Details of Mount Vernon firefighters' criminal pasts elusive

[20y2 43]

As per the Journal News, its been confirmed as a Michael Holt.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081108/NEWS...345/1018/NEWS02

MOUNT VERNON - A city firefighter in training was suspended from the county fire academy this week following a report that he was involved in a verbal dispute at the facility.

Edited November 8, 2008 by jack10562
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[191SH 4]

As per the Journal News, its been confirmed as a Michael Holt.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081108/NEWS...345/1018/NEWS02

MOUNT VERNON - A city firefighter in training was suspended from the county fire academy this week following a report that he was involved in a verbal dispute at the facility.

to be continued............................. coming nov 2008 " the probie - the final chapter"

[abaduck 123]

As per the Journal News, its been confirmed as a Michael Holt.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081108/NEWS...345/1018/NEWS02

<snip>

When Holt and the other firefighters were hired, Lighty and other city officials said a criminal record did not bar someone from being hired as a fire fighter. Still, he said the results of background checks were not received until a day after the new firefighters were sworn in, and the records could have affected the outcome of the hirings.

Firefighters were concerned that some of the charges included felony convictions and that one of the new trainees had reportedly been arrested 14 times. The Journal News submitted Freedom of Information requests to Mount Vernon and the Westchester County District Attorney's Office for details of the firefighters' criminal histories in early October. This week, the county denied the request. The city still has not responded.

When the firefighters were hired, city officials said they would follow a zero-tolerance policy for all trainees, meaning questionable behavior, actions or arrests would lead to their termination.

Now I'm a relative newcomer to these shores. And I'm certainly not steeped in the great traditions of the American fire service the way many of you guys are. So can someone help me understand what the heck is going on in Mount Vernon? Either he was open about his criminal record before being hired, in which case those doing the hiring need their heads examined (IMHO), or he lied about his record and was only found out when the background checks came back, in which case he should *obviously* be terminated instantly, and be going to jail for the lies.

At least that's how it would be handled in the UK - 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception' would be the charge; lying on your application is fraud. The fact that the commish made a point of saying the background checks were not received until after he was hired suggests to me that this was the first they heard about the convictions. So what's this? Some kind of 'don't ask, don't tell' policy?

[BFD1054 1,552]

I wasnt going to reply, as all of you have already stated valid points. Im glad to see such replies and comments being made by not only the career members on here, but the vollys as well. It seems we all feel the same way.

What pisses me off is that i would give my left nut to get on the job and i have no criminal record, not even a traffic ticket! One of these chuckleheads had 14 prior arrests and this other probie gets into a confrontation in the academy, like seriously? So much for through backround investigations, huh?

Then again, this is the same City that passed over an over quilified, veteran FF for the posistion of Lt., not to mention all the other BS that MV pulls.

[x635 4,066]

From today's Journal News:

Details of Mount Vernon firefighters' criminal pasts elusive

By Hannan Adely • The Journal News • November 16, 2008

MOUNT VERNON - One of the city's newly hired firefighters spent time in state prison for selling cocaine while another was busted for having stolen weapons.

The two men are among a crop of eight recruits hired by the city in September, despite the fact that six of them had records of criminal arrests.

The controversy flared again two weeks ago after one of the rookies, Holt, was suspended from the Westchester County Fire Training Academy after he reportedly got into a verbal dispute with a trainee from White Plains.

FULL STORY: http://www.lohud.com/article/20081116/NEWS02/811160361

[191SH 4]

From today's Journal News:

FULL STORY: http://www.lohud.com/article/20081116/NEWS02/811160361

simply amazing

[Guest]

just wonder how many others have made it through the cracks ? Hurts all the people that do their job so well and those that want to do it

Edited November 16, 2008 by JHK3605

[JM15 386]

Drug dealing and weapons poss. Not someone I would trust with my life.

[RWC130 594]

Faces may change at City Hall but corruption in the City of Mount Vernon

is business as usual!

[exmrvfc 0]

The Latest from LoHud.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081126/NEWS02/811260373

[DR104 141]

The City Of Mount Vernon will do nothing about this,if they were they would have done it already.They are just waiting for it to blow over!!!!! If they do, you know whats going to happen next!!!!!! Some s@#thead attorney will jump in and sue the city!!!! I know in some jobs if you get a speeding tix they skip you!!!! I know some MVFFs and it sucks for them that people see this in the news and the paper and for all the guys that keep themself out of trouble so they can get on the job!!!!I know not everybody is a saint, but it was not like it was just one arrest!!!!! And for that 2nd chance that was used up after the 2nd 3rd and 4th arrest!!!!!!!!!!

[191SH 4]

WOW! it gets better by the day, if i did any of that i wouldn't even get hired at mcdonalds.

