Survival Training @ Dutchess County Training Center

[markmets415 524]

A few photos of bailout training from last evening, 11/13/08 at the Dutchess County Training Center; thanks to Frank Lacalamita (State Fire Instructor and 39-3) for the instruction:

Edited November 14, 2008 by markmets415

[markmets415 524]

a few more

[markmets415 524]

the last three before the camera went back away because of the rain.

oops Aaron lost his helmet!

Edited November 14, 2008 by markmets415

[Guest]

thanks to Frank Lacalamita (State Fire Instructor and 39-3) for the instruction:

Frank is a sharp guy!

[markmets415 524]

The class was excellent, we also got some instruction on different systems and the pros and cons of them, thanks also to Bob Jenks from Millerton and Mount Vernon FD's for his demo on the Petzl system

Edited November 14, 2008 by markmets415

[effd3918 34]

cant wait until I take this class on saturday!! great pictures

[markmets415 524]

cant wait until I take this class on saturday!! great pictures

Would have had more pics but the weather didn't help, looks like the weather will be no better for you tomorrow either, enjoy the class.

[markmets415 524]

I forgot one, this is Frank helping out Wassaic Firefighter Cyndi Butts who is attempting this for the first time, Good job Cyndi!!!!!

Edited November 14, 2008 by markmets415

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Was this the body belay technique, and if so what did you think?

[markmets415 524]

Yes Paul, it went ok, practice practice practice, one of our members actually got the rope twisted around one wrist and got the hands to high, this got corrected quickly with the safety belay line and the window spotter.

I really liked the petzl kit the best, it seemed much more flexible, the only con is the cost factor, to me that should not be an issue, but when you have a small budget it becomes one. We most likely will try to use a grant fo the purchase.

[Beekman 5]

One of the drawbacks of the Pertzl is that you need to train regularly with it. I used Frank's Petzl and dropped to the ground because it is very finicky and touchy when you try to descend. If you are not going to practice at least quartely, save your money and buy rope and a beaner.

[markmets415 524]

One of the drawbacks of the Pertzl is that you need to train regularly with it. I used Frank's Petzl and dropped to the ground because it is very finicky and touchy when you try to descend. If you are not going to practice at least quartely, save your money and buy rope and a beaner.

Yeah that's what we have been told

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

I initially learned using the body belay technigue and carried rope with a beaner and felt that it worked fine. I have since been issued the petzyl system at work and feel it is a good system. I agree that regular training is a must, but that goes with all systems I suppose. Being as my Captain helped develop the system we are fortunate to get regular training and have actually built a bailout window in the firehouse. Another option would be the short platform in use at the rock, its basically a platform with a window frame that stands about 8 feet high. Easy to build at the firehouse, and can be made portable so others can benefit from it. Good luck with whatever you choose, and stay safe.

Paul D.

[markmets415 524]

I initially learned using the body belay technigue and carried rope with a beaner and felt that it worked fine. I have since been issued the petzyl system at work and feel it is a good system. I agree that regular training is a must, but that goes with all systems I suppose. Being as my Captain helped develop the system we are fortunate to get regular training and have actually built a bailout window in the firehouse. Another option would be the short platform in use at the rock, its basically a platform with a window frame that stands about 8 feet high. Easy to build at the firehouse, and can be made portable so others can benefit from it. Good luck with whatever you choose, and stay safe.

Paul D.

Agreed Paul we really need to train often, a mock up window is a great tool and idea, Thanks

[firefighter-70 27]

One of the drawbacks of the Pertzl is that you need to train regularly with it. I used Frank's Petzl and dropped to the ground because it is very finicky and touchy when you try to descend. If you are not going to practice at least quartely, save your money and buy rope and a beaner.

I find the fact that you dropped to the ground very interesting. How did you deploy the system? Did you have your hand on the XO (GRI-GRI) arm or what? We tested seven systems and by far the PETZL XO is the clear choice, bar none. First, all of the other systems need re-training every 30 days at a minimum. It all works great in training, laying the rope through the snap link, then securing it around your waist, then placing your haligan into the window corner (this assumes you have a halligan and oh yeah there is a hole in the concrete wall for the tool like most training centers do) then bailing while keeping control of your decent with both of your gloved hands. The PETZL when deployed is "Hook, Look, and Book" out and away from danger. Firefighters that dont use ropes and hardware have to be spot checked all the time. Alot of people talk the talk but can't walk the walk when it comes to hands on with ropes. I have met several firefighters that are the cats a$$ when it come to knowledge and use. Black Sunday for FDNY proved that when the turds hit the fan, a system thats simple and fast is the only answer. Cost do play a factor, life is priceless and I would advocate for the best when comes to the welfare of my battle buddies.

