"Benefits" of being a volunteer

[50-65 205]

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopi...mp;#entry163948

So as not to hijack another thread or take it off topic, I started this one in response to the referenced post.

[x129K 1,393]

NOTHING good can come from this one!

[50-65 205]

Well, I tried, unsuccessfully, to copy the referenced post.

Anyway, in addition to the mentioned wellness program, this is what I could think of off the top of my head.

LOSAP - $20/month per credit to a max of 30 years. Guarenteed 10 yr payout, beginning at age 60.

State mandated benefits under the VF workers comp laws.

State permitted tax breaks (I think $400 this year). In addition, I also write off mileage and expenses.

Well maintained apparatus and updated equipment.

Annual physical. Depending on the Dr. not always that thorough but always an EKG which I am supposed to have anyway.

Training.

Then the "incidentals": Dumpster for garbage, "free" hall rental, Cable TV, wireless internet, 1 meal/wk (after meetings/drills), a couple of dinners/yr, etc.

But, no "vacations", tuition reimbursement, scholorships, paid time off, sick leave, unemployment benefits, health insurance, uniform cleaning/allowance, overtime, shift differential, etc.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 50-65

[towerladder2 22]

Oh boy................................

[Guest]

This is a road i dont think many want to venture down

[Bnechis 3,961]

This is a road i dont think many want to venture down

And why is that?

[x129K 1,393]

And why is that?

As you are well aware of Cap, past practice here is that the career members see ANY sort of benefit/reward/perk/etc recieved by volunteers as "payment" in exchange for their service - and wonder how they can consider themselves volunteers...

There IS some merit to the thought, but it has been beat SO many times here, it's just not worth taking the bait... And while I respect him, I honestly doubt JFlynn's sincerity with his post in the other thread - he is just fishing.....

[Tanker 10eng 140]

Benefits......... hmmmmmm....

- cutting a local kid's backside from a brand new gym floor....

- helping a local guy to the hospital after injuried from a tree branch, only to have him as an assistant coach years later...

- putting out a kitchen fire at 3 in the morning to my son's friends house, and not loosing the house...

- helping pull out the childhood bully, who made me hate him, from a structure fire, sadly he died in the hopital days later..

- pushing in to a working laundry room fire, in a neighbor house up the street, saving thier house...

- cutting out numerous young adults from years of MVA's...

- showing up with need water for my firends in surrounding depts during time of need..

they list goes on and on, in my eyes, they can keep the couple of dollars I'll get when older !!! The food we get after calls or drills, ( hell the local DPW get food while making overtime, surely there should be no arguements there ), what does it really matter ????

I am doing this for one reason, to help the people in my town... at first I dreamed of getting a working fire, but once you see how rooted you are in your town, you realize that its going to be someone you know... so I do all this training, and respond to calls, for the benefit of seeing that I can help my neighbor and friends...

thats my benefit..

[Guest]

Benefits......... hmmmmmm....

- cutting a local kid's backside from a brand new gym floor....

- helping a local guy to the hospital after injuried from a tree branch, only to have him as an assistant coach years later...

- putting out a kitchen fire at 3 in the morning to my son's friends house, and not loosing the house...

- helping pull out the childhood bully, who made me hate him, from a structure fire, sadly he died in the hopital days later..

- pushing in to a working laundry room fire, in a neighbor house up the street, saving thier house...

- cutting out numerous young adults from years of MVA's...

- showing up with need water for my firends in surrounding depts during time of need..

they list goes on and on, in my eyes, they can keep the couple of dollars I'll get when older !!! The food we get after calls or drills, ( hell the local DPW get food while making overtime, surely there should be no arguements there ), what does it really matter ????

I am doing this for one reason, to help the people in my town... at first I dreamed of getting a working fire, but once you see how rooted you are in your town, you realize that its going to be someone you know... so I do all this training, and respond to calls, for the benefit of seeing that I can help my neighbor and friends...

thats my benefit..

That's the attitude more people should have. When people make these threads, they are aimed at stirring the pot. But when you look at Tanker 10eng's post, certain people should take a step back and say "that's how I should think"

my 2c

[PVFD233 68]

Benefits......... hmmmmmm....

- cutting a local kid's backside from a brand new gym floor....

- helping a local guy to the hospital after injuried from a tree branch, only to have him as an assistant coach years later...

- putting out a kitchen fire at 3 in the morning to my son's friends house, and not loosing the house...