Edited November 26, 2008 by jack10562

[x134 46]

Now after reading the article my question is why they (the probies) would even be under consideration for employment?

I am all for second chances. But some of these crimes are serious. Not even to mention the prision sentence.

Makes you think why they even ask if you have any traffic tickets or if you have been convicted of a felony on the application.... It clearly does not matter.

Edited November 26, 2008 by x134

[helicopper 1,050]

I would actually have given someone (anyone - not just the probie MV FF's in this story) the benefit of the doubt if it was an arrest or two for non-violent offenses that could be attributed to "youthful indiscretion" but when you've got a pattern of criminal conduct including violent offenses such as possession of a (stolen) firearm, resisting arrest, etc. you start to lose me. If it was an arrest for DWI or even drugs while a teen or young adult, that could be forgiven. Even those already on the job occassionally make this kind of mistake. But it is just that: a mistake.

These records hardly represent the kind of person that I would want coming into my home to help me.

[Scottyk107 9]

Arrested for repairing a car in the street? anyone one know what that's about?

[191SH 4]

Arrested for repairing a car in the street? anyone one know what that's about?

only guessing, but i will bet there was some kind of action towards the police , if not sounds like a waste of time arresting him for that. can we get an officer to weigh in on it

[jack10562 414]

Arrested for repairing a car in the street? anyone one know what that's about?

YO, there were four flats, he had the car up on blocks, he was only taking the tires to get fixed..... yeah, that's it.....

[Bnechis 3,961]

only guessing, but i will bet there was some kind of action towards the police , if not sounds like a waste of time arresting him for that. can we get an officer to weigh in on it

"Holt, who was recently suspended from the fire academy after a verbal dispute, was arrested in Mount Vernon in 1996 on charges of repairing a vehicle in the street. County court records received earlier by the newspaper show arrests for Holt in the late 1980s on charges including drug possession, weapon possession and harassment."

Many communities have local codes prohibiting repairing a vehicle in the street. It prevents someone from "setting up" a repair "garage" on public streets or on private property that is not zoned for it. Chances are when the PD went to talk with him, he was unwilling to "accept" the ticket.

[abaduck 123]

"Holt, who was recently suspended from the fire academy after a verbal dispute, was arrested in Mount Vernon in 1996 on charges of repairing a vehicle in the street. County court records received earlier by the newspaper show arrests for Holt in the late 1980s on charges including drug possession, weapon possession and harassment."

Many communities have local codes prohibiting repairing a vehicle in the street. It prevents someone from "setting up" a repair "garage" on public streets or on private property that is not zoned for it. Chances are when the PD went to talk with him, he was unwilling to "accept" the ticket.

Well the law should be able to distinguish between an individual legitimately fixing his or her own car, and a back-street garage business, surely? If you don't have a garage you don't have many choices about where you fix your car! So long as it's not stood there for weeks and months as a dangerous wreck on blocks there shouldn't be a problem. I've had to fix cars on the street in my time.

Not in the least defending the serious issues with the other criminal records being reported, but I have to say that one stood out as a wierd thing to get in trouble over when I read it too; it sounded like an 'invented' charge.

Mike

[INIT915 1,119]

Well the law should be able to distinguish between an individual legitimately fixing his or her own car, and a back-street garage business, surely? If you don't have a garage you don't have many choices about where you fix your car! So long as it's not stood there for weeks and months as a dangerous wreck on blocks there shouldn't be a problem. I've had to fix cars on the street in my time.

Not in the least defending the serious issues with the other criminal records being reported, but I have to say that one stood out as a wierd thing to get in trouble over when I read it too; it sounded like an 'invented' charge.

Mike

Like most cities, MV has City Ordinances. They have one regarding repairs in the streets.

[Raz 14]

First off, I'm not defending any of these probies with criminal pasts. They should've never been hired. Period.

However, I do find it to be a double standard that the moderators came down with an edict stating "no discussion of problems or arrests involving firefighters who were off duty." I believe it was enforced after a firefighter was charged with arson, it may have also come down after another was charged with rape. The thread was quickly shut down, posts erased, etc. Yet here we are, on yet another thread discussing criminal issues and it's left to go on because it "relates to the job." It's a pretty blatant double standard, what's good for one side should be good for the other. I'm just saying, personally I feel it should all be fair game for discussion.

[CAM502 6]

First off, I'm not defending any of these probies with criminal pasts. They should've never been hired. Period.

