12 firefighters hurt as 2 trucks collide in Greenwich Village

[PVFD233 68]

12 firefighters hurt as 2 trucks collide in Greenwich Village

The Associated Press • November 22, 2008

NEW YORK — The Fire Department said two of its trucks have collided in Manhattan’s Greenwich Village, sending a dozen firefighters to hospitals. Five are in serious, but stable condition, while seven have minor injuries.

It’s not clear what caused the accident around 6:30 p.m. tonight at Seventh Avenue and West Tenth Street. Both trucks were responding to an alarm at a building in the area.

One truck was heading south on Seventh Avenue. The other was going east on West 10th Street.

No other vehicles were involved in the wreck.

PoJo News

[Guest]

hope all the injuried get well soon!!

[FFD941 20]

Seatbelts Seatbelts Seatbelts!

Hope all involved have a speedy recovery.

[JBE 328]

Sq-18 and TL-12. Looks like 12 hit the Squad and they both hit a cab before the Squad came to rest on the curb. They were heading to an activated fire alarm on Grove Street.

[RWC130 594]

I wish all the BROTHERS a speedy recovery!

God Bless

BE SAFE!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

NY Post Pictures:

http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/new...uck/photo08.htm

Apparently, the most injured firefighter was the first female firefighter to join the rescue squad

[markmets415 524]

Information from the secretlist @ firefighterclosecalls.com and Billy G

Two FDNY companies responding on a run crashed this evening, injuring the members on board. Initial reports are that 5 were seriously hurt (but stable and NLT) and that seven others have minor injuries.

The crash happened around 1830 hours in Greenwich Village at the intersection of 7th Avenue and W. 10th Street between Squad 18 and Tower Ladder 12.

ABC NY

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6520626

Edited November 23, 2008 by markmets415

[x635 4,066]

Wow, that is some significant damage that Chris Sadowoski from the NY Post photographed (at the link above). Thoughts and prayers are with the FDNY and their families during this difficult weekend...

[jack10562 414]

I heard the lamp post prevented the Squad from crashing into the store on the corner, there were dozens of people shopping who could have been killed.

[JBE 328]

Yeah that and the cab. Lt. Walsh was a FF in R-4, covered in R-5 as a boss and got the spot in Sq-18 a few weeks ago.

[Guest]

Thats good there r no life threating injuries from this

Hope they have a fast recovery

[LCFD968 10]

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AGAIN???????? I wish EVERYBODY a speedy recovery. I hope those that are responsible are held accountable for there actions in this completely AVOIDABLE incident...

Enough is enough!!!

Edited November 23, 2008 by LCFD968

[TSull 33]

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AGAIN???????? I wish EVERYBODY a speedy recovery. I hope those that are responsible are held accountable for there actions in this completely AVOIDABLE incident...

Enough is enough!!!

And how do you suggest "those that are responsible are held accountable for there (spell check) actions..." be held accountable?

[Just a guy 493]

get well soon guys !!!!

[RPM3311 3]

And how do you suggest "those that are responsible are held accountable for there (spell check) actions..." be held accountable?

Don't you think knowing that you injured your brothers, and sister in an MVA is enough punishment? Its not like they went out on the run with the intent to hurt them.

[Goose 188]

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AGAIN???????? I wish EVERYBODY a speedy recovery. I hope those that are responsible are held accountable for there actions in this completely AVOIDABLE incident...

Enough is enough!!!

It had been an absolutely horrid 24 hours for the FDNY and this is what you have to say? Save the quarterbacking for another day.

Thoughts and prayers to all involved. God bless the FDNY.

Edited November 24, 2008 by xfirefighter484x

[INIT915 1,119]

-

Edited November 24, 2008 by INIT915

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I was in that pat of the city today. There was the FDNY family van and a small shrine was in front of the house. I also walked by the intersection where it happened. Other than a little bit of debris, I could not tell that anything had happened.

[LCFD968 10]

THERE are 12 members of the FDNY that had to go to the hospital because someone made a horrible choice. Someone wasn't doing THEIR job and that was to arrive at the scene safely and because of that action and/or actions 12 families were disrupted. 12 phone calls were made that changed lives possibly forever.

It has nothing to do with playing monday morning quarterback, two apparatus, responding to the same alarm crashed and that should not happen. That is the fact.

TSull, I don't know how it should be handled, retraining, suspension or if it was the drivers fault revoke their driving previlage. I don't have the answer but something should happen that stops this from happening again. This avoidable incident not only caused heartache and turmoil with the families of ALL involved but it also cost the FDNY two apparatus and countless manpower issues.

If I offended anyone I do apologize that was not my attempt here. There is a serious problem throughout our nation when we have over a hundred LODD per year and thousands of apparatus accidents were most of them are avoidable. It should be unacceptable...

[Guest]

does anyone know what FDNY procedures are for afa does everyone go in hot?

[NWFDMedic 58]

And how do you suggest "those that are responsible are held accountable for there (spell check) actions..." be held accountable?

I'm sure it's not going to be a popular viewpoint but whomever is found to be at fault should pay with their job or at the very least suspension and chauffeur training (for the driver) and a demotion for the officer.

