How does your FD handle delinquent physicals

[ckroll 101]

How does your FD manage the requirement for annual physicals? I volunteer for Department X and this year I was 16 days late getting mine because of my job. I was told by the Chief that this would be OK. Apparently he has had a change of heart. I got the physical but at the next meeting he moved me to probationary status and even though I have a department physical now, he says there is no way to return me to active status until sometime next year when I've had a second physical for 2009.

It seems excessive to take a 20 year member with 1800 calls off active status for almost a year for missing the date for a physical. I am interested how other departments handle situations like this.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Chris192
Redacted name of department from post.

[ex-commish 490]

How does your FD manage the requirement for annual physicals? I volunteer for Department X and this year I was 16 days late getting mine because of my job. I was told by the Chief that this would be OK. Apparently he has had a change of heart. I got the physical but at the next meeting he moved me to probationary status and even though I have a department physical now, he says there is no way to return me to active status until sometime next year when I've had a second physical for 2009.

It seems excessive to take a 20 year member with 1800 calls off active status for almost a year for missing the date for a physical. I am interested how other departments handle situations like this.

I agree it is excessive since you did get the physical and it was only 16 days.

[PVFD113 6]

I have rescinded my earlier post--thanks Jack--I didn't see the need to air any department's "dirty laundry". We can accomplish the same thing with out mentioning names.

Anyway--to respond to the questions--Yes the Chief has SOP's in place for a lot of things including physicals. And honestly--there is more to the story than what was revealed.

IMO--the rules are the rules--no matter where you go--agree or disagree.

Edited October 17, 2008 by PVFD113

[helicopper 1,050]

What is the requirement for the physical? Is it "annually", is it "no later than X date", is it "per year". Is it written policy or is this subject to the interpretation of each chief?

It seems to me that if you had an annual physical during the year, you'd be good. Even the FAA gives you a window to complete your annual physical. If you had an FAA medical on September 10, 2007 you have until the last day of September 2008 to get your next one. It doesn't expire on the exact date it was issued.

[helicopper 1,050]

I can understand wanting to know others opinions but from a professional persective--I think you could have left out the department's name. Don't see the need to publicise your personal issue with your department in that fasion. I will not comment on your question as I personally don't feel all the details are listed in your initial post.

IMO--the rules are the rules.

Good point - the name of department has been redacted.

[jack10562 414]

According to NFPA 1582 Standard on Comprehensive Occupational Medical Program for Fire Departments,

7.3- Timing of the Annual Occupational Medical Evaluation of Members.

7.3.3 The annual evaluation shall be completed every 12 months (±3 months).

bold/italic emphasis mine

So, by looking at that, it appears your exam was completed within the give-or-take +/- 3 month timeframe allowed.

If you went beyond 15 months without a medical, then that's another story.

In my opinion, unless you failed any segments of the medical evaluation that precludes active status, you should not be on probationary status for the timing issue alone.

[edit] Topic Moved to more suitable forum

[GAW6 66]

Our Fire District hires a medical company who comes to the firehouse to do the physicals. I believe they came on two different dates. If the members cannot make those dates, they must make an appointment and go on their own to the Dr. This must be done by a certain date. If they do not get a physical by the cut-off date, they are sent a certified letter suspending them and requesting their presence at the next Commissioner's meeting. The suspension stays until the physical is done and we have received the paperwork. Also, if they did not take the physical by the cut-off date, they are responsible for paying for the physical. We also do not accept physicals from their personal physician.

[EJS1810 7]

Everyone opinions are interesting but I don't feel this forum is the place to agree or disagree with a particular departments polices and procedures. As everyone knows, NYS is a "home rule" state where policy is made on the local level. If the leadership of Department "X" (kinda reminds me of Speed Racer, but I digress) set a policy, it is up the the member of "X" to follow it and not question it on a public forum.

[abaduck 123]

Everyone opinions are interesting but I don't feel this forum is the place to agree or disagree with a particular departments polices and procedures. As everyone knows, NYS is a "home rule" state where policy is made on the local level. If the leadership of Department "X" (kinda reminds me of Speed Racer, but I digress) set a policy, it is up the the member of "X" to follow it and not question it on a public forum.

Follow your dept. policy yes, but what's wrong with seeking additional information and asking whether people feel it's a good policy? As they said:

"It seems excessive to take a 20 year member with 1800 calls off active status for almost a year for missing the date for a physical."