However, I do find it to be a double standard that the moderators came down with an edict stating "no discussion of problems or arrests involving firefighters who were off duty." I believe it was enforced after a firefighter was charged with arson, it may have also come down after another was charged with rape. The thread was quickly shut down, posts erased, etc. Yet here we are, on yet another thread discussing criminal issues and it's left to go on because it "relates to the job." It's a pretty blatant double standard, what's good for one side should be good for the other. I'm just saying, personally I feel it should all be fair game for discussion.

No Raz you got it all wrong bro...it's not that it relates to the job it is that it relates to Mount Vernon...come on what else would people have to talk about :angry:

[EMTbravo 312]

First off, I'm not defending any of these probies with criminal pasts. They should've never been hired. Period.

However, I do find it to be a double standard that the moderators came down with an edict stating "no discussion of problems or arrests involving firefighters who were off duty." I believe it was enforced after a firefighter was charged with arson, it may have also come down after another was charged with rape. The thread was quickly shut down, posts erased, etc. Yet here we are, on yet another thread discussing criminal issues and it's left to go on because it "relates to the job." It's a pretty blatant double standard, what's good for one side should be good for the other. I'm just saying, personally I feel it should all be fair game for discussion.

Thanks for your input, however, some of your facts and claims about previous moderation are incorrect. I understand why it's easy to throw judgement, so let me have a chance to explain.

The moderators of this forum use their discretion, and often talk about threads such as this one in our workgroup and we have staff members from other EMTBravo sites evaluate our actions and ask them for their unbiased input. I feel that this issue relates to the hiring and standards of a department, in addition to the history possibly relating to an incident at the fire academy. These members were also tried in a court of law and convicted. It was also published in a widely read newspaper.

The rule you are referring to regards issues that are COMPLETLY unrelated to issues that are discussed on this forum. For example, we don't need to discuss a firefighter who had a minor feud with his neighbor over a noisy leafblower, etc. Also, we don't need to talk about the guy who was a volunteer firefighter for three months five years ago who had kiddie porn on his computer. At the time this rule was put into place, these threads were becoming frequent and often threw judgement to people who's claims hadn't been substantiated or hadn't been convicted. Also, their usually wasn't a point to these threads and there was most often no productive discussion.

In addition, there are also many "behind the scenes" things that go on with the moderation of this forum day-to-day that members don't see or understand, such as when members request that threads that they started be deleted. Nor do they know or understand the history of this forum and why certain policies are developed.

If you have an issue or questions about a thread or moderation of this forum, please contact one of the staff members. We ask that, in the future, you don't "hijack" discussions about moderation issues. We do appreciate input,

-Seth G.

[hudson144 150]

"so much for zero tolerance"! lol

[Geppetto 31]

Mt. Vernon reinstates firefighter recruit

By Hannan Adely

The Journal News

December 3, 2008

MOUNT VERNON - A probationary firefighter who was suspended from the county's fire academy a month ago has his job back, but will not return to the county training program. ...

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081203/NEWS02/812030370

[ajsbear 11]

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081203/NEWS02/812030370

It's who you are related to not what you know or how you do your job.

[Billy 68]

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081203/NEWS02/812030370

This might need a whole new thread, but does Mt Vernon or any other Department have the proper facilities or credentials to train there own personnel? Isn't that what the County Training Center exists for?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

This might need a whole new thread, but does Mt Vernon or any other Department have the proper facilities or credentials to train there own personnel? Isn't that what the County Training Center exists for?

Yes they do have the people with the credentials, the facilities are out there in numerous areas if they can schedule them. All municipal departments in NY State have to have to administer the annual 100 hour training requirement for professional firefighters. Most do this through utilizing a Municipal Training Officer who has to hold NY Instructor II certification. Most MTO's I know of attend instructor conferences and are certified to teach the state courses that are delivered by State and County Instructors at the Fire Training center. In fact most do with the assistance of Municipal Fire Instructors withing their departments. So as long as they have personnel certified to teach the courses needed and they can follow/comply with the state curriculum it can happen. The county training facility offers much of the needed facilities for departments to be able to effectively train as well as delivering state and county courses to all Firefighters. Many municipal departments who do conduct state courses in house through their MTO/MFI's also schedule use of the props much like departments doing drills.

[firecapt32 282]

heres a good question--why dosent My Vernon save money and take the other recruits out of the class too?? that way that are all equal.

Right now that individual is rideing a rig while the other Vernon recruits are breaking their A$$es at the academy. How do you think theses other guys feel-knowing that if they foul up :

1-they wont lose their job

2-they will get suspended with pay

3-when things die down a little you get to go back to company and get special training.

4-no lose of time

just makes you wonder

In fact if you can train them in service and not in a academy---why have one??

there has to be so me of you Academy graduates out there how do you feel about this.??

[ladder55 26]

I believe the arrest records provided by lohud were only arrests made in the city of MV. Who knows what else they have been arrested for in other communities