Plattsburgh City firefighter grievances spark response

[Guest ab2se]

From The Plattsburgh NY Press Republican

Link to story: http://www.pressrepublican.com/0100_news/l...eyword=topstory

City firefighter grievances spark response

Union argues against unpaid overtime for rookies at academy

By JOE LoTEMPLIO

Staff Writer

PLATTSBURGH — Actions taken by the Plattsburgh Fire Department union have training officials downstate wondering about the local firefighters' priorities.

Edited November 15, 2008 by jack10562
Source Site Copyright Notice

[ny10570 745]

Good for the union. The didn't complain about the work, they complained about not getting paid for it.

[gamewell45 258]

Someone should remind the city that slavery was abolished in 1865!

[jack10562 414]

Exactly how many NY State Fire Academies (or any other Civil Service training for that matter) have a full time residency requirement anyway?

Up at 0600 -curfew 1900, ...This is NOT the military.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

While the issue sounds very familiar overall, it is also important to understand that the union is there to protect its members. The bigger picture outside of the OT was to reduce the chances of a probie being thrown to the wolves in the event they got injured not during "normal working hours." As far as them having to say there, I have no problem with that. That is the policy of their academy and can see there point very clearly. While we are not military we are paramilitary and in some environments it may work for them. If a department has an issue with it, then they don't have to send their personnel there. Overall that article paints them in a negative light, what a surprise as many papers are anti-labor, but they didn't raise issues directly with the academy, they brought their issues based on their collective bargaining agreement and what they felt needed to be addressed and they made their point successfully.

[weaselff 6]

I think when you are on probation or "new" in any profession its probably always best to just kind of go with the flow and not make too many waves, unless there is some sort of SERIOUS grievance. Remember the impression you make in your first few months will last through an entire career. Apparently the academy Plattsburgh sends their probies to is more paramilitary style. Until the city sends their recruits elsewhere this is just the way things are.

[INIT915 1,119]

Exactly how many NY State Fire Academies (or any other Civil Service training for that matter) have a full time residency requirement anyway?

Up at 0600 -curfew 1900, ...This is NOT the military.

My academy was Sun eveing til Fri night. Up at 0500 for PT and going straight thru until 2200-2300, not 1 minute of OT for the entire 26 weeks.

[weaselff 6]

Exactly how many NY State Fire Academies (or any other Civil Service training for that matter) have a full time residency requirement anyway?

Up at 0600 -curfew 1900, ...This is NOT the military.

I dont know if its changed with some of the more recent classes, but FDNY academy, especially in the first few weeks, we reported at 0600 and often didn't leave the gates until 1700 hrs, with some probies staying for unpaid mandatory extra help in PT and other evolutions. Then we drove home to points all over the metro area to eat, study, sleep and prepare to do it all over the next day!

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

I think the union has a legitamate gripe. If they are working for more than 8 hrs a day. They should be paid for it. Several agencies run their academy's on a 24 hr basis. NY State Police, NYS Corrections to name a few. This IS the first FD academy that I have ever heard of being a sleep over to be honest with you. I have to agree with ALS. I think the confinement is more to prevent them from getting jammed up and loosing their jobs.

The diffrence with the FDNY academy having people stay later than 1700 hrs for extra help and not getting paid for it and this issue is that they are staying after for EXTRA help. If the individual FF can't pass something and has to stay later with instructors willing to help. The "benifit" will come later when the Probie finished the academy, and still has a job.

[Guest]

CT is a Resident Academy

[Danger 160]

Dear "Mean" Fire Academy,

I really, really want a job and I'd love to take one of the spots in your "overbearing" academy. The way I look at it, my current job already sucks and I love going to fire training, therefore I'm sure I could suffer through this for 18 weeks.

Sincerely,

John

[Guest FFNick]

Unless there is someone here who is a member of the Plattsburgh Local, or knows someone in that Local, I think we should back off a bit. The paper prints what it wants, how it wants, and as mentioned, they are usually anti-labor, if not pro-controversy. This topic is the one that we read about in regards to Plattsburgh FFs v. their City, but there are more than likely many other issues, and this is where the union saw that they could make a stand. You don't have to agree with it, especially since, I'm assuming, none of you actually work there.

[ny10570 745]

But this issue isn't just about Plattsburgh. Take out the names and put in anyone's. These guys were not being compensated for the time they were working and their union chose to do something about it. At many academy's its accepted that you will be working many more hours than you are going to be paid. Thats not the case in this situation. Their union chose to address it and the members are now being paid for it. Good for them.

[JFLYNN 681]

Dear "Mean" Fire Academy,

I really, really want a job and I'd love to take one of the spots in your "overbearing" academy. The way I look at it, my current job already sucks and I love going to fire training, therefore I'm sure I could suffer through this for 18 weeks.

Sincerely,

John

Dear John,

Maybe if your current job had a good union it wouldn't suck as much as you think it does...and maybe someday you'll be old and wise enough not to make veiled criticisms of others from the outside looking in...

Sincerely,

Former angry know it all 20something year old (now older and wiser)

[Danger 160]

You are completely right (as well as older and wiser) because the main reason why my job went down the, ahem, toilet is because the employees failed to unionize when they had the chance.

Sincerely,

Someone who works 44-56 hours a week and only gets paid for 40 thanks to (former) co-workers (who are now laid off) who vetoed joining a union.

Not really criticizing, more empathizing, sorry for coming across that way, chief

[Rimrockny24 0]

The fire academy in Utica is overnight. They are up at 0530 and alot of the time would not be done with the day till 2200. It is very military type in style. I believe the main reason that it is an overnight is because it helps to instill discipline and also helps to teach brotherhood. The entire building is checked everyday to ensure that it is spotless and all chores are compleated. If one thing is not done the entire group is punished. This makes sure everyone is pulling their weight and doing there part like they will have to one day on the fire scene.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Rimrockny24

[Guest alsfirefighter]

LOL. I think some of you sometimes read what you want to read. There isn't one place where it said a probie complained...this was a union issue taken by the union. Apparantly you have not been around any departments who have tried and some who actually have screwed their probie's who have gotten injured during their academy, by turning around and saying that it didn't occur "during working hours." For example...they get paid 40 hour work week...that means 8 to 4 or whatever 8 hour block. Probie breaks his anke during PT at 7:30 am...municipal "managment" argues its not during working hours hence it is a comp case and not disability via 207-a. Then who's the smart one? The union for getting the issue handled. So why most of them are going with the flow, the union is making sure they are protected even if they don't know it or in some cases don't care because they are just happy to be on the job and don't see the long term ramifications of what could happen to them as I described.

[firecapt32 282]

As a former director of a Fire Academy let assure you that the unions are at work --hopefully protecting their members. In Westchester we had to include the PT hours as part of the day, so that if any probie got hurt they would at least have some coverage. The day lasted till 1600 hours because that's what we were told were the probies working hours 0800 to 1600. Do admit to keeping them at times till 1630 but it was a rare occasion. As for the brother hood I can also tell you that they got along just fine and are now staffing their departments with over 300 hours of State and local training. You do need discipline but not punishment, there is a difference. You do not have to punish people to make them work for you--you lead by example and show them what the fire Service and brotherhood is all about, they get the message loud and clear from the instructors.

I can also tell you that the state of New York OFPC has to approve the Academy and its content. It has the responsibility of the training of probationary firefighters in the State of New York. So they must have approves the Utica Academy