Town of Fishkill/City of Beacon EMS

[Danger 160]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pb...D=2008811180314

Anyone know what this article means? Are they planning on shutting down BVAC?

[celticmedic643 2]

It sounds like City of Beacon thinks they are going to get free EMS coverage. I had heard a rumor that Hudson Valley Paramedic Service went to The City of Beacon and offered free EMS, both ALS and BLS. On the condition that they could bill the patients. This in theory woud put BVAC out of bussiness since they bill and rely on the billing monies for day to day operations. Good Luck to BVAC!

[Guest EFFP411]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pb...D=2008811180314

Anyone know what this article means? Are they planning on shutting down BVAC?

It seems to me to be more along the lines of re-negotiating and renewing/revising an agreement. I highly doubt they will close BVAC, since they already have Compensated staff on daytime. What does interest me however, is if they will expand BVAC's response territory to include the entire town of fishkill, and if the town is going to keep NDP/ALAMO after the merger is complete. This concerns me because I live in the town of Fishkill, and currently I worry that in the event something happens to my mother, if ALAMO will have a unit to care for her. It seems to be an increasing happening that they rely on other agencies to cover their calls. City of Beacon already cut the alamo flycar out of the budget as of December 1st I believe. I wonder if BVAC will pick it up or they will rely on the one ambulance that Alamo still has left in the town...

And, I really hope that if they even consider HVP's offer, that they take a good hard look at the past performance of the company, both in coverage and common practices. There is a reason they don't have any more 911 contracts under their belts...

Edited November 18, 2008 by EFFP411

[celticmedic643 2]

"With the intermunicipal agreement, Gold said, the high volume of calls would assure the provider enough income, resulting in no charge to the city."

Interesting in the fact that BVAC bills for thier services, so the ALS provider is unable to bill since BVAC is the transporting agency. So I dont see how the high call volume would assure the provider enough income. The only way the mayors plan works is if BVAC is gone.

Edited November 18, 2008 by celticmedic643

[Guest EFFP411]

"With the intermunicipal agreement, Gold said, the high volume of calls would assure the provider enough income, resulting in no charge to the city."

Interesting in the fact that BVAC bills for thier services, so the ALS provider is unable to bill since BVAC is the transporting agency. So I dont see how the high call volume would assure the provider enough income. The only way the mayors plan works is if BVAC is gone.

Then maybe it's time for them to look at the possibility of hiring more people, changing to Beacon EMS, and looking into the option of getting a few medics like some other agencies have done....

[Goose 188]

Not for nothing but when I was working up north and pulled a tour in fishkill we did the best we could given the gross abuse of the mutual aid system by beacon. This not to say Alamo is without blame, but the fact remains that if beacon stepped up to the plate on a more regular basis fishkill units would not be stripped as often as it is. Looking at the even bigger picture is the abuse of the mutual aid system across the Hudson valley - many municipalities are relying more and more on surrounding units to do a a disturbingly high percentage of their jobs.

[fdny2817 6]

Not for nothing but when I was working up north and pulled a tour in fishkill we did the best we could given the gross abuse of the mutual aid system by beacon. This not to say Alamo is without blame, but the fact remains that if beacon stepped up to the plate on a more regular basis fishkill units would not be stripped as often as it is. Looking at the even bigger picture is the abuse of the mutual aid system across the Hudson valley - many municipalities are relying more and more on surrounding units to do a a disturbingly high percentage of their jobs.

It sounds like the time has come " Can we say County Wide EMS "

[Goose 188]

amen brother. I don't work up north anymore but have good friends that do and know how hard they work despite the chips being stacked against them. It's time to cut the bull and advocate for real change. But, I'm not holding my breat.

[fdny2817 6]

amen brother. I don't work up north anymore but have good friends that do and know how hard they work despite the chips being stacked against them. It's time to cut the bull and advocate for real change. But, I'm not holding my breat.

What a concept the county 911 center tracks all the ALS units and sends the closest one "WOW" And because they are tracking, they know what part of the county they need to back fill or move up units "WOW"

What frigging great concept OOPs I just woke up

Edited November 19, 2008 by fdny2817

[Guest EFFP411]

What a concept the county 911 center tracks all the ALS units and sends the closest one "WOW" And because they are tracking, they know what part of the county they need to back fill or move up units "WOW"

What frigging great concept OOPs I just woke up

Well, you weren't too far off brother. County does track the ALS units, each time one responds, they ask where they are responding from. If it's too far away, they will call the Agency and see if they have a closer unit to send, or ask the incident officer if they want a closer unit. They also, make sure the contracted towns know when their ALS provider drops a call, by toning out the next ALS provider, along with that FD's tones so they hear what is going on... And if you call out responding and don't tell them from where, you will get a nice, attitude filled, "WHERE ARE YOU RESPONDING FROM?!". And you better not get caught lying about it either....

