Details of Mount Vernon firefighters' criminal pasts elusive

[ajsbear 11]

Are any of you aware that a Mt Vernon probie was ejected out of the academy for threatening the life of a White Plains probie this past week?

From what I heard (from an excellant source) the incident took place this past week on the 30th and he was ejected from the academy this week on Monday.

Word has it that some of the fire department officials are going to try to save his job because he is connected/related to someone.

I guess the newspapers missed this with all the coverage of the election. I thought the new commissioner said ZERO TOLERANCE?

[exmrvfc 0]

Would this be the same guy who was arrested 14 times???

[ajsbear 11]

Would this be the same guy who was arrested 14 times???

I don't know the specifics of his arrest record but I do know he has a criminal record.

[jack10562 414]

If the allegation is true, then after being summarily fired, he should be brought up on 2nd or 3rd degree menacing charges, or as appropriate depending on the nature of the threat.

[x635 4,066]

I have heard from reliable sources that a Mount Vernon firefighter who did have a criminal record (unspecified) was thrown out of the academy in a dispute with a White Plains probie. I don't have further details, but we're lucky this happened in the academy and not in a firehouse.

And the drama that is Mount Vernon FD continues.....how long has ED been out of office now?

[99subi 121]

cant say i didnt see this coming

[x635 4,066]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get the correct information out, since the rumors are going around with some wild versions (OUTSIDE this forum).

I've recieved additional intelligence that they will keep him and select officers will train him. Also, he is to ride out on Engine 6, even without any qualifications. This directive was as per Chief Everett as far as I understand.

If the above stands to be correct (after posting on this forum), if he can't get along with other FF's in the Academy, what about in the firehouse? I thought you had to graduate the academy according to civil service and NYS OFPC laws/rules?

[jloftus 28]

I think I'm gonna puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jack10562 414]

..."Timmy" doesn't play well with others...

(no offense TR54)

Why would anyone in their infinite wisdom want to coddle to a known menace? On probation, no less?

It's fairly obvious by now, that we have jurisdictions that will do whatever they damn well please, irrespective of whether it's right, wrong, indifferent, or even legal.

Where does it end? or doesn't it?

[hudson144 150]

REMEMBER THIS:

Lighty also said reports that one of the new firefighters has been arrested 14 times were "about right." But he stressed that no one would be put in harm's way because of these hirings and that the new hires would be subject to a zero-tolerance policy in their first year, which is considered a probationary period.

City officials said the Fire Department had several people in its ranks with a prior criminal record.

[weaselff 6]

Shocker!

I had a friend who worked down in "DCFEMS" and that dept has many similar issues.

[JM15 386]

REMEMBER THIS:

Lighty also said reports that one of the new firefighters has been arrested 14 times were "about right." But he stressed that no one would be put in harm's way because of these hirings and that the new hires would be subject to a zero-tolerance policy in their first year, which is considered a probationary period.

City officials said the Fire Department had several people in its ranks with a prior criminal record.

Wouldn't getting kicked out of Probie school violate that zero- tolerance policy? Especially for what he is accused of?

[sr71 1]

Wouldn't getting kicked out of Probie school violate that zero- tolerance policy? Especially for what he is accused of?

It would make sense If the person involved was terminated by the city, But in today's world anything is possible.

[jack10562 414]

Here was the original article in LoHud:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081008/NEWS02/810080356

...no one would be put in harm's way because of these hirings and that the new hires would be subject to a zero-tolerance policy in their first year, which is considered a probationary period.

Exactly how much negative behavior is allowed under Zero tolerance?

Let's review: The academy was in it's fourth week out of sixteen weeks, and one probie candidate gets the boot (pun intended) expelled under potentially criminal actions towards another probie, and now they want to train him in-house to give him another chance?

Excuse me, Mr. Commissioner, with all due respect, doesn't threatening someone (on or off the job) sound like HARM to you?

Class B Misdemeanors are okay under "zero-tolerance"?

How about a felony? That okay, too?

Or is Zero-tolerance reserved for those who criticize or disagree with you?