Unless there's more - a lot more - that we don't know, that would indeed seem excessive to me. He's 16 days late, with something that sounds like a reasonable excuse: fair enough, place him on inactive or exterior-only status the day the medical runs out, until such time as the medical is passed - is that reasonable? Making a 20-year guy a *probie* again until he passes *next* years physical... what's that supposed to achieve?

If there's a question mark over his fitness he should surely be inactive status, or suspended, not a probie - I presume qualified probies go interior and do everything else on the fireground a full member does?

Mike

[ex-commish 490]

Everyone opinions are interesting but I don't feel this forum is the place to agree or disagree with a particular departments polices and procedures. As everyone knows, NYS is a "home rule" state where policy is made on the local level. If the leadership of Department "X" (kinda reminds me of Speed Racer, but I digress) set a policy, it is up the the member of "X" to follow it and not question it on a public forum.

If anything this is the place to share diasgreements. The brother was asking how we felt about his situation. And if what he says is true than I feel it is wrong to suspend an active person with his amount of time being he did eventually get the physical. He also stated his chief said it was ok then changed his mind.

[ckroll 101]

Thanks for the dialogue. If there is much more to the story than was posted, then my chief owes me an explanation. As the sidebar lists me as a volunteer and I live in Putnam Valley the department should be obvious, redaction or no.

Yes, I am unhappy, but the reason for the post was curiosity pure and simple. I wanted to poll departments for their policies. If all departments behave in this fashion, then maybe it is what it is. If my department is at the end of the spectrum, then perhaps this is an opportunity to look at changing policy. Department policy should not fall to the level of 'dirty laundry' and if it does, then my observation is that that policy needs revision.

.

[NWFDMedic 58]

It's a tough requirement sometimes. My FD has had two days this year to get your physical at the firehouse, the second being this coming Monday evening. Unfortunately, I had to work the first date and I'm working again Monday evening. The letter I got said that I would be removed from the active list if I didn't get the physical, so if I can't get a bit of coverage on Monday, I guess I know what's going to happen.

[jack10562 414]

[edit]Not many have[/edit] brought their department guidelines to the table for discussion, but it's early yet.

The NFPA 1582 Standard's medical exam timeframe requirement is clear.

If it was myself in your shoes, the next step would be to ask your Chief to reconsider his decision, based on the language in the standard above, and failing that, request a copy of the department's adopted written policy regarding the department requirements under the (above) NFPA Standard. Your local policy may well state you have 14 or x# days to get certified, or else....

If you still don't receive satisfaction, you could always appeal your case to your board of Chief's or fire commissioners or fire council or what have you, in order to modify the policy if needed.

Edited October 18, 2008 by jack10562

[GAW6 66]

Nobody else has brought their department guidelines to the table for discussion, but it's early yet.

I believe I did - read above.

[PVFD113 6]

I suggest you make an appointment to speak with the chiefs regarding the matter. Maybe there is something you missed when the reasoning was explained to you.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Edited October 18, 2008 by PVFD113

[JM15 386]

We have a qualified doctor in town that our department uses. When its time for your physical you just call up the doctor and make your own appointment, when it suits you. It works well since you make the appointment on your own time.

[Beekman 5]

Beekman has a written policy in place that is strictly enforced. Interiors have 13 months from their last physical to complete it or you go on "administrative absence" (nice way of saying suspended) until you complete your physical.

I do know of another Department that suspended members for missing requirements (OSHA) and they had to wait until the next year to re-apply.

As for the "why should I care about another department's issues"- two words MUTUAL AID. If Joe Smith from ABC Fire Department shows up to your scene and he hasn't had a physical and gets hurt or worse, guess who's problem it is besides the ABC Fire Department?

[antiquefirelt 994]

As for the "why should I care about another department's issues"- two words MUTUAL AID. If Joe Smith from ABC Fire Department shows up to your scene and he hasn't had a physical and gets hurt or worse, guess who's problem it is besides the ABC Fire Department?

While I understand having some concern, either NY is behind the times or you may not understand M/A. In Maine, it is very clear that as a FD requesting and utilizing M/A personnel I am responsible for their well being on the fireground. I am not responsible to prove or disprove their status, that is the Chief of the incoming dept's responsibility. If I had to worry about physicals and training standards of the M/A companies we'd never call any, period. Similarly I am responsible to ensure that no one from my FD does anything they're not qualified for.

I would agree that in civil case everyone would be named in the lawsuit, but in y state as the chief officer receiving M/A, I'd be cleared fairly quickly, it would be the chief of the injured party's FD that would swing.