- helping pull out the childhood bully, who made me hate him, from a structure fire, sadly he died in the hopital days later..

- pushing in to a working laundry room fire, in a neighbor house up the street, saving thier house...

- cutting out numerous young adults from years of MVA's...

- showing up with need water for my firends in surrounding depts during time of need..

they list goes on and on, in my eyes, they can keep the couple of dollars I'll get when older !!! The food we get after calls or drills, ( hell the local DPW get food while making overtime, surely there should be no arguements there ), what does it really matter ????

I am doing this for one reason, to help the people in my town... at first I dreamed of getting a working fire, but once you see how rooted you are in your town, you realize that its going to be someone you know... so I do all this training, and respond to calls, for the benefit of seeing that I can help my neighbor and friends...

thats my benefit..

Sweetness.

[ny10570 745]

I don't see a problem with chief's question. Tax payers deserve to know how their money is spent. Paid firefighters are sent for training around the country (Fairfax, Vegas, NYC, etc) have workout facilities, kitchens, lounges with TVs and DVD players (great for training, but the cable or satellite are for?) and sleeping quarters. PFD has a LOSAP rewards program funded through our Benevolence association which also sponsors a small tuition reimbursement ($200 per year I think) and our death benefit. Individual companies may have gym membership reimbursement and share the cost of shirts, sweatshirts, etc. The dept does a trip to the NYS Chiefs Convention where members are required to attend training and lectures. We don't use the building for outside social functions. No free gas, bar, etc.

I think the chief is expecting to see things on the scale of what Newsweek turned up in LI. Cruises to Cancun where a lecturer is hired to come along and speak for an our on the first day out, million dollar kitchens with $100,000 food and drink budgets.

[Remember585 815]

Benefits......... hmmmmmm....

- cutting a local kid's backside from a brand new gym floor....

- helping a local guy to the hospital after injuried from a tree branch, only to have him as an assistant coach years later...

- putting out a kitchen fire at 3 in the morning to my son's friends house, and not loosing the house...

- helping pull out the childhood bully, who made me hate him, from a structure fire, sadly he died in the hopital days later..

- pushing in to a working laundry room fire, in a neighbor house up the street, saving thier house...

- cutting out numerous young adults from years of MVA's...

- showing up with need water for my firends in surrounding depts during time of need..

they list goes on and on, in my eyes, they can keep the couple of dollars I'll get when older !!! The food we get after calls or drills, ( hell the local DPW get food while making overtime, surely there should be no arguements there ), what does it really matter ????

I am doing this for one reason, to help the people in my town... at first I dreamed of getting a working fire, but once you see how rooted you are in your town, you realize that its going to be someone you know... so I do all this training, and respond to calls, for the benefit of seeing that I can help my neighbor and friends...

thats my benefit..

I love you man!

Luckily, the attitude Tanker10Engr mentions is the attitutude of most of the members of my department, and all of those around me. I remember when the LOSAP thing was brought up in our department a few years ago, it was a vocal discussion to say the least. The "good guys" like Billy and so many others, saw this for what it is - A PAYOUT FOR THOSE THAT DON"T ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEPARTMENT WHEN IT COUNTS. I am glad we have it because there are members of our Department that fully deserve SOMETHING for all the time, complaints from their wives, time away from their families and risks they take over the years. None of the hardcore guys (and gals) that put up in any department really care about getting anything - they do it for the reasons like Billy mentioned above.

As far as "benefits" we get up here in Croton... (I've got nothing to hide)

LOSAP (Maybe, if the money is there down the road)

Tax Breaks (A State thing, not something we asked for, and not something everyone even takes advantage of)

Refreshments (in accordance to NFPA rehab requirements and sometimes after a meeting or class since most guys come straight from work and don't have time to eat. Further, many times the refreshments are paid for by the Chief or Instructor out of pocket in appreciation of their members showing up.)

Gym - nope. Our local one will not give us anything unless we are paid firefighters. (True story)

Vacations - nope. If a company does go to a convention the members pay for it unless the company wants to front the money, which is made up of dues and fines mostly. The Department pays for nothing.

Cancun trips - No, but if someone is offering to pay for it....

Our current Chief mentioned to me that the annual Firehouse Expo trip might get the ax, as it is nothing more then a vacation anymore since nobody is taking full advantage of the training offered there. We don't do NYSAFC anymore either, as it is a waste.

[50-65 205]

I know what he was fishing for. But I don't have anything to hide.