[NYMedic37 22]

It sounds to me like this probie has some serious anger management & integrity issues. In the interest of public safety, is there any standard of conduct that could have him removed from public service? Should there be corrupt politicians protecting this probie, maybe they should be removed from office as well. After all, this probie will be in a position of public trust. Will he be stealing from a homeowner's house during a fire? Will he rescue a victim during a critical incident or will he be looking to protect his own a$$? Should one of his fellow firefighters need assistance will he be there to help or will he let someone die because he doesn't get along with his fellow firefighters? Who could look into this matter? The D.A.'s office? The U.S. Attorney's office? Does the firefighter's union have anything to say about this? I know that the firefighter's union exists to protect the firefighters but if this probie is a bad apple....wouldn't the union better protect the real, dedicated firefighters from this probie?

[191SH 4]

It sounds to me like this probie has some serious anger management & integrity issues. In the interest of public safety, is there any standard of conduct that could have him removed from public service? Should there be corrupt politicians protecting this probie, maybe they should be removed from office as well. After all, this probie will be in a position of public trust. Will he be stealing from a homeowner's house during a fire? Will he rescue a victim during a critical incident or will he be looking to protect his own a$$? Should one of his fellow firefighters need assistance will he be there to help or will he let someone die because he doesn't get along with his fellow firefighters? Who could look into this matter? The D.A.'s office? The U.S. Attorney's office? Does the firefighter's union have anything to say about this? I know that the firefighter's union exists to protect the firefighters but if this probie is a bad apple....wouldn't the union better protect the real, dedicated firefighters from this probie?

what amazes me is that a volunteer is required 96 hours of firefighter 1 to be interior qualified, bare minimum i know, and we do not get paid for being there. i have spent a total of 300 hours or so between all of the classes i have taken and every instructor has been top noch and every instructor in every class i have taken at westchester stresses the word team work, brother and sister hood and even though i am a volly i am better for those classes and i learn more every time i take one, my point is being a volly in a quiet area how is this firefighter with less hours of training than most vollys going to handle the job in mt vernon.

we have instructors for a reason to show us what is required of us and to undermine that is wrong and dangerous on the part of mt vernon.

Edited November 6, 2008 by JTACIJ

[LaurBecca7 1]

It sounds to me like this probie has some serious anger management & integrity issues. In the interest of public safety, is there any standard of conduct that could have him removed from public service? Should there be corrupt politicians protecting this probie, maybe they should be removed from office as well. After all, this probie will be in a position of public trust. Will he be stealing from a homeowner's house during a fire? Will he rescue a victim during a critical incident or will he be looking to protect his own a$$? Should one of his fellow firefighters need assistance will he be there to help or will he let someone die because he doesn't get along with his fellow firefighters? Who could look into this matter? The D.A.'s office? The U.S. Attorney's office? Does the firefighter's union have anything to say about this? I know that the firefighter's union exists to protect the firefighters but if this probie is a bad apple....wouldn't the union better protect the real, dedicated firefighters from this probie?

Its about time in this country that we stand up and say enough. Too many people, because of who they are or who they know, get away with alot. In my opinion, and in this great country everyone is entitled to have one, if you have a criminal record or if you have an attitude or anger problem, you don't belong on the job. The job, across the country, has enough of issues to deal with. Why add problems to fuel the fire.

[JFLYNN 681]

Its about time in this country that we stand up and say enough. Too many people, because of who they are or who they know, get away with alot. In my opinion, and in this great country everyone is entitled to have one, if you have a criminal record or if you have an attitude or anger problem, you don't belong on the job. The job, across the country, has enough of issues to deal with. Why add problems to fuel the fire.

You guys are right. Why don't you get a petition together or something and notify all the media outlets of your concerns? Writing about it on here is only preaching to the choir.

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

What can be done about a situation like this? We see it all the time throughout society and we all talk about how bad it is but what if anything can honestly be done about it.

[medic929 0]

What can be done about a situation like this? We see it all the time throughout society and we all talk about how bad it is but what if anything can honestly be done about it.

I agree someone should call NBC TV or anothe news outlet

[RWC130 594]

I believe under Civil Service laws / requirements a Career Firefighter or Police Officer

has One Year to complete an Academy. They can do OTJ Training until such time.

