Poughkeepsie opinion - Let volunteers help put out city fires

[Guest]

There are actually more than that.

Richmond and Oceanic(SI, and the only ones we dispatch)

West Hamilton Beach, Broad Channel, Roxbury, Point Breeze, Rockaway Point(Queens)

Gerritsen Beach(Brooklyn)

Edgewater Park (Bronx)

I didn't include Aviation, because I am not sure they are still existing, nor do I count this so called Bronx Fire Patrol 4, because I'm not quite sure they are even legit.

i was told one in queens and 2 in bronx

[Guest DFD189]

The only way this could ever work is for the city to establish a volunteer 'reserve' house, with its own engine/ladder, which would be toned out on multi-alarms to backfill the city.

However, unless there was an extraordinary response time, I can't see how such a reserve capacity would be faster than the current mutual aid.

There is also the issue of comptibility of resources. Unless the city were to allow for operational 'joint tours' where the volunteer/reservists rode out and operated with the career personnel, as well as trained with them, the operational incompatibility would become a huge liability.

Also, what would stop the city from using such ride-alongs as a stop-gap means of justifying the current short crew status, as well as an excuse not to fund the current manpower roster?

Poughkeepsie is a career department, and does a great job. The solution isn't to complicate the situation by adding a volunteer component, but rather for the city to provide the adequate funding needed to keep manpower levels up to what they need to be.

Volunteer departments are a reality, and provide a great service to the communities that have them. However, the prime reason communities turn to career departments is that increased call volume combined with low volunteer levels made it impractical to stay the course with an all-volunteer system.

As for Poughkeepsie's history with volunteers, I think the turning point came when more volunteers stayed behind to socialize in the volly bar than would turn out for a call. There are some histories of significant fires where volunteers chose not to respond because of ongoing animosity with the career side. It sounds to me like the old Poughkeepsie volunteers made the decision themselves. This isn't to knock those who want to volunteer today. But if they really think they can put together the 80-100 member base needed to staff and manage a 2 engine/1 ladder volly house in Poughkeepsie, then why not do it? Get the community to support it, and make it happen. Somehow I think the community will stick with what they have....

[Doc 11]

i was told one in queens and 2 in bronx

JBE is right. I've visited most of them (including Aviation before they fell apart again).

Back to the topic...

A lot of smaller cities and bigger villages farther upstate have been dealing with this issue for a while. The Village of Endicott has lost 2/3 of it's tax base between IBM and Endicott Johnson pulling up shop, and the resulting flight of the young and able. The result is a population that is increasingly unemployed, unemployable, and poor or elderly. The demand for services is staying consistent, but the budget simply can't keep up as those left don't / can't pay. Calls for forming a volunteer department since ~1999 have gone from half-joking to nearly serious, going as far as village board meetings. The strategy seems to have been to look to state and federal aid for any and all other departments and then divert as much tax revenue into emergency services as needed to stay afloat. This only works so long as the state and feds are offering money at all.

One thing EFD has done with the situation is to join up with the county's cross-staffed engine program http://www.endicottfire.com/engine98.html

These upstate cities/villages are ahead of their time. The problems they're facing are our future problems unless the economy makes a drastic upswing.

[fdny2817 6]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention that, The city still has a volunteer.

[Bnechis 3,961]

However, the prime reason communities turn to career departments is that increased call volume combined with low volunteer levels made it impractical to stay the course with an all-volunteer system.

I'm not so sure that that is the primary reason.

FDNY became career to stop the street fighting between companies.

My dept started hiring people to maintain the stations and hourses over 110 years ago, we went 100% paid in 1927 when there were still 100's of active members and the dept was handling almost 200 calls per year. The reason we switched to a career dept was the chamber of commerce determined that the improved service would cost less, because of the drop in insurance costs.

Most of the combo depts started because the FD wanted career personnel to maintain and drive apparatus. The call volume has little to do with the drop off, because that occured long before the big volume increase came. Many other factors account for the drop off.

[50-65 205]

How does mutual aid work for PFD? City of Newburgh recalls firefighters for second alarms AND starts calling mutual aid from vollies for stand-by either in quarters or at Fire Headquarters (Grand Street station). Vollies more often than not end up working at 2nd alarms or covering additional calls in the city.

Also, someone mentioned ISO requiring an initial response of 12 FF. NFD, at one time, I believe, responded with driver, officer, and one firefighter. Lately, I believe, I have seen 2 FFs on apparatus.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

While I certainly respect everyones opinion and I respect the gentleman's wish to possibly be a volunteer firefighter in his community, I have to wonder how many other community services he volunteers his time in if he is so interested. I'm quite sure Poughkeepsie has a number of other volunteer organizations that service needs just as critical and important as fire response that he could fill his time with. Teach people to read, help the elderly, assist with after school programs, mentor a child, there are plenty of other things to do.

