Rear Facing Blue Lights For Fire & EMS Apparatus-Law Passed Yet?

[irishfire2491 24]

Okay fisrt before anyone goes crazy and off the wall I don't want this to be a debate weather Fire and EMS should or should not have them.

What I am trying to find out is If the law has passed that Ambulance and Fire trucks are allow by law and part 800 for NYS to display a rear facing blue light like police. I have been doing some research and came up with nothing, I have called the DOH HQ and they refereed me to the Part 800 code on the DOH website I came up with nothing. The only reason I am asking is because I have seen some agency ambulance with Rear Facing Blue light on the Rigs through out Westchester and Dutchess and possible Putnam. If any one has any information that would be great.

Thanks

Lt O'Brien

Cortlandt Ambulance.

[Goose 188]

Exactly what proposed legislation are you talking about? If you know the name of the proposed bill you can usually track it through the approval process.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Goose

[jfmuller 23]

Assembly:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A10412

Senate:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S08060

Nothing approved.

[helicopper 1,050]

Okay fisrt before anyone goes crazy and off the wall I don't want this to be a debate weather Fire and EMS should or should not have them.

What I am trying to find out is If the law has passed that Ambulance and Fire trucks are allow by law and part 800 for NYS to display a rear facing blue light like police. I have been doing some research and came up with nothing, I have called the DOH HQ and they refereed me to the Part 800 code on the DOH website I came up with nothing. The only reason I am asking is because I have seen some agency ambulance with Rear Facing Blue light on the Rigs through out Westchester and Dutchess and possible Putnam. If any one has any information that would be great.

Thanks

Lt O'Brien

Cortlandt Ambulance.

Since when has the law ever stopped someone or an agency from doing what they wanted?

[irishfire2491 24]

Since when has the law ever stopped someone or an agency from doing what they wanted?

i understand what you are say Chris but as my position I have to follow the rules. And if being inspected by the DOH. I dont want to be thrown out of service or even Fined for have the Blue light until approved. Now as for my own POV it never stopped me lol. (Maybe you can see me one day from the air when I am going to a call Look for the Bright Glow on the ground!!! lol

I have talked to someone who was at the legelsative meeting the past week and he stated that the process has to go to on more checkpoint before being voted on so it comes down to a matter of time before it is passed or denied

[ny10570 745]

DOH doesn't care if you have blue lights on the truck

[OoO 24]

DOH doesn't care if you have blue lights on the truck

Agreed, not the DOH's policy to enforce. Emergency vehicle lights fall under the vehicle and traffic code, which would be enforced by the police. I can't really see a police officer writing a citation to their local EMS agency.

[RPM3311 3]

Rescue 2 has two blue lights on the back of their piece, no ones stopped them yet

[PC_420 28]

Just because agencies do it, doesn't make it right.

Or as my Catholic School Principal yelled at me once: Two wrongs don't make a right!

[Guest CRASH]

Just because agencies do it, doesn't make it right.

Or as my Catholic School Principal yelled at me once: Two wrongs don't make a right!

.

.

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N.Y.C. busses are now using blue flashing led's .

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they are also very bright.

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they are being used on certain specialized busses/routes like the bx 12

[Tanker 10eng 140]

WOW, don't drive through Croton with a blue light on an apparatus, they will pull you over... Our LT44 was pulled over after an alarm and told not to use them or next time a ticket will be written...

[gamewell45 258]

WOW, don't drive through Croton with a blue light on an apparatus, they will pull you over... Our LT44 was pulled over after an alarm and told not to use them or next time a ticket will be written...

Were they pulled over by the state or local agency?

[irishfire2491 24]

Were they pulled over by the state or local agency?

LOCAL CROTON PD

Some Croton PD don't like FD I was heading to Harmon house to give my Cuz a hand with something and a CPD pulled me over and asked where I was going and I told him To the FD and he told me wrong answer to say and gave me a ticket.

I think it is really sad that Emergency Service can not get along and work together. We all need each other at one time or another to help cover up our mistakes and they do happen. No one is better then the other they are just skilled at their job.

[gamewell45 258]

LOCAL CROTON PD

Some Croton PD don't like FD I was heading to Harmon house to give my Cuz a hand with something and a CPD pulled me over and asked where I was going and I told him To the FD and he told me wrong answer to say and gave me a ticket.

I think it is really sad that Emergency Service can not get along and work together. We all need each other at one time or another to help cover up our mistakes and they do happen. No one is better then the other they are just skilled at their job.

Sounds to me that some of the CPD members have too much time on their hands; one would think that they'd have better things to do then bust FD's for technicalities involving lights.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Sounds to me that some of the CPD members have too much time on their hands; one would think that they'd have better things to do then bust FD's for technicalities involving lights.

