FAST Training

[Tanker 10eng 140]

hey all, just wondering out loud here, of all the departments out there, would any of the teams care to have a multi FAST team drill ??? compare how we all operate, give each other new ideas for training and help one another out.

In Croton, most guys know the WTC smoke house by heart and have been searching for new training sites... ( other counties, etc. )

Ossining had a great drill a couple of years back, wish we could of used the structure more, but the day was good. Yorktown had the dream condition, but our chiefs dropped that ball... So anyone have an interest to cross train ??

[firecapt32 282]

I find it hard to believe that some one can know the WCT smoke house that well.

Mabey you shoud try going to the second floor. or mabey the burn simulator for additional training. Hey how about useing the tower. How many time have you been through the mask confidence??

do you know that there are over 10 different senerios that can be adapted in the mask confidence.

The point I'm trying to make is the WTC is

there for you to use, make the best of it. You dont have to go hunting it's there!!!

[Remember585 815]

I find it hard to believe that some one can know the WCT smoke house  that well.

The point, I think, that is being made is that members begin to lose interest and become too complacent when they train at the same facility on a regular basis. The WCFTC is a decent facility, however to keep the skills of our members sharp, we present them with alternate locations to work with. In 2004, our Engine Company traveled to the Dutchess County Fire Training Center, Orange County Fire Training Center, Middletown Township Training Center, Westchester, the Montrose VA and Camp Smith. Each facility presents different options, building types and layouts. Another reason we use other facilities, is to not give ourselves a false sense of how well or how poorly we do. Theres Departments out there that constantly train at the same place doing the same thing that are giving themselves a false impression - which could be dangerous.

As for the WCFTC Smoke house, we even went as far as removing the floor drain and using it to lower down FF's to make simulated rescues - under the watchful eyes of the CFIs that evening.

Go out and train, and train often. Don't limit yourself to one facility, because you are cheating yourself and your members.

[chris 18]

Just to add to the list of places to train. Croton also has a

weekend at Montour Falls. We go up on a friday and come back

on sunday, having 2 or 3 classes available to us. Its a great weekend for training and fun.

[Guest]

Use the mask confidence trailer, put a firefighter at one end and have your FAST company go in from the other end, secure him, and drag him out through all the obstacles. Unless they have changed the lay out in the past 6 years that should be a challenge. I would add more wires where they would put a rope around your SCBA and make your members cut the wires. You can also entangle the downed firefighter so he must be cut out as well.

I have to agree with the Cap, the training center has plenty to offer, you just got to mix it up.

Stay Safe,

G

[Guest SQUADco119]

i like ff1s idea but as for firecapt32 how can you be sastified with training at the same place all the time like 585 said expand look for different places no structure is the same so why train as if every structure is the same. Believe me we have done so many drills with the smoke house its insane. we like to challenge ourselves as firefighters, we have also used every square inch of that place not saying we wont go back there but new is good different is good. i understand your point though WCFTC buildings are great for training.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

believe it capt32, I have been " playing " in the smoke house for over 20 years... grant it, way back when, being able to burn in it made it a great training tool.

When we use it, most of our guys know .... ok... the hallway goes to the left then a door, then a split, then rooms here and there... and most times we perform our taining in complete darkness...

yes, its a good site, what I have been trying to do is find out what others do there, and to get some new ideas... in most cases its better to train with other depts who operate a bit different then you do...

one recent time, in the burn building we raised the main stairs to the rt. of the main door way... this pissed the guys off, as they knew the stairs where there, and it took them a while to adjust and search for a different means of getting to the second floor.

so, to close, we are still looking for other FAST teams who want to cross train with, we go the first monday night of every month... let us know.

[firecapt32 282]

the idea of a weekend at montour falls is great. think about a weekend at the Westchester training center too. book a sat and sunday for your department, get ahold of the trainingn staff and tell them what you want. Im sure they can satisify your needs.

while training there move things like the stairs ever go in the back door? or through the garage??or stretch up the rear stair case?? i'm sure there are a lot of ideas out there. all i'm saying is its out training center Departments have to use it. spread the word to other department that dont use it. Ask them to come train with you

Train like your life depends on it

[Guest]

Just as there are no two structure fires that are the same, neither should your choice of training locations and scenearios. I know that there are many different scenearios in the WC training center smoke house that can be created, but certain things remain constant. The lack of debris and location of the means of egress.

Another thing I like about going to other locations to train is the ability to see how other areas set up and devise training simulations.

I do agree, however, train and train often. even if is only in your firehouse. It all counts and it all helps.

[Guest SQUADco119]

Firecapt32 were not trying to argue with you or say that your wrong and you are right about there being alot of evolutions you can do with the training center. we just like expanding our training. no matter where we go to train we still always use the training center x amout of times a year i cant how many times we use it for everything car fires extracation burn building smoke house mask confidence and etc we perform all the evolutions you said and then some. There is nothing wrong with a new site for your eyes to train at. wherever you can train we try to go there. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS TOPIC WAS TO GET OTHER DEPARTMENTS ATTENTION BECUASE WE WANT TO TRAIN WITH THEM WITH NOT JUST WITH FAST OPS. LIKE SAID BEFORE ANY OTHER FAST TEAMS OR DEPARTMENTS INTERESTED IN TRAINING WITH CROTON?

[x648eng119 2]

The other thing that's nice about going to other facilities, is some allow live burns. We have gone to 3 or 4 different training centers just for that, and it's 150 times more realistic than the controlled propane fires that the WCFTC has. I'm not trying to degrade westchester at all, but nothing beats a live burn. I know we have been talking about expanding a bit for next time, possibly doing a car fire in the garage scenario.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Nothing beats a live burn?

What is so different about it?

Both have pro's and cons.

Propane props can be relit over and over again.

No ash to clean up.

Forces more nozzle work.

Lacks radiant heat.

Live burns:

Good radiant heat (if you don't go overboard)

You have to clean up the mess.

You have to carry fuel into the building to light including hay. And even more if you can't relight it.

Any training evolution comes down to what you do with it.

Live fire is a supplement not the only focal point of training. Live fire is to give some realistic insight, but it does not good if you worried about making it 2000 degrees but yet the crew still can't pull the line right, it takes forever to hit the hydrant, can't get the ladder out of the truck or stretch the line correctly. But its ok cause its hot in there!

[Guest]

Nothing beats a live burn?

What is so different about it?  

Both have pro's and cons.

Any training evolution comes down to what you do with it.

Live fire is a supplement not the only focal point of training.  Live fire is to give some realistic insight, but it does not good if you worried about making it 2000 degrees but yet the crew still can't pull the line right, it takes forever to hit the hydrant, can't get the ladder out of the truck or stretch the line correctly.  But its ok cause its hot in there!

Your right. The only thing needed to have a meaningful evolution is the right attitude. Everyone here makes some good points about variety, live burns, changing up facilities...But what it all comes down to is attitude. Treat it seriously and hopefully it will keep you out of something serious.

[Guest SQUADco119]

HEY MOHEGAN- LMFD 264 IS YOUR FAST INTERESTED IN TRAINING WITH CROTON FAST WE HAVE IN THE PAST, WE BOTH GO TO FAST RUNS IN SURROUNDING COMMUNTIES AND VERY OFTEN WE END UP ON THE SAME SCENE. IF INTERESTED JUST CONTACT ME OR ANYONE ELSE FROM CROTON AND WELL GO FROM THERE.