So the intention is there, it just needs a little help i suppose

[NWFDMedic 58]

It sounds like City of Beacon thinks they are going to get free EMS coverage. I had heard a rumor that Hudson Valley Paramedic Service went to The City of Beacon and offered free EMS, both ALS and BLS. On the condition that they could bill the patients. This in theory woud put BVAC out of bussiness since they bill and rely on the billing monies for day to day operations. Good Luck to BVAC!

I guess there are a whole bunch of options out there and we'll just have to wait and see. I don't necessarily think this means the end of BVAC; I would imagine they could enter into an agreement to pay an ALS provider from their billing receipts and still meet the terms of the contract. There would definitely be some changes in store for BVAC though because they could not responsibly provide service for the far end of the Town of Fishkill (Rob's house) from their headquarters on Fishkill Avenue. They would also have to ensure response to a higher percentage of their calls (I find the 90% number quoted in the article very hard to believe) and better response times. All of this would lead to increased costs which would probably have to lead to increased bills and possibly a change in their practice of billing recovery.

Whatever the result, and of course I have a biased interest as I work for one of the providers that would at least theoretically be interested in providing service, I hope the City and Town make a decision that provides the best patient care to all of their residents. They hopefully will not look only at a dollar figure, but the services promised and the track record of the agency (volunteer or private service) submitting the proposal. There have been agencies in the past that have undercut others to get contracts only to provide a substandard service and eventually back out altogether.

[Guest EFFP411]

All i know is right now, I am not thinking like someone who works in commercial EMS, I am thinking as a town resident, and for the safety of my family. Whatever they decide to do, I hope their sole basis and consideration is not based on $$$$$ amounts, but on the quality of service they provide! I understand that money is tight, but i also know that EMS has been, and still is expected to be gotten for a bargain. This should not be the case, because it puts lives in danger

Edited November 19, 2008 by EFFP411

[tdc202 0]

The way I read it s Beacon wants to do away with the Medic and use one from whoever has the Fishkill contract. It also says that the BVAC would not leave the city. I agree something needs to be done on a county wide system. I too live in the Town and honestly if I need a medic I don't care which patch is on that person's shoulder but I care about getting help in a timely manner. Just my .02 cents

[NWFDMedic 58]

The way I read it s Beacon wants to do away with the Medic and use one from whoever has the Fishkill contract. It also says that the BVAC would not leave the city. I agree something needs to be done on a county wide system. I too live in the Town and honestly if I need a medic I don't care which patch is on that person's shoulder but I care about getting help in a timely manner. Just my .02 cents

Amen to that chief. We all have our own competive banter in the station but when it comes down to patient care we should all be working together. When the call drops, it's not my sandbox or my competitor's sandbox, it's the patient's sandbox and we should be doing everything we can for them. Fortunately, the vast majority of experiences I've had with street level providers in the Town of Fishkill has been exactly that, a spirit of cooperation for the good of the patients. Leave the competition off the scene.

[Guest jbgfd314]

Well, you weren't too far off brother. County does track the ALS units, each time one responds, they ask where they are responding from. If it's too far away, they will call the Agency and see if they have a closer unit to send, or ask the incident officer if they want a closer unit. They also, make sure the contracted towns know when their ALS provider drops a call, by toning out the next ALS provider, along with that FD's tones so they hear what is going on... And if you call out responding and don't tell them from where, you will get a nice, attitude filled, "WHERE ARE YOU RESPONDING FROM?!". And you better not get caught lying about it either....

So the intention is there, it just needs a little help i suppose

The only problem with the question of "Where are you responding from?" is that the answer is not always a truthful one. I have been on scenes where a als or bls unit says there responding from the fishkill area yet it takes them 20 minutes to arrive on scene. Seems more like a response from the Poughkeepsie area.

[Guest jbgfd314]

The way I read it s Beacon wants to do away with the Medic and use one from whoever has the Fishkill contract. It also says that the BVAC would not leave the city. I agree something needs to be done on a county wide system. I too live in the Town and honestly if I need a medic I don't care which patch is on that person's shoulder but I care about getting help in a timely manner. Just my .02 cents

Thats funny because when an als unit was needed in Fishkill and the nearest als unit was a fly car sitting at bvac the Beacon City Administrator sayed were not paying for that als unit to leave the city. If it was contaracted to be used for city residents it must stay in the city. Funny how peoples views change when it helps them and their budgetary agendas.

