Should Apparatus Operators Be Required To Wear Turnout Gear?

[M' Ave 1,466]

while I agree the seating area is getting tighter, I think it really does matter if you get dressed at the scene, think about the perception of, it is a working fire, people trapped, the call comes in that way, and NOW YOU DECIDE TO GET DRESSED IN FRONT OF THE PERSON HANGING OUT OF THE WINDOW. Our dept has a policy if you are out of quarters, get dispatched to anything fire related you are to pull over let the members get dressed, "that whole safety thing about getting dressed in the cab " and then procede to the call.

But to each his own.

Cap, this is certainly a valid point. However, I'd think that the LCC would be busy getting the aerial in place to make the pick or a ground ladder. Is there no one else in gear who can actually get that person while the guy driving is getting the rig ready or grabbing tools? I'm just suggesting that there are plenty of things for the LCC to do, all essential to his position and gear has no bearing.

I think this gets into riding positions and individual dept. SOP's.

This sparks a question........new topic time......

[IzzyEng4 427]

while I agree the seating area is getting tighter, I think it really does matter if you get dressed at the scene, think about the perception of, it is a working fire, people trapped, the call comes in that way, and NOW YOU DECIDE TO GET DRESSED IN FRONT OF THE PERSON HANGING OUT OF THE WINDOW. Our dept has a policy if you are out of quarters, get dispatched to anything fire related you are to pull over let the members get dressed, "that whole safety thing about getting dressed in the cab " and then procede to the call.

But to each his own.

But if you are the MPO / ECC / Driver, what is your main objective especially being the first and second rig in? Establishing a water supply and a secondary water supply. So in that respect it doesn't matter if the driver is "suited up" or not, in my opinion. I somewhat agree with what you are saying though as it pertains to a manpower issue mostly and so be it, if that is the SOG then you have to abide by it. But a good number of the departments in my area have the the luxury of running with 4 people on a rig and the driver stays with the turck (1st & 2nd due).

In the department I work for, we don't have that luxury granted we have a small response area. While I do wear my bunkers while driving, the engine I drive (a Ferrara Inferno) the brake and gas pedals are so close to the steering knuckle that a lot of the time my boot catches it or hits both pedals at the same time. As for steering the rig with my coat on, I don't feel safe driving my crew on a run and having my motion restricted if I have to take evasive actions due to another motorist not paying attention while they drive.

I rather take the extra couple of seconds to put my gear on scene. And besides the person hanging out of the window is going to be seeing you turning on and putting on your SCBA, cinching it up, putting on your mask, pulling your hood over, puting on you helmet (again), putting your gloves on, clicking in you regulator before going in, ect. ect. ect. Regardless, its going to look like an eternity for them. You really can't argue that for a driver in my opinion.

Robert please don't take this as a hit or flame toward you, I'm just trying to make a different view point as this is really a good discussion.

[Guest]

Obviously the driver should have their gear with them and should have SCBA available to them on the rig, but whether or not they wear it while driving should be left up to individual departments, based on what works in their apparatus and how their SOPs run. Wearing it while on a scene? I'd say its dependent upon the SOPs again. But, like rbuchjr said before his post was deleted, are we going to make the Chief, the PD, the news, and the bystanders all wear turnout gear and SCBA because the wind might send some smoke their way? Unlikely. Either way, good topic for discussion

Yeah but the chief and pd and news and bystanders can walk away from where they are pump operators are stuck not saying they have to have SCBA's on but not a bad idea to have one ready

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Of course, thats what I stated. Gear and SCBA should be immediately available if not on.

[FFPCogs 863]

I can't believe this is even an issue. Pants always. No coat while driving, it can be or does hinder movement. Helmet while driving? you can't be serious. On scene depends on the duties required and conditions plain and simple. If your part of 2 in 2 out well DUH c'mon. If not why do I need to, I'm not leaving the pump panel or turntable. SCBA, well here again if you need it put it on, if not why in Gods name do I have to stand around with it on my back.

Is the fire service becoming so full of firefighters with no experience that we have to be told when and where to put on PPE? You cannot regulate for every eventuality if you intend to do aggressive interior operations, there MUST be the flexibility, common sense and experience (even if only through training if your not busy) of the firefighters to make judgement calls. I have always said that I am all for safety, and I do take it very seriously, but the surest way to make a fire scene safe is to put the fire out! All these regulations combined can hamper an aggressive approach to that end. If we become so concerned about what we're wearing while we're doing the job, we're not actually doing it.

Ok time to get a good bashing,

I have always felt and still do that firefighting is an inherently dangerous undertaking, firefighters are going to get boo boos, it's the nature of the beast. No amount of SOPs or regualtions is going to prevent that if proative and aggressive firefighting operations are how you handle the job. If members need to be told when or where to "gear up" or go on air or any number of other basic fireground evolutions than their training has failed them. If we teach our people HOW to do the job, WHY we do it the way we do, and WHEN to take action and we won't need to regulate them.

Bash away

Take care

and as always

Stay Safe (but aggressive... )

Cogs

Edited December 11, 2008 by FFPCogs

[ajsbear 11]

At this point I know I'm an MPO and with my bad back not much else. I wear my pants and boots while driving. When I get to the scene I put on my coat and get the rig set up, c*** the wheels set up for4 pump whatever. Same if I'm driving the rescue. I have everything with me if I have to go to work and as soon as we are on the scene I put the rest on. Todays rigs are not as roomy as the older ones. At 6'4" and 250 there isn't a lot of room for me to wear my full PPE minus helmut. Bobby if that's the rule in NR and it works for you fine. But up here the drive to an alarm is longer, some of the roads are tighter than the driveways you deal with and longer. Our SOP's say it's up to whoever is driving.