Only a few of the things mentioned are "taxpayer" money of which I am one. The remainder is money earned by the company through various fundraisers. If I don't approve of the way some of the money is used, I vote against it. I don't participate in out of town parades as I consider it to be a waste of resources.

We don't go away to exotic destinations for conventions. We will occaissionally send a member or two to Montour Falls if the class is not available locally. The way the state laws are written, we are not supposed to go out of state for training classes, even if it closer than one in-state.

I have been in career houses where the building is newer, larger, and better equipped than our own. If the taxpayers of those localities can afford it and don't have a problem with it, then fine.

Our building was built in the 60's on donated land with donated labor.

I don't begrudge the paid guys anything. In most cases, they certainly earn what they have. But I cannot, and most of my neighbors cannot, afford the tax bill that would come with a fully staffed, paid department.

As a union man myself, I understand that they would like every firefighter to be paid and a member of the IAFF. I wish every contractor were union too. But as a former self-employed contractor, I also understand that many simply cannot afford it.

And, as Tanker 10eng, mentioned in his post, those are the real rewards. The rest is incidental and in the long term mean very little.

[ajsbear 11]

Benefits I get, meeting some great people, making new friends and knowing I am doing something to help my neighbor that most of them can't or won't do. I do it for the personal gratification.

If I get a free bottle of water or coffee great.

[EJS1810 7]

What about the benefit of being exposed to EMTBravo and all the worthless pot stirring that goes on here.

Edited December 29, 2008 by EJS1810

[CFD320 35]

Square rooting questions like what are the benefits of being a volunteer are a perfect illistration of why volunteerism is almost dead.

It's about brotherhood and pride...

Can you imagine the response to a question such as this 30 years ago at a company meeting? Boo that man

[helicopper 1,050]

As you are well aware of Cap, past practice here is that the career members see ANY sort of benefit/reward/perk/etc recieved by volunteers as "payment" in exchange for their service - and wonder how they can consider themselves volunteers...

There IS some merit to the thought, but it has been beat SO many times here, it's just not worth taking the bait... And while I respect him, I honestly doubt JFlynn's sincerity with his post in the other thread - he is just fishing.....

I'm not a career FF so I don't know if I will be lumped into that generalization but anyway...

1. It isn't the career FF who perceive these things to be "payment" or compensation. It is the IRS, just ask them or your own accountant.

2. As a public service agency there should be no "secrets" and the "benefits" received by the membership should be public knowledge. It may improve recruitment/retention and it may also avoid the perceptions that there is any impropriety. Case in point, the NY Newsday series on the fire service made some blistering allegations about "perks" being received by members. Had the FD's announced that these things were being done, for whom, and based upon what criteria there would have been no news story.

So, what's the big deal? The only big deal I see is if you're paying for membership at a gym but still have unfit members. What are you getting for your money then?

To those who question the merit/appropriateness/etc. of this thread - go read the thread about "Brainstorming". This is apparently just what the membership wants. The ability to ask questions and seek information so why are you criticizing it?

[x129K 1,393]

...

I'm not a career FF so I don't know if I will be lumped into that generalization but anyway...

It's a different world, there are very few volunteer cops....if any.

1. It isn't the career FF who perceive these things to be "payment" or compensation. It is the IRS, just ask them or your own accountant.

True, but it IS a select few that are the most vocal about it here. That is the issue - reread my post you quoted.

2. As a public service agency there should be no "secrets" and the "benefits" received by the membership should be public knowledge. It may improve recruitment/retention and it may also avoid the perceptions that there is any impropriety. Case in point, the NY Newsday series on the fire service made some blistering allegations about "perks" being received by members. Had the FD's announced that these things were being done, for whom, and based upon what criteria there would have been no news story.

Agreed...100 percent.

So, what's the big deal? The only big deal I see is if you're paying for membership at a gym but still have unfit members. What are you getting for your money then?

To those who question the merit/appropriateness/etc. of this thread - go read the thread about "Brainstorming". This is apparently just what the membership wants. The ability to ask questions and seek information so why are you criticizing it?

The big deal, if you can call it "big", is that the subject is an obvious attempt by a known anti-volunteer member, to stir the pot. If you can't see that, I hope you are in patrol and not detectives!

As I mentioned - the question HAS some merit. I, and many other members are just not going to walk that road...WHY start yet another pissing match here?

[ckroll 101]

Well said Tanker 10Eng.

I volunteer and I'm paid.

