12 firefighters hurt as 2 trucks collide in Greenwich Village

[M' Ave 1,466]

does anyone know what FDNY procedures are for afa does everyone go in hot?

We don't respond to anything without warning devices activated, if that's what you mean by "hot", although I don't care for that term. If they send us, it's an emergency.

Those in my battalion have had two good examples of why NOT to get complacent about an activated alarm this month. A 10-75 and a 2nd alarm that came in as class 3 alarms (activated alarms)

As Chief Flynn stated, the streets are very tight in that area, you don't get a look down a cross street until you are practically in the intersection. Accidents happen, lets not crucify the poor guy driving. I assure you that the ECC and LCC are extremely well trained, but once in a while the planets align and accidents happen. Look, there is an alarm somewhere in the 5 boroughs just about every 45 seconds, I'd say the accident ratio is pretty low.

Edited November 25, 2008 by M' Ave

[ladder55 26]

From what i understand in todays paper neither the ladder or the squad was responding from thier firehouse. They were both responding from a prior run and it was an unusual traffic pattern for these companies which contributed to the accident.

[FFPCogs 863]

First off I hope all are doing OK.

As for the accident itself, well it was an ACCIDENT and these types of incidents are called accidents for a reason. I'm sure neither Chauffer intentionally set out to cause injury or a collision, so I don't necessariliy believe in sanctions. A little retraining maybe, but no punishment.

What bothers me more than most accidents is the culture that looks to place blame when something happens rather than correct any shortcomings that may have led to them. I am not condoning unsafe practices by any means, but most firefighters are as safe as they can be, and punishments rarely, if ever have the desired results overall.

As firefighters whether paid or volunteer we have chosen to enter into what is an inherently dangerous field. As much as I or any one here may never want to go to another hospital room to visit a colleague, or God forbid, to have offer solace to a grieving family of one of our own at a funeral, these things will happen. It is the nature of the beast we have chosen to fight. To me far to much emphasis is put into placing blame, as if these FFs didn't already have enough guilt or anger to deal with over an accident. Should we investigate, review and make the necessary corrections to place as much of a barrier as is possible between our FFs and accidents, YES. After that, well generally from there we should move forward with lessons learned. Why? Because rarely will placing blame on our own do anything constructive within our service, other than in cases of outright negligence.

Sorry to go off topic

Take care

and as always

Stay Safe

Cogs

[IzzyEng4 427]

M'Ave, having driven around the city a bunch of times, I'm gald you guys drive with the lights onto a run especially how some of those pov drivers are down there!

I hope everyone recovers quickly and they get back to work soon.

[TSull 33]

M'Ave, having driven around the city a bunch of times, I'm gald you guys drive with the lights onto a run especially how some of those pov drivers are down there!

I hope everyone recovers quickly and they get back to work soon.

As it has been explained to me, Sd-18 and L-12 were assigned to a previous box. As companies were released, the AFA was transmitted with Sd-18 first due engine and L-12 second due truck. The first due truck pulled over to allow Sd-18 to go ahead since they were first due engine. L-12 probably saw the ladder truck pull over and maybe thought they were letting L-12 go through the intersection. With that, Sd-18 enters the intersection and BAM!!!! The streets are extremely tight down there. It was an accident and we are lucky no one was killed.

But people should back off calling for demotions and terminations if they have never been in that situation before. And this is coming from a guy who T-boned a Nissan Altima at 56th and 10th after the Nissan ran a red light after a night of partying on the Westside. Getting on the radio to tell the dispatcher that we had been involved in an accident and would be extricating 3 people was one of the lowest points of my career but it was an accident.

[PVFD233 68]

Anyone know the current status of those injured?

[helicopper 1,050]

That number holds true in suburban and rural environments. Not in in cities. For life threatening emergencies EMS averages just 6.5 minutes and segment 9, cold response is over 10 minutes.

I'm going to have to see if I can find the studies but wasn't one of them done in Houston? That certainly qualifies as a city.

I'm sure the response times you describe are accurate but more important they're appropriate. The "sick" and the "EDP" aren't going to suffer by waiting 10 minutes for their ride to the hospital.

[Guest Loud412]

Is Houston a city? Yes. Is it anything like the West village section of Manhattan? Not even close. Manhattan below central park is like its own little world. There is so much traffic that it can take greater than 10 minuts with lights and sirens to go just 5 blocks. None of the response studies that have been done even come close to applying to middtown and lower Manhattan. Its just too congested. NYC response policy for EMS response when responding to an alarm, is that unless the job is categorized as an EDP, Injury Minor, or Sick Minor, you respond to the scene with lights and sirens. Then once you transport to the hospital, unles the patient is classified as unstable or criticle on the CUPS scale, you drive without lights and sirens to the hospital. The reason for that is pretty simple. Anything can be said by the person placing the call with ems. I cant even count the number of time that I have been sent to what was supposed to be a non-criticle injury, and it ended up being a stabbing or other major trauma. Getting to the scene as quickly as possible in my opinion is of the utmost importance. Responding in non emergency mode because statistics show that some percentage of the time these calls are bogus or unfounded is irresponsible on the part of the agenc responding to the incedent. I would love for anyone who doubts this opinion, to explain to somebody's loved one that because their call got classified as something we dont respond with haste to, that their loved one who just seemed sick to them, is actualy having a heart atack or stroke, and now because you were responding in non emergency mode, their loved on is now outside of their window of oportuninty for recovery without permanent deficits.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Loud412

[ny10570 745]

Responding in non emergency mode because statistics show that some percentage of the time these calls are bogus or unfounded is irresponsible on the part of the agenc responding to the incedent. I would love for anyone who doubts this opinion, to explain to somebody's loved one that because their call got classified as something we dont respond with haste to, that their loved one who just seemed sick to them, is actualy having a heart atack or stroke, and now because you were responding in non emergency mode, their loved on is now outside of their window of oportuninty for recovery without permanent deficits.

Rather than respond to everything lights and siren the dept could create more CRO positions and perform a decent interview of each caller. 30 extra seconds could go a long way towards getting the right units to the right jobs with the right level of urgency. The reality is that much of the time there are more calls than CROs. When that happens they are typed out based upon what PD has entered on to the screen. No interview beyond "What is your emergency?"

Edited December 9, 2008 by ny10570