NYS V&T § 375. Equipment.

4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in subparagraph b of this paragraph.

Look like the Law is pretty clear on this one. If it was any other law, people here would be complaining about selective enforcement of the law.

[PVFD113 6]

NYS V&T § 375. Equipment.

4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in subparagraph b of this paragraph.

Look like the Law is pretty clear on this one. If it was any other law, people here would be complaining about selective enforcement of the law.

Understandable--but it also says--and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter -- does not reflect the recent change for police agencies--

does any one have the updated revisions? Does it state police vehicles, emergency vehicles? I understood police could have them to the rear--yet there are some that face front, rear, as well as rotator's. So--how is this enforced?

I am certainly not trying to argue--just bringing up some points I feel are valid. Personally--if it would improve the safety of my crew in any way--I would put pink and purple lights if I had to.

[AFS1970 504]

Is there any real reason why our states restrict the different colors by function? Think about Blue and Green, does it really matter if it is a Volunteer Firefighter or EMT? Are not both going on Emergency Calls? Despite both Police Cars and Fire Apparatus having red lights, red is one of the least visible in the spectrum. Other than retaining a historical identity that can be done by other methods do these colors serve any real purpose?

Now I am not usually one to rave about how things are done in other countries but I have noticed that in msot if not all of Europe all agencies use Blue lights and noone seems to get confused between the police, fire and ambulance agencies and they pull over for everyone.

[PVFD113 6]

This is true. They really should--maybe the federal govt or someone step up and come up with a standard across the country--could eliminate alot of confusion as well as improve safety of the roadway's

[Bnechis 3,961]

Understandable--but it also says--and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter -- does not reflect the recent change for police agencies--does any one have the updated revisions? Does it state police vehicles, emergency vehicles? I understood police could have them to the rear--yet there are some that face front, rear, as well as rotator's. So--how is this enforced? I am certainly not trying to argue--just bringing up some points I feel are valid. Personally--if it would improve the safety of my crew in any way--I would put pink and purple lights if I had to.

sorry, thats the version I found on the NYS Legislative - State Laws site. I do remeber reading the exemption for rear facing blue for law enforcement only.

Who enforces it? CPD

It will also be enforced if an agency is sued after an accident. "please read the underlined portion of the law to the court and then tell the court why you had that illegal blue light on your vehicle"

[Bnechis 3,961]

Is there any real reason why our states restrict the different colors by function?

Yes because FASNY has been fighting to keep it this way for decades.

Think about Blue and Green, does it really matter if it is a Volunteer Firefighter or EMT? Are not both going on Emergency Calls?

Yes in many communities. When I was a volunteer (FF & Medic) the town PD would allow a little more discretion to green, because only 2 or 3 were coming (they would wave us thru red lights, etc.) but with 20 blue lights coming, what difference does it make if it takes an extra 60 seconds for 3 to show up?

Despite both Police Cars and Fire Apparatus having red lights, red is one of the least visible in the spectrum. Other than retaining a historical identity that can be done by other methods do these colors serve any real purpose?

Blue is even less visable in the spectum, it just is more obvious when all you see is red tail/brake lights. FASNY just wants the historic identity of the VFD.

Now I am not usually one to rave about how things are done in other countries but I have noticed that in msot if not all of Europe all agencies use Blue lights and noone seems to get confused between the police, fire and ambulance agencies and they pull over for everyone.

They pull over because a driving in europe is truly a privalidge. In Germany some penalties include perminant loss of your licence, they also will send a large bill to the registered owner, just based on the dash cam, you dont need to confront the driver, just get a pic.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This is true. They really should--maybe the federal govt or someone step up and come up with a standard across the country--could eliminate alot of confusion as well as improve safety of the roadway's

They never will, it could ecome a states rights issue. The feds can only do it if it deals with interstate, not instate.

Besides I don't want the feds wasting time on this.....solve the big problems.

[PVFD113 6]

Good point.

[abaduck 123]

They pull over because a driving in europe is truly a privalidge. In Germany some penalties include perminant loss of your licence, they also will send a large bill to the registered owner, just based on the dash cam, you dont need to confront the driver, just get a pic.

They also pull over because - I have to say it - by and large, Europeans, in particular Northern Europeans, simply are better, and better educated, drivers than we are. I learned to drive in the UK; when driving in NY I use the 'seven minute rule'; I bear in mind at all times that all those other drivers on the road around me got their license after taking a driving test that lasts around seven minutes and has a... what? 99% pass rate? (In the UK, the driving test lasts around 45 minutes and less than 50% pass the test first time)

And I can't swear to Germany, but in the UK we have a lot of automatic speed cameras, fixed and mobile, and if a car is caught by one of these, the registered owner gets a *demand to name the driver*, not a bill or points or anything. I can't imagine Germany being much different. The points and fine go to the driver identified by the owner, not the owner themselves.