[x129K 1,393]

One of the drawbacks of the Pertzl is that you need to train regularly with it. I used Frank's Petzl and dropped to the ground because it is very finicky and touchy when you try to descend. If you are not going to practice at least quartely, save your money and buy rope and a beaner.

The first time I did the rope slide with my Gemtor I did the same thing...Operator error..thank goodness for the the redundant back up.

I agree 1000 percent that at least quarterly training is very important to these survival techniques...we had discussed making a mock window frame to put on the roof of the fire house for ladder ops, but it could be made in a fashion to double as a bail out window. Hmmmm......

The new station in Poughkeepise has a slick set up in the apparatus bay. There are some "window" openings used for this very purpose.

Photo courtesy of www.local596.com - check the site for more pics.

http://www.local596.com/galleryphoto/main....84f437eff5fdd3d

[firefighter-70 27]

The first time I did the rope slide with my Gemtor I did the same thing...Operator error..thank goodness for the the redundant back up.

I agree 1000 percent that at least quarterly training is very important to these survival techniques...we had discussed making a mock window frame to put on the roof of the fire house for ladder ops, but it could be made in a fashion to double as a bail out window. Hmmmm......

The new station in Poughkeepise has a slick set up in the apparatus bay. There are some "window" openings used for this very purpose.

Photo courtesy of www.local596.com - check the site for more pics.

http://www.local596.com/galleryphoto/main....84f437eff5fdd3d

Local 596 and POK FD did this the right way. Going home after every tour/call is what its about. They can in house train with little set up or trouble, looks outstanding. My hats off to them!!

[ny10570 745]

remember, when bailing with the petzel your hand is not on the lever. Once you're out the window you can then use the lever to begin your descent.

[markmets415 524]

I find the fact that you dropped to the ground very interesting. How did you deploy the system? Did you have your hand on the XO (GRI-GRI) arm or what? We tested seven systems and by far the PETZL XO is the clear choice, bar none. First, all of the other systems need re-training every 30 days at a minimum. It all works great in training, laying the rope through the snap link, then securing it around your waist, then placing your haligan into the window corner (this assumes you have a halligan and oh yeah there is a hole in the concrete wall for the tool like most training centers do) then bailing while keeping control of your decent with both of your gloved hands. The PETZL when deployed is "Hook, Look, and Book" out and away from danger. Firefighters that dont use ropes and hardware have to be spot checked all the time. Alot of people talk the talk but can't walk the walk when it comes to hands on with ropes. I have met several firefighters that are the cats a$$ when it come to knowledge and use. Black Sunday for FDNY proved that when the turds hit the fan, a system thats simple and fast is the only answer. Cost do play a factor, life is priceless and I would advocate for the best when comes to the welfare of my battle buddies.

Excellent post, thanks for the insight and I agree $$$$ should not be a factor.

[firefighter-70 27]

remember, when bailing with the petzel your hand is not on the lever. Once you're out the window you can then use the lever to begin your descent.

My point to the letter. Once you get the XO (gri-gri) just past the window sill, you just have to fall out the window head first. Trust me, after training thousands of slides with the PETZL XO if you just get the firefighter out the window, his hands can just about be any place. The system is closed so he will not fall until the lever (gas pedal) is pulled. We teach hand position (left hand grasping left is side wall/molding, right hand holding rope 6-12 inches below the XO and punching the outside wall at the 5 O'clock position. We've had firefighters just screw this all up in that "state of confusion mode" and just about flip over, a complete 360 and the Petzl XO still worked fine. I would put the XO above any of the other systems on the market. With the XO you can move from a remote tie off position or to a window sill for a last resort bail, it works just plain smooth. The others we tested all worked, none came close to the XO. I am not a saleman, just advocating for those great Americans "Firefighters"!!!

[markmets415 524]

When LT. Jenks demo'd his unit (Petzl) it was so flexible in it's use, I liked the idea of being able to put the hook around a door hinge, under a door, around a fixed object, it just seemed far more flexible then the others used that night.