The Aerialscope Brand-Don't Be So Quick To Judge

[x635 4,066]

In various threads around this forum, there's been lots of talk regarding apparatus failures.

Personally, I feel that some brands are unfairly dogged on this forum, expecially the Seagrave and Aerialscope brands recently as they relate to Mount Vernon's and Pleasantville's truck being down.

The newest generation Seagrave Aerialscopes that are coming out are amazing. The systems and controls make it the "next generation" Aerialscope. There are numerous muncipalities that use Seagrave Aerialscopes succesfully and without issue, like FDNY, that just tacked on an order for 27 of them. Pelham Manor's Aerialscope, when the refurb is complete, will be the envy of many departments....a single axle MM tower ladder that fits into a small firehouse with weight restrictions, and fits down tight streets- a very basic truck lacking the traditional chrome, but built & spec'd solid to do the job. It will revoluntionize the industry. Bedford Hills FD Ladder 57 has been in service and responded to many incidents throughout Westchester with practically no downtime due to failures. There are numerous other Aerialscopes operating around the country and more on order because of their proven reputation.

Seagrave bought Aerialscope, and they have invested A LOT of time and money into refining the product. It had a lot of system problems, especially the hydraulics and switches, when they aqquired the product line from Baker, but they really turned things around in the years since. If Pierce had bought Aerialscope, then I'm sure that they would be associated with the previous aqquired problems of the brand.

Proper training and maintainence plays a huge role in keeping an apparatus in service.

When people say an apparatus is out of service, let's take Mount Vernon's Aerialscope as an example since it's been getting a lot of attention, it's not always the truck manufacturers fault. It could be anything from operator error due to lack of training causing parts failure, things that have nothing to do with the brand but ends up making the brand look bad. For instances, if you jack an Aerialscope one jack at a time, you can end up severly torque-ing the chasis causing major problems throughout the apparatus.

Also, compare it to one of the many other brands operating in the area- all apparatus have their problems, and sometimes, it has nothing to do with the product itself, rather the people that operate and maintain the product, who are actually causing the problem. Are your apparatus operators thouroughly trained in how to operate and troubleshoot the apparatus? Do they know what problems they should be on the lookout for when doing their checks? Are the people who repair your trucks qualified and trained on the brand? Are they using the correct parts? You wouldn't send a Honda to a Ford dealer to be fixed.....

So, we should really be asking WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE TRUCK- specifically- rather then just generalizing it on a brand. When a ladder fails a ladder test- ask WHY and WHAT failed-often times it's something very minor or has nothing to do with the product as built. When we question how often or how long a truck is down for, question WHY.....was it because the mechanic was waiting on a part or didn't have time to put it in, or didn't know how? Were they waiting on funding? Also, is the rest of the fleet suffering similar issues? How often is other apparatus out of service? Is the problem with the ENGINE or TRANSMISSION.....something that is beyond the manufacturer's control in most cases.

When shopping for trucks, if you hear something negative about a brand, don't be so quick to write them off. If you have concerns, have the dealer come out and bring a demo....and prove your concerns wrong or right.

In a nutshell, don't be so quick to blame the apparatus, the dealer, or the manufacturer.....they could have built the best product out there when it left the factory....but once it's in a customers hands.......

[Bnechis 3,961]

In a nutshell, don't be so quick to blame the apparatus, the dealer, or the manufacturer.....they could have built the best product out there when it left the factory....but once it's in a customers hands.......

Other big issues that no one talks about is:

1) what did you spec? many spec's push the manufacturer to build what should not be built, but they want the sale.

2) Does your spec consider the maintenance issues?

3) Did you properly inspect the rig at final & upon delivery?

4) do you have the will to refuse acceptance if the rig does not meet 100%. Many depts are so thrilled that the new "toy" is here, that they are willing to ignor issues.

[IzzyEng4 427]

When we went for a new engine at my company, the first time I was told who we were looking at I said "WHAT???" I heard the horror stories, rumors, ect. Then I started really looking into the company and wow, was I wrong. Another company the guys wanted well they were always being praised as the best but the department 2 towns over had nothing but problems with them and thankfully after some really hard pressing the MFG the problems were repaired.

Everyone has to remember, what you spec out is what you get. You buy what you pay for. Also to everyone has to remember no matter if its a one-source or commercial truck chassis all fire apparatus are one off custom apparatus. The don't go down an assembly line in Detroit like the Big 3 and everything is the same. I've been lucky witht he apparautts that I have operated, our last truck lasted 25 years with hard service!

I'm nor going to repeat what was said before by Seth and Bnechis because they already hit the main points. No one builds a bad truck, but if the design is bad from the get go, thenyou have a bad truck.

[x635 4,066]

I have to amend something I said:

Baker didn't build a bad product, either. It's just in their end years, their engineering, and particularly their hyrdraulic system construction, got sloppy and quality control went out the window.

[ny10570 745]

No, Baker put out a bad product. I looked into it. There were approximately 24 of Hartsdale/Pleasantville aerials dwlivered and they all died the same death. Actually Pleasantville's and Hartsdale's were among the last 3 or 4 on the road. They all outlived their warranty so I guess in that respect they were fine. But they certainly did not live up to their reputation.

[x635 4,066]

No, Baker put out a bad product.

Structurally, the Aerialscope was a solid product, hence FDNY using them for numerous years. There are numerous other Baker Aerialscopes in service today that have been for numerous years in many cities across the country.

Hydraulically, I can agree with you.