[efd184 59]

does anyone know what FDNY procedures are for afa does everyone go in hot?

What do you mean does everyone go in hot? What do you think? Its and AFA and that could mean there's a fire correct? There are times were the alarms do work! Every call should be handled expecting the worse! That's my personal feeling.

Domenick

Edited November 24, 2008 by efd184

[ex-commish 490]

It had been an absolutely horrid 24 hours for the FDNY and this is what you have to say? Save the quarterbacking for another day.

I agree. The ink on the investigative report probably isn't dry yet.

[ny10570 745]

I am more than happy to critique jobs, accidents, and any other incident that we can learn from but this garbage is ridiculous. So far the only valid question was about FDNY's response policy to AFA's. While a few depts have switch to a first due only hot or all cold response for AFAs, FDNY like most depts has maintained their policy of lights and siren for all alarms.

Manhattan echoes like crazy. If you have another rig behind you its exponentially worse. Vehicle 1 stops and clears the intersection. Vehicle 2 has the light and proceeds through thinking the stopped cars are part of the usual manhattan traffic. I don't know if this is what happened, its just not always as cut and dry as one guy screwed up so lets punish him.

[JFLYNN 681]

THERE are 12 members of the FDNY that had to go to the hospital because someone made a horrible choice. Someone wasn't doing THEIR job and that was to arrive at the scene safely and because of that action and/or actions 12 families were disrupted. 12 phone calls were made that changed lives possibly forever.

It has nothing to do with playing monday morning quarterback, two apparatus, responding to the same alarm crashed and that should not happen. That is the fact.

TSull, I don't know how it should be handled, retraining, suspension or if it was the drivers fault revoke their driving previlage. I don't have the answer but something should happen that stops this from happening again. This avoidable incident not only caused heartache and turmoil with the families of ALL involved but it also cost the FDNY two apparatus and countless manpower issues.

If I offended anyone I do apologize that was not my attempt here. There is a serious problem throughout our nation when we have over a hundred LODD per year and thousands of apparatus accidents were most of them are avoidable. It should be unacceptable...

I understand the good intention of your comments but they are inappropriate. You do not have enough facts to make a judgement in this case. What is reported in the media and what pictures seem to show are often incorrect. How do you know that one apparatus didn't swerve to avoid a pedestrian or a vehicle? Maybe one of the drivers suffered a seizure or other medical problem. Perhaps there was a mechanical failure....or, maybe a mistake was made...IF a mistake was made, it was just that...we are all human, and at this time, so soon after this tragic accident when most likely the drivers and Officers involved are feeling horribly about this, the last thing they need from their "brothers" is criticism. They need their "brothers" support. "Brothers" ,haha what an incredibly overused word in the fire service...

P.S. Have you ever been in the Village? Those streets are probably a little bit more narrow, congested and confusing than what you're used to, Brother.

[Guest fdnyladder10]

does anyone know what FDNY procedures are for afa does everyone go in hot?

Its not for us on this forum, or for anyone on any other forum to start judging those brothers who are on the frontline doing the job, there is a system, a department and people, who are trained, subject to legislation and the law who will decide if there is someone to blame and if so who and why, as far as we are concerened, brothers please all get well soon, god bless their families and close ones, and their brother firefighters who have to go out on the next run, whatever it may be.

Not more any of us can say.

Jarrod

[helicopper 1,050]

What do you mean does everyone go in hot? What do you think? Its and AFA and that could mean there's a fire correct? There are times were the alarms do work! Every call should be handled expecting the worse! That's my personal feeling.

Domenick

With that logic every ambulance call would be treated as a cardiac arrest and every police call treated as a crime in progress. We don't send fire and EMS to every automobile accident because there might be an injury, do we? It is simple - we have to do a risk analysis on EVERY call and determine what the appropriate response is. We don't need to run "hot' to everything just because it might be something.

There's a lot of research out there that demonstrates how unnecessary and potentially dangerous it is to run hot to everything. That's why we have things like EMD, tiered responses, response codes, etc.

In fact, the reality is that response times are not that much different (at least for EMS) responding without lights and sirens vs. responding with them.

[Guest fire42rescue]

thats crazy i seen the 2 trucks that same day but i hope everyone recovers and get back to work to do wat they do best best wishes to those 2 companys

[ny10570 745]

In fact, the reality is that response times are not that much different (at least for EMS) responding without lights and sirens vs. responding with them.

That number holds true in suburban and rural environments. Not in in cities. For life threatening emergencies EMS averages just 6.5 minutes and segment 9, cold response is over 10 minutes.

Edited November 24, 2008 by ny10570

[210 91]

I'm sure it's not going to be a popular viewpoint but whomever is found to be at fault should pay with their job or at the very least suspension and chauffeur training (for the driver) and a demotion for the officer.

Pay with their job? A bit harsh I think. Like an earlier poster stated, there are dozens of scenarios that could have caused this accident. We are all human and unfortunately these things happen. All we can do is learn and move on.

Edited November 24, 2008 by 210