The second thing is and not often mention is the fact that it will cost the city to supplement their career staff with volunteers. The amount of money at start up alone would cover the 4 positions mentioned and probably even above that. Turnout gear costs money, physicals cost money, then will come the initial investment into LOSAP that costs money. So its not just as simple as it would seem. I'm also willing to think that in the first year or so turnout might be strong but as with everything else the novalty will wear off and the need for additional staffiing will arise yet again. Its just sad that the fire service consistantly has to take cuts despite being the one agency often running at bare minimum staffing as it is and in many areas below what is really needed. I know in many municipalities the fire service often takes up only 25% and even lower the total budgets spend on public safety, but yet are cut back even more from that.

[x134 46]

How does mutual aid work for PFD? City of Newburgh recalls firefighters for second alarms AND starts calling mutual aid from vollies for stand-by either in quarters or at Fire Headquarters (Grand Street station). Vollies more often than not end up working at 2nd alarms or covering additional calls in the city.

Also, someone mentioned ISO requiring an initial response of 12 FF. NFD, at one time, I believe, responded with driver, officer, and one firefighter. Lately, I believe, I have seen 2 FFs on apparatus.

When Poughkeepsie gets a working fire and the signal 10-75 is transmitted ,Fairview comes mutual aid with the F.A.S.T. team. When a 2nd alarm is transmitted off duty personnel can come back to work,and other mutual aid equipment is sent ,some Career, some Volunteer to the scene or to cover city stations. Ex: Highland, Arlington ,Roosevelt ,Hyde Park.

Edited November 19, 2008 by x134

[rvwscan 20]

While we are on the topic; anyone have any idea what year the last of the volunteers in Poughkeepsie were phased out/disbanded?

That year hasn't come yet.

While the majority of the volunteers and the volunteer companies dissappeared in the late 70's - early 80's there is still one volunteer left in the city. PFD Car 5. You can see him zipping around in his blue chevy blazer with the little red lights on the roof and dash and the bug catcher on the hood that says "PFD CAR 5".

No idea what his title is or exactly what he does but he's there.

Edited November 20, 2008 by rvwscan

[x129K 1,393]

PFD Car 5 is the Logistics Officer

[Guest jbgfd314]

while i have no objections to people volunteering in their local respective departments if that is indeed availabe as an option, i do also understand the need to go to a neiboring department if that is the only option to be a volunteer, and as everyone involved in the fire service in and around dutchess county knows that the volunteer departments are a huge part of what makes up the fire service in the county. after reading this article however this seems like nothing more than someone who just wants to be a "big city fireman". this is not meant to dis respect anyone, but if you need to go to arlington, fairview, roosevelt etc to volunteer than do so and accept it, be grateful you can get the training knowledge and experience they are willing to gove you. if this guy wants in the city that bad, TAKE the TEST and get on the job. just my 2 cents

I agree brother!! To many volunteer departments work like their a paid house in the Bronx, You train the best you can, protect your members and the community to the best of your ability and if you want to live the dream and collect a check.... take the test!! If you want to go do city firefighting in the local cities join a department near a city because when most areas can't handle a fire with 2 engines and a ladder they will call.

[x134 46]

That year hasn't come yet.

While the majority of the volunteers and the volunteer companies dissappeared in the late 70's - early 80's there is still one volunteer left in the city. PFD Car 5. You can see him zipping around in his blue chevy blazer with the little red lights on the roof and dash and the bug catcher on the hood that says "PFD CAR 5".

No idea what his title is or exactly what he does but he's there.

I can remember in the late 80s early 90s seeing three Volunteers with red metro helmets on a line spraying water at a fire on South Cherry street just in on the right from Main Street. Why did this article hit the papper? Does this individual have a personal agenda?

Edited November 24, 2008 by x134

[x129K 1,393]

It's NOT an article, it is a "opinion", which is a "letter to the editor", but with a picture....

And yes.

[x134 46]

Sorry letter to the editor. I miss typed.

[x129K 1,393]

Sorry letter to the editor. I miss typed.

Nahhh......don't sweat it...if you ask me, it did exactly what the author wanted it to; it looked more official than it really is.

[AFS1970 504]

So if PFD already calls in the neighboring towns when they get a multiple alarm, and in all likelyhood that is the mainrole a volunteer company would serve in the city, that begs the question. Why not stay where you are, provide first due service to a neighboring town that really needs it, come in on the multiple alarms just like you would in the new agency, and be proud of both services you are able to provide?

I am one of the most pro-volunteer people you can find, but I just don't see the positive to this concept as presented in his opinion piece.