[SIGNMAN 4]

It sounds like the time has come " Can we say County Wide EMS "

YES !! Time is now. How much longer do we have to wait!!! Should of done this years ago !!!

[Guest EFFP411]

The only problem with the question of "Where are you responding from?" is that the answer is not always a truthful one. I have been on scenes where a als or bls unit says there responding from the fishkill area yet it takes them 20 minutes to arrive on scene. Seems more like a response from the Poughkeepsie area.

I know, just like hearing NDP going 3rd dispatch to a cardiac arrest in Beekman, only to find out they were racing from Rhinebeck to get there, and tried to get as close as they could before they call out....

[PVFD233 68]

I know, just like hearing NDP going 3rd dispatch to a cardiac arrest in Beekman, only to find out they were racing from Rhinebeck to get there, and tried to get as close as they could before they call out....

You seem to like to bash Alamo and or NDP alot. Just know that the uniform you wear is no where near perfect, you may like to think so but its not.

[NWFDMedic 58]

The only problem with the question of "Where are you responding from?" is that the answer is not always a truthful one. I have been on scenes where a als or bls unit says there responding from the fishkill area yet it takes them 20 minutes to arrive on scene. Seems more like a response from the Poughkeepsie area.

That's true and as a chief that would be something for you to address with your town or your provider. Some services think it's ok to tell there crews to lie about where they are responding from or creatively not giving information (like calling out as a medic when you don't have a medic). There is no service out there that will be perfect in every situation but at least I can say that I've never been told to lie to the county dispatch center.

[Goose 188]

You seem to like to bash Alamo and or NDP alot. Just know that the uniform you wear is no where near perfect, you may like to think so but its not.

Funny isn't it? I can't tell you how many times his company of choice responded from new hamburg into east fishkill on priority jobs.

This bullshit is probably the only thing i miss about working in Dutchess and it's this bullshit that continues to hold EMS back. Thanks "brother."

What a joke.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Funny isn't it? I can't tell you how many times his company of choice responded from new hamburg into east fishkill on priority jobs.

This bullshit is probably the only thing i miss about working in Dutchess and it's this bullshit that continues to hold EMS back. Thanks "brother."

What a joke.

That's why I generally don't mention any particular service. Nobody is perfect and no matter what the system, there will always be the event of one more call than unit.

But, I've got to defend our company just a bit. We don't have a station in New Hamburg, so it would be VERY rare for us to send a unit from NH to East Fishkill. Wappingers yes, but more often than not, those calls are in the Hillside Lake area or the Brown Road area where the closest unit is actually the Wappingers unit. Has it happened where the units have come from further? Of course. Nobody is perfect, systems get busy, and sometimes the waste product has hit the rotating device.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into an argument between agencies. The lives of residents of a City and Town depend on the decisions made by their lawmakers. If we as providers can't keep the content at least close to the subject at hand, there would never be any productive discussion. You never know, someone here might actually have a good idea and the people that live in the city or town that read EMTBravo might bring it to the people in charge.

[Goose 188]

Dude, your preaching to the choir as far as SPFC and I are concerned. We know the deal. Obviously your brother in arms needs a bit of a reality check.

[tdc202 0]

Thats funny because when an als unit was needed in Fishkill and the nearest als unit was a fly car sitting at bvac the Beacon City Administrator sayed were not paying for that als unit to leave the city. If it was contaracted to be used for city residents it must stay in the city. Funny how peoples views change when it helps them and their budgetary agendas.

It was suppposedly written into the contract that it not leave the City but then it goes south of the city into the Town of Fishkill . I'm not sayng that it's bad being for the most part the losest ALS unit (Putnam Medic 1 ) might be a little closer in parts of that area.

[Goose 188]

Thats funny because when an als unit was needed in Fishkill and the nearest als unit was a fly car sitting at bvac the Beacon City Administrator sayed were not paying for that als unit to leave the city. If it was contaracted to be used for city residents it must stay in the city. Funny how peoples views change when it helps them and their budgetary agendas.

It was suppposedly written into the contract that it not leave the City but then it goes south of the city into the Town of Fishkill . I'm not sayng that it's bad being for the most part the losest ALS unit (Putnam Medic 1 ) might be a little closer in parts of that area.

Unless you're talking snow valley campground or in that area, Medic 1 has a bit of a ways to travel. So, i would say BVAC's medic is the closest in the majority of the town of fishkill.