If they are going to keep him on the FDMV then he will need to be in the next Academy.

City officials said the Fire Department had several people in its ranks with a prior criminal record.

Hudson144 I knew those really good Chili Dogs were stolen! LOL

[Oswegowind 17]

Sounds like another great opportunity for a criminal to get access to someone else's home. I am glad I don't live in Mt. Vernon...what is to stop him from committing crimes while on duty such as burglary if he has a history of being a criminal? Look what just happened in NY City with the cop Abaje-Diaz! They overlooked things and then what happened. Sorry, but if you are convicted of real crimes, not violations, maybe civil service isn't for you.

[LT410 5]

What is the real story here does anyone know the facts on what happened or is everyone going on hear say? Also does he have to attend the next academy or can he be trained and certified in house?

[Guest DFD189]

What is the real story here does anyone know the facts on what happened or is everyone going on hear say? Also does he have to attend the next academy or can he be trained and certified in house?

At last....someone who asks for the facts before shooting off....I'd advise everyone to take a deep breath and await the facts, not rumors of facts, before heading down a path which does Mount Vernon, the Westchester Academy, or the firefighter in question any good. Once the facts are established, then fire away, but until then, this post isn't doing anyone any good.

[robert benz 344]

What is the real story here does anyone know the facts on what happened or is everyone going on hear say? Also does he have to attend the next academy or can he be trained and certified in house?

he can be trained inhouse so long as the training meets all the objectives of the 229 hours that the state says is the minimum standard. You are required to send your training agenda to the state prior to training for approval. Example The instructors teaching a class have to be certified by OFPC to teach that class in order for the student to get credit for it. The other part that has to be done is CPAT. That cant be done inhouse, so he will have to get in on someones test (I dont think the career academy will let him back for that day) and I believe it is a max time of 18 months from time of appointment to pass the test, but that is up to each dept.

[LT410 5]

What liability will it be on a line officer if he rides out with the engine company at this time?

he can be trained inhouse so long as the training meets all the objectives of the 229 hours that the state says is the minimum standard. You are required to send your training agenda to the state prior to training for approval. Example The instructors teaching a class have to be certified by OFPC to teach that class in order for the student to get credit for it. The other part that has to be done is CPAT. That cant be done inhouse, so he will have to get in on someones test (I dont think the career academy will let him back for that day) and I believe it is a max time of 18 months from time of appointment to pass the test, but that is up to each dept.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

It's amazing what a "hook" can do for someone. Just think of the next guy on the list who would probably do justice to the job and he has to wait or was probably passed over for this guy. Wonder what hi REAL test score was, probably got some help getting into this class to egine with.

[jack10562 414]

According to a Ch 12 News report on TV this evening, the now suspended (WITH PAY) Mt Vernon probie has family ties to Chief Everett, and a brother who is "on the job".

No criminal charges have been filed (as of the time of the broadcast)

Nothing on LoHud...no surprise. "The rug" is ready ....for sweeping yet another questionable action under...

[edit] LoHud. com has an article now:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20081108/NEWS...345/1018/NEWS02

Edited November 8, 2008 by jack10562

[Guest]

This is such a blatant disrespect for the members of every branch of the fire service. I am so glad I do not work in that environment. Having taken a class at Montour Falls with 2 guys from MVFD I can say that the fact they only exchanged minimal pleasantries was not a surprise. As a first hand observer of this segregation when in New Orleans its really sickening that others get to wear the same uniform as you.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The Minimum Standards for Firefighting Personnel in the State of New York fall under the statutory authority of Executive Law, Section 159-d. And are published under Chapter 12, OFPC Part 426.

The copy of the above that I currently have was revised 4/00 so I'm not sure if anything has changed, but Capt. Benz was on the spot with his info. The standard gives 18 months to meet the requirements for departments with personnel who are scheduled to an on duty avg. of more then 20 hours per week. 10 to 20 you get 24 months. Less then 10 hours, 36 months. personnel. I also remember reading something about the amount of full time personnel affecting this, and I don't know if it was in an updated publication issued by OFPC on the topic.