I'm not sure we should limit the topic to benefits of being a volunteer. We do everything for a reason, be it love, money, power. One person works Fire/EMS and gets paid. Another does it for the big, red trucks and the sound of a siren. Another does it because a loss has touched them personally and they want to make a difference and give back. We do what we do because it makes us feel good. It buys groceries or it gives us a sense of meaning in our lives. And maybe it does all those things.

I will hazard a guess that there is not a vollie out there that does it for the meal at the end of the meeting or the shiny blue jacket. I will also hazard a guess that not many paid Fire/EMS are in it for the money alone, as there are a lot of easier jobs that pay more. 20 years ago I made almost as much as I'm making now as a paramedic being a contractor for IBM. If I'm working for half what I could be making does that make me paid or part volunteer?

The major benefit of Fire/EMS, irrespective of compensation, is how you feel at the end of a day. Jackets, LOSAP, golf outings, even the pay check aren't the reason that any of us get up in the morning and put on a uniform.

[JFLYNN 681]

It's a different world, there are very few volunteer cops....if any.

True, but it IS a select few that are the most vocal about it here. That is the issue - reread my post you quoted.

Agreed...100 percent.

The big deal, if you can call it "big", is that the subject is an obvious attempt by a known anti-volunteer member, to stir the pot. If you can't see that, I hope you are in patrol and not detectives!

As I mentioned - the question HAS some merit. I, and many other members are just not going to walk that road...WHY start yet another pissing match here?

Were you referring to me as anti- volunteer?

I would disagree.

It's ironic that I just noticed this post now as I am just about to head out the door for one of several volunteer activities that I am involved in. I receive no compensation of any kind, i.e. my services don't cost anybody anything. If you can say the same, then kudos to you, you are a true volunteer.

Although I would agree with you that I am a "pot stirrer", at times, I would point out that my attempts to "stir the pot" are made with the best intentions. I am just trying to get at the truth...what is the total cost of fire protection in various communities and what service is being provided? Once we know this, we can have a more educated, objective discussion about maybe making some positive changes.

Qtip

[Guest SQUADco119]

JYFLYNN- do you save the taxpayers money by taking your black impala home that the city of yonkers pays for 20 miles away . Maybe thats a salary and job that could have been saved for one of your fellow bothers who is now getting laid off .

Now im not a pot stirrer or nor am I bashing career, Im just trying to point out the truth

Now lets see if you take your own advice Q-TIP

Also bravo will most likely erase this post like they did to my last one about this. But why isnt this public information.

JYFLYNN and to all who want to get at the truth keep searching cuase when you live in your own little world of ignorance its almost impossible to find anything esp. the truth.

Oh and the next time you want to throw out what you think are facts get them straight. You my friend must have a small amount of friends due to your self centerdness.

[ex-commish 490]

JYFLYNN- do you save the taxpayers money by taking your black impala home that the city of yonkers pays for 20 miles away . Maybe thats a salary and job that could have been saved for one of your fellow bothers who is now getting laid off .

Now im not a pot stirrer or nor am I bashing career, Im just trying to point out the truth

Now lets see if you take your own advice Q-TIP

Also bravo will most likely erase this post like they did to my last one about this. But why isnt this public information.

JYFLYNN and to all who want to get at the truth keep searching cuase when you live in your own little world of ignorance its almost impossible to find anything esp. the truth.

Oh and the next time you want to throw out what you think are facts get them straight. You my friend must have a small amount of friends due to your self centerdness.

Brother, the car comment is a weak argument. I doubt leaving the car in the city will help keep someone from being laid off. If you are going to argue a point which I fully support your right to do so may I suggest you use stronger arguments.

[MJP399 4]

Brother, the car comment is a weak argument. I doubt leaving the car in the city will help keep someone from being laid off. If you are going to argue a point which I fully support your right to do so may I suggest you use stronger arguments.

However, do you think that it might be worded as excess spending? How many chiefs have the perk of a car to go home with, than multiply that by the cost of a car for each or simply just fuel.

Edited January 3, 2009 by MJP399

[Guest SQUADco119]

Brother, the car comment is a weak argument. I doubt leaving the car in the city will help keep someone from being laid off. If you are going to argue a point which I fully support your right to do so may I suggest you use stronger arguments.

It would save money. Gas money and the car payment. Not that he doesnt deserve it or need but he shouldnt make comments on another departments chief car if hes not perpared to have comments thrown his way. Plus I think JYFLYNN is a grown man let him defend himself.