Interesting about the city admin, but if BVAC (or the City, i dont know how it works in Beacon) has mutual aid agreements or is part of the county mutual aid plan (same thing, just overseen by the county) wouldn't they HAVE to send their medic unit? Correct me if i'm wrong, but i dont think you can deny mutual aid....

[RNMedic08 0]

Ok there is no perfect EMS service although there many who think they walk on water......I work for Alamo and I always give the exact location I am responding from the best way not to get caught with your pants down is to be honest,let me tell you as a street medic it is very frustrating when I have to go mutual aid to Beacon for a P-4 and then to hear a P-1 or P-2 drop and our backfill unit isn't close enough and we have to roll a call to another agency...that pisses me off but it's best for the patient.

Everyone is bashing Alamo but recently I have heard alot of East Fishkil calls requesting their ALS provider and they roll calls because they don't have a unit or they are racing across the bridge.....I also heard some crazy nonsense this past Saturday night with Hudson Valley Paramedics. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it wrong to have the word Paramedic on your rig when you are a BLS unit, Alamo took that off their units because not all crews are ALS units but in fact BLS......we call out Alamo Medic # XYZ or Alamo ambulance # XYZ so that county knows what is responding..... Providing BLS crews on calls like " possible stroke" and blsing this in to SFH hospital to find out the BS was 24.. and that is directly from staff at SFH....later in the morning they requested an ALS intercept for chest pain at Greenhaven, they gave there location as 216 and Beekman Road...now you tell me how that is possible when they run parallel, the medic unit responding to the intercept is now really pissed because they know that can't be and the unit is not answering county. why because not all their units have dutchess county frequencies I'm told...when everything is straightened out the truth is they haven't left the facility.....I thought intercept meant the requesting unit was heading towards the help??????????

I went into EMS to help, no matter what patch I wear. I continue with the same goal and I think for the good of the residents of Dutchess county a better solution needs to be found because not any 1 provider can meet evryone's needs.......but again that is just my 2 cents.......

[NWFDMedic 58]

Unless you're talking snow valley campground or in that area, Medic 1 has a bit of a ways to travel. So, i would say BVAC's medic is the closest in the majority of the town of fishkill.

Interesting about the city admin, but if BVAC (or the City, i dont know how it works in Beacon) has mutual aid agreements or is part of the county mutual aid plan (same thing, just overseen by the county) wouldn't they HAVE to send their medic unit? Correct me if i'm wrong, but i dont think you can deny mutual aid....

I'm pretty sure he was specifically referring to the Dutchess Junction area. I'm pretty sure the Beacon flycar was allowed to go there because of the extremely low call volume and because it made sense. Also, City of Beacon does a lot of mutual aid down there, so I would imagine that they like working with the medic they know.

The City contracts for the medic unit, not BVAC. That medic unit, as far as I know, would be part of the mutual aid plan and I've heard it requested via specific request into the Glenham Fire District. Also, assuming that Dutchess' mutual aid plan is written similar to Orange's, you can deny mutual aid if the request would leave your district without adequate coverage. I'm sure there are plenty here who know Dutchess mutual aid better than I do.

[tdc202 0]

NWFD Your right I was referring to the Junction and more being the area near Dutchees manor and areas south of there. Like I said I was told it was written into the contract that the City signed. I just don't get why if they are allowed to go that way then why not into Glenham>?

[jfmuller 23]

Just to clarify some of this:

Rombout coverage is from Alamo

Glenham coverage is from Beacon Volunteer Ambulance Corp. (BVAC)

Dutchess Junction coverage is from BVAC

Chelsea coverage is BVAC? (Fishkill area) and Town of Wappinger (TOW -Transcare - Wappinger area) (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Village of Fishkill coverage is from Mobile Life

Those in the Rombout Fire District are also in the "Ambulance Dist #l" and pay for the contract with Alamo. Those covered by BVAC do not pay any tax for a contract, instead they get billed if they use the service. Those in Chelsea that are covered by TOW pay tax to cover that contract. Beacon covers their ALS contract with a line item in the budget that is raised through taxes.

So when they state that "Both Beacon and Fishkill now pay to have coverage by Alamo EMS. " they are only talking about those in "Ambulance Dist #1", and Beacon, NOT Glenham, Dutchess Junction and Chelsea (All of which are in the Town of Fishkill)

[Beekman 5]

Outside the City of Beacon, Alamo is the ALS provider and responds with BVAC. At Castle Point (T/Fishkill inside the Chelsea Fire District), you will get the BVAC BLS bus and an Alamo ALS bus.