers on this forum.......

Now please put this to rest.

Donald P.

[jayhalsey 6]

I like your smiley face it was cute. You find me one LODD from waist strap just one. Why do we even generate discussion about this ? Is he going to hurt anyone else by not wearing it ? NO and as far as the strap getting caught and him falling lets stop being so dramatic

Well, it is actually the fall that will either injure or kill someone. And that happens all too frequently. The cause of the fall can be anything, so why shouldnt we try to limit the chances of something getting caught and throwing us off balance?

[MJP399 4]

Seems to me that a legit question was asked. He didn't single out any person, did not single out a department, just went off of what he observed in the photo. He tried to educate himself on the topic, as how I thought that this forum was supposed to do.

So why bother posting if you can't use this forum and site for what it was intended for, to develop as a first responder. To ask questions to further yourself, and to explore and discuss topics in a professional manner. Seems that the topic got off hand, as when I read the topic, I figured "I use the scott pack often, what can I learn from this discussion". Instead besides from several very good post by members that often do an excellent job in posting and keeping it professional and informative in my opinion, it has digressed into whether someone has caused a personal attack on an individual or different sectors of the force (career v paid) etc.

I think if it were an illustrated figure and not an actual fire ground picture, the same question would of been brought out. And if we take the personal factor out from our opinions and work on the discussion at hand. Than possibly we can learn a thing or two from this discussion.

One bit of advice that I have taken away from the topic besides from what the original poster had stated, but what Als had mentioned about the FAST issue as it made me think about what I had learned from my fellow members speaking about the subject, and got me to think this morning.

"Should you wear the waist strap..absolutely. It is the proper way to wear the device and keeps the weight on your hips which is designed to reduce fatigue. I also often discuss that it is easier to find th e strap in the event you have to be put into the SCBA harness as taught to FAST members if it is buckled in place instead of free floating. I also try to limit the amount of things hanging from me and my gear when operating as I don't want to have any increased chance at becoming entangled."

Edited January 19, 2009 by MJP399

[RDUNC67 1]

For the record i was not questioning how that particular man was doing his job and i know that alot of people in the area have learned alot from him and the outstanding members of PFD, but we need to realize that if a photo is going to be posted on this site it will most likely be "critiqued" to the very end. It should not be (and hopefully is not) taken personally. If that is the way he or anyone else chooses to do their job, so be it. We really need to move on...

[x134 46]

For the record i was not questioning how that particular man was doing his job and i know that alot of people in the area have learned alot from him and the outstanding members of PFD, but we need to realize that if a photo is going to be posted on this site it will most likely be "critiqued" to the very end. It should not be (and hopefully is not) taken personally. If that is the way he or anyone else chooses to do their job, so be it. We really need to move on...

I did not take it as you were attacking him or how he was doing his job. I just wanted to point out that he is a very knowledgable and experienced firefighter and many have benefitted from his on the job experience. I think alot of positive posts have come from this thread and it HAS become a learning experience and NOT a bash fest on an individual or a department.

I can say that I wear it because of the fatigue factor and so I don't get hung up in anything. I have also heard the same thing from guys I know that work the RESCUES, TRUCKS, AND ENGINES in the BIG CITY, and one of the reasons is you never know what you will come across in peoples homes to get tangled in. Things like bicycles,shopping carts ,motorcycles, and a big one is a burned up mattres.

[EJS1810 7]

I wonder how the debate would have gone if the OP had posted this picture?

[markmets415 524]

Most likely wouldn't have changed it as the pictures were viewed in the thread on the fire recently and most of the posters would have known where it came from and who is/was in the picture.

[snkbitn 2]

I did not take it as you were attacking him or how he was doing his job. I just wanted to point out that he is a very knowledgeable and experienced firefighter and many have benefited from his on the job experience. I think alot of positive posts have come from this thread and it HAS become a learning experience and NOT a bash fest on an individual or a department.

Could it be even for a second that he had to readjust on the roof? could it be that he just didn't buckle? Could it be that he had it off on the roof,could it be a bad habit or a preference of his? we don't know. Why don't we ask him. Stop by the Main street firehouse and I am sure he would entertain any questions. Or PM him or ask some Poughkeepsie brothers on this forum........

Enough Said!

[firecapt32 282]

Are we finally putting this to rest??

The air pack in question has shoulder straps and waist straps--the directions in the box say to ware the equipment properly and in normal conditions all straps must be fastened.

Personal prefrence aside thats what you should do. If you take any State Fire courses--thats the way you will be taught.

A photo is only a snapshot of a split second in time-- we should be looking at all photos to learn from if we can do that we are ahead of the game.

lets not forget we (the fire sirvice) are the ones that had to have the liners sewn into our coats because we kept taking them out.

We also had to have the PASS integrated into the air pack because we (collectively) didn't turn them on.

We also had to have a law passed in New York telling us not to have a live victim in a live fire because some one died.

Just more food for though for you guys to feast on. so go head and feast

[VAEMC 10]

114 LODDs in the fire service 2008... 3 already in January 2009… Countless injuries I'm sure... Most are repeated issues that lead to these loses unfortunately... That is why the obvious is stated.

[southendexpress 11]

i personally in my 3 years as a ff i have never used my waist straps. i only use them training so the officers dont yell at me.

[Guest JHK3605]

i personally in my 3 years as a ff i have never used my waist straps. i only use them training so the officers dont yell at me.

[Guest JHK3605]

i personally in my 3 years as a ff i have never used my waist straps. i only use them training so the officers dont yell at me.

So they only yell at training not on scenes?????????????????????/

[efd184 59]

i personally in my 3 years as a ff i have never used my waist straps. i only use them training so the officers dont yell at me.

moron comment!

this tops any stupid thing i have said!

Edited January 20, 2009 by efd184

[x648eng119 2]

I gotta side with EFD184 on that one.... That is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen.

And not for nothing, THE HORSE IS DEAD... STOP BEATING IT...

I've kept my mouth shut on numerous threads that run out of control like this but now it's getting so frustrating I couldn't stop myself from chiming in. And I'm sorry if I offend anyone, and moderators, feel free to say something, but this is getting out of control!

A simple question was asked about people's opinion on using the waist straps. And from the VERY FIRST REPLY people started getting defensive toward the subject of the picture.

No matter what is said on any forum, some people have been set in their ways for so long, they will not change them. Is it right, wrong, or indifferent? Well, in most cases, that's left up to the individuals opinions. Just as long as it doesn't put a life in danger.

It's getting to the point where a picture can't be posted or a discussion started without an out of line attack or comment towards an innocent question or statement... The one thing everyone has to remember about reading stuff online is YOU CAN'T ALWAYS JUDGE THE CONTEXT IT WAS SAID IN!!!!!!! In most cases here, it's not going to be taking a shot at anyone. So everyone grow up a bit, and think before you get so defensive!

Oh yeah, and QTIP!!!!!

Thats my rant!

[x648eng119 2]

Oh yeah.... one more gripe.... "KEYBOARD COMMANDO'S??????" Are you for real? I can't even comment any further on that one, because I know I'd be kicked off the forums for saying what I want to... :angry:

[Guest JHK3605]

I beleive any Picture that is taken can be picked apart by one person or another so we look at it and see what we see whether we argree with it or not hopefully we learn somtehing and move on.... Anything wrong with the picture on the homepage of emtbravo (just kidding)