Mike

[Remember585 815]

I wouldn't generalize Croton PD as anti-FD. On the whole they're a great organization with a couple of people who sometimes seem to have personal agendas aimed towards members of our Department. The usual ones who like to break our chops are ironically members of the FD or former members of our FD. Hmm.......

It also doesn't help when someone throws a dozen switches on powering up more lights then the Rockefeller Christmas Tree and drive like they're in the final heat of the Daytona 500. Thankfully the members have calmed down and learned to abide by the law a lot better then we did a few years back. Plus one of the biggest offenders of the blue light law (cough) me (cough) finally grew up and sadly became a Chief Officer... so now it is my job to do the right thing and set an example for my peers.

I did have a good laugh in the beginning of the year when someone complained to our PD about a vehicle matching mine went "flying by with a blue light on," and I got questioned by a cop, only to reply, "Um, yeah I drive the Chief's Car now, so it wasn't me, thanks for asking."

[xchief2x 79]

Regarding the CPD, as a retired sgt from that agency I know they have looked the other way for a long time, and they have been disrected by many members of the CFD. And yes like my son said it is only a select few officers that are involved. While employed there and while I was serving my 2 terms as Chief of the CFD I made it clear to the officers of the CPD that if they caught a member of the FD violating the law to handle it like any other driver and that I did not want to hear about it or get called regarding the infraction. I told the members of the FD that if they got caught and got a summons, again, I did not want to hear about it.

[EJS1810 7]

sorry, thats the version I found on the NYS Legislative - State Laws site. I do remeber reading the exemption for rear facing blue for law enforcement only.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf...OMMONQUERY=LAWS

4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle

owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle

owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household

or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary

interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer

firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by

the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a

member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time

by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such

blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on

such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of

blue and red light combinations shall be prohibited on all fire

vehicles. The use of blue lights on fire vehicles shall be prohibited

and the use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only

by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in

subparagraph b of this paragraph.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed

pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights

or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white

lights may be affixed to a police vehicle, provided that such blue light

or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle for rear projection

only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle

obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on

such vehicle, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the

trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicle. Such lights may be

displayed on a police vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an

emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be

deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles unless

such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white

lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

c. The commissioner is authorized to promulgate rules and regulations

relating to the use, placement, power and display of blue lights on a

police vehicle.

Edited November 5, 2008 by EJS1810

[joshlost818 6]

Rescue 2 has two blue lights on the back of their piece, no ones stopped them yet

Which rescue 2?

[JetPhoto 626]

What would happen if someone got into an accident with a fire or ems veh. that displayed blue lights and while they are sueing decide to add on the fact that the fd was operating in violation to the NYS V & T law?

[ny10570 745]

There are a few things that must be proven before you are found culpable in a legal action in civil court. One of them is that said violation was a contributing factor in the accident.

[RWC130 594]

With all due respect, I find it pretty funny that my fellow Volunteer Firefighters and EMT's want to use

BLUE LIGHTS on Emergency Vehicles such as Fire Apparatus and Ambulances.

Why didn't YOU support this bill when it was proposed by the New York State Police?

Had YOU supported it maybe today ALL Emergency Vehicles would have Rear Facing Blue Lights

not just Law Enforcement.

As of today, In New York State, Rear Facing Blue Lights are for Law Enforcement ONLY

Back on December 19, 2002 Trooper Robert W. Ambrose was struck and killed on I-87 in Yonkers

while writing an accident report on the side of the road.

After this incident the New York State Troopers PBA fought for several safety improvements,

one of them being BLUE LIGHTS. I know this first hand because I am happy to say I was part of that fight.

Shortly after Trooper Ambrose was killed I sent letters to the Governor, State Senators,

House Speaker, and State Police Superintendent pushing for this revised Blue Light law.

Any members of the State Police who know me can vouch for me

including the President of the New York State Police PBA.

Moving on....

Where were all the Volunteer Firefighters?

FASNY did nothing but try to FIGHT this along with numerous Volunteer Firefighters

across New York State and now YOU want to use Blue Lights on Fire Apparatus and Ambulances?

I am all for SAFETY, without a doubt BLUE really gets attention on the roadways

and I agree that ALL Emergency Vehicles should have Rear Facing Blue Lights.

Police, Fire, and EMS.

Just remember next time we fight something such as allowing Law Enforcement to use Blue Lights

lets educate ourselves on SAFETY. We can ALL benefit from it.

I hope this new bill is passed.

BE SAFE!