Hhe made comments about my departments chief car in another thread that has been moved and I can find it. Also that is your opinion that I should find stronger issues to argue over. I want to let you know that my post was not to pose as an argument but as the truth and suggestions. If I came off in the way of an arguement Iam deeply sorry brother.

[ex-commish 490]

Plus I think JYFLYNN is a grown man let him defend himself.

I am not defending Jflynn. He is quite capable of defending himself.

[JFLYNN 681]

It would save money. Gas money and the car payment. Not that he doesnt deserve it or need but he shouldnt make comments on another departments chief car if hes not perpared to have comments thrown his way. Plus I think JYFLYNN is a grown man let him defend himself.

Hhe made comments about my departments chief car in another thread that has been moved and I can find it. Also that is your opinion that I should find stronger issues to argue over. I want to let you know that my post was not to pose as an argument but as the truth and suggestions. If I came off in the way of an arguement Iam deeply sorry brother.

I don't recall making comments about your Chiefs car, so why don't you find the thread you speak of ?

I do have a "take home" car, but it's not an Impala, nor black, so I guess you really don't have your facts straight...

My current position requires me to bring my car home, and able to respond to Yonkers for multiple alarms, which happens frequently. Maybe you should suggest to the Mayor that I take a cab in the future.

In my posts, I usually ask questions or make factual statements. Never personal attacks.

Your personal attack seems to indicate that you are trying to deflect attention away from the questions I have asked. I'm not surprised at such a tactic at all.

Qtip

[helicopper 1,050]

However, do you think that it might be worded as excess spending? How many chiefs have the perk of a car to go home with, than multiply that by the cost of a car for each or simply just fuel.

Umm, forgive me for stating the obvious but almost every volunteer FD has vehicles for the use of their chiefs. I don't know what benefit the FD receives when this vehicle is parked at the Chief's full-time job three counties away from the FD - a job from which he can not leave to respond - or at the shopping mall miles from their primary response area but perhaps we should refrain from personally directed slaps at other members and stick to the topic at hand.

It isn't excess spending if the vehicle is budgeted for with the rationale that the "on-call" response of chief's actually saves money by avoiding the necessity to have more chiefs on duty at any given time.

If you'd like to discuss the issue of personally assigned vehicles, I'll be happy to start a new thread on the topic.

"The strength of our society is the ability to debate an issue without fighting with each other". - Anonymous

Any future posts in this thread that are personally directed at another member in violation of EMTBravo rules will be removed.

[Goose 188]

What's the deal with this car thing?

If you are so concerned with fiscal responsibility why does every volunteer department need to have 12 chiefs all with their own SUV, most of which are less than 7 years old? Or what about those million and multi-million dollar engines and trucks that just sit in the houses collecting dust?

Personally speaking, i think volunteer FDs in Westchester are the biggest scam going as far as fiscal responsibility and quality of protection are concerned.

All these government mandated benefits and perks make me sick. It's the biggest freaking scam going. I put my life on the line day in and day out doing quadruple the call volume (and provide a better service, overall) of 99% of these yahoos and knuckle heads and they are getting a pension for showing up a job in shorts and boat shoes or swinging by the firehouse to sign the run sheet. I should get a pension based on the number of jobs i do - all of which are answered in minutes and treated to the highest level of pre-hospital care and transported to the most appropriate facility - all without abuse of mutual aid.

[ladder55 26]

What's the deal with this car thing?

If you are so concerned with fiscal responsibility why does every volunteer department need to have 12 chiefs all with their own SUV, most of which are less than 7 years old? Or what about those million and multi-million dollar engines and trucks that just sit in the houses collecting dust?

Personally speaking, i think volunteer FDs in Westchester are the biggest scam going as far as fiscal responsibility and quality of protection are concerned.

All these government mandated benefits and perks make me sick. It's the biggest freaking scam going. I put my life on the line day in and day out doing quadruple the call volume (and provide a better service, overall) of 99% of these yahoos and knuckle heads and they are getting a pension for showing up a job in shorts and boat shoes or swinging by the firehouse to sign the run sheet. I should get a pension based on the number of jobs i do - all of which are answered in minutes and treated to the highest level of pre-hospital care and transported to the most appropriate facility - all without abuse of mutual aid.

lets here how volunteer fire depts are the biggest scam.

[MJP399 4]

Just out of curiousity, where is the moderation? or do we let some stuff slip and catch other stuff?