What Constitutes An LODD Statistically?

[x635 4,066]

I'm sure this is a touchy subject for some, but please, let's keep this discussion civil and respectful.

While reading through some of the LODD reports of the past, I've noticed some troubling facts.

Some of the LODD's included elderly members of firefighter who collapsed at a non-firematic event such as a parade or at the firehouse. Or, what seems often enough, Fire Police collasping while on scene. While looking further into NIOSH reports, many of these people had existing cardiac and other problems that weren't considered by their department.

So, each year we quote a number of firefighters who die, and these people are included. I acknowledge and respect that they probaly gave many years of service to their community, and should be entitled to whatever benefits their department provides, but my concern is lumping these deaths into LODD statistics.

Until we start sorting this out, we're never going to see our LODD rate go down......

[abaduck 123]

This promises to be an interesting topic. I'm not going to touch on your actual question too directly, but there is some information I would like to have. As we probably all know, deaths due to cardiac issues feature most prominently in the LODD statistics. Now interior firefighting is bloody hard work, possibly (but not, I would suggest, probably) uniquely hard work, in terms of being physically demanding.

I would like to see how many of these cardiac deaths are down to active interior firefighters, who succumb on the fireground or shortly after leaving the fireground, and how those figures relate to cardiac deaths in other physically-demanding occupations - construction, garbage collectors, etc. etc.

I suspect the results would be interesting; I'd like to see just how deadly the fireground really is from a cardiac point of view, as compared to other workplaces.

Mike

[jack10562 414]

The 2007 NFPA Report on FireFighter Fatalities gives some insight to the sudden cardiac cases.

The entire report is an eye-opener.

http://www.iaff.org/08News/PDF/NFPAReport.pdf

It would be very interesting to see a comparison with other occupations.

[edit]

Okay, here's some data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics / scroll to Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries

http://www.bls.gov/iif/

[Guest]

But, how how can you separate the "existing cardiac problems" from the cardiac consequences of being a firefighter for years. Responding to calls in the middle of the night, where your heart rate can go from 50 or 60 bpm to 120+ in a very short period of time, and repeating this possibly several times a night for 20+ years, can be very damaging to the heart. The physical stress a firefighter goes through during a fire, from the body's reactions to the emergency, to suppresion and overhaul, are much more shocking to the body than simply doing hard labor for that same amount of time. Not to say that every person who has ever been a firefighter who ever has a heart attack should be entitled to LODD benefits, or that hard working people aren't at risk for heart attack, but heart attacks during or after emergencies are most likely related to performing firefighting duties.

[EJS1810 7]

I receive LODD notifications from the US Fire Administration (USFA). When they give the notification, the following disclaimer appears at the botton of each one:

To date, XX firefighter fatalities have been reported to USFA in 2008 as a result of incidents that occurred in 2008.

USFA does not have a Line-of-Duty-Death (LODD) criterion nor does it make LODD determinations

. Please note, running totals of firefighter fatalities used on these initial notices do not necessarily reflect the number of firefighter fatalities used in totals for the (provisional) monthly year-to-date USFA firefighter fatality reports, or year-end (provisional) reports posted online

It appears there is no "official" criteria. LODD is a "local" decision

[helicopper 1,050]

But, how how can you separate the "existing cardiac problems" from the cardiac consequences of being a firefighter for years. Responding to calls in the middle of the night, where your heart rate can go from 50 or 60 bpm to 120+ in a very short period of time, and repeating this possibly several times a night for 20+ years, can be very damaging to the heart. The physical stress a firefighter goes through during a fire, from the body's reactions to the emergency, to suppresion and overhaul, are much more shocking to the body than simply doing hard labor for that same amount of time. Not to say that every person who has ever been a firefighter who ever has a heart attack should be entitled to LODD benefits, or that hard working people aren't at risk for heart attack, but heart attacks during or after emergencies are most likely related to performing firefighting duties.

If you've got a pre-existing cardiac condition how can you remain an active firefighter? If you're 75 years old and have a history of heart trouble should you be responding to jobs as the fire police or anything else?

[Bnechis 3,961]

If you've got a pre-existing cardiac condition how can you remain an active firefighter? If you're 75 years old and have a history of heart trouble should you be responding to jobs as the fire police or anything else?

What do most 75 year old with heart trouble die from? Answer....a bad heart

Does it make a big diference if they are directing traffic or sitting at home?

If we have not figured out that the average life expectancy in the U.S. for white males (which make up almost all of the FF's in the age group) is 75.7 years?

The bigger issue is it a LODD? Yes they were serving the community (and many for most of their lives) but if your heart gives out at the time it is expected to and you happen to have a turnout coat on at that moment it in my opinion a true LODD.

While the dept is free to call it that to make the family happy, how can you go up to any FF monument and compare this to those members who valiantly ran in to the WTC or who got caught in a flashover while push hard to save a fire victim?

[EJS1810 7]

While the dept is free to call it that to make the family happy, how can you go up to any FF monument and compare this to those members who valiantly ran in to the WTC or who got caught in a flashover while push hard to save a fire victim?

In that train of thought, what do you do about the approximamtly 25 FF who die each year responding or returning from calls who are not wearing a seatbelt or driving too fast for conditions in apparatus that should not be on the road. What about the 10-20 FF who die each year in training mishaps? What about the FF who die because their leadership failed them and sent them in a place they shouldn't be in? I feel a LODD is any FF who dies doing the job, no matter what job s/he is doing. We can't start micro-managing the criteria.

[JM15 386]

Well said EJS. I feel that there are too many needless deaths in the fire service. BUT they are still deaths while performing a duty to the community and should be considered LODD. I know that there are a lot of 75 or 80 year old members of departments, but when is the time that you tell someone who has a passion for the fire service and helping their communities that they are too old?

[Bnechis 3,961]

BUT they are still deaths while performing a duty to the community and should be considered LODD. I know that there are a lot of 75 or 80 year old members of departments, but when is the time that you tell someone who has a passion for the fire service and helping their communities that they are too old?

So if a 96 year old is flipping pancakes at the fund raiser and its "his time" thats the same as any of the 343?

Its great that he is active, but don't claim he is in the same class and deserves the same benefits and recognition

NYS Law says 30 days after your 62nd Birthday for career FF's (with a minor loophole in the law that a few chiefs have been able to use). Now why would the state do that? Could it be thats the point when heart attacks in FF's spike way up, this putting both the FF and the public at risk? Could it be that once again the vol. lobby in Albany wants 2 standards? This is no different than the argument over at what age is too old to drive....no one wants to offend sr citizens (large voting block).