Town? Village? Hamlet?

[Guest TCA-ALS25]

Hi, all. Pardon my ignorance. While I occasionally stay w/ relatives in Bronxville and/or Arlington, I primarily live in Philly. As I'm reading the posts, I'm getting confused about things like "unincorporated section of XXX Town."

In PA, we have cities, boroughs and townships.

I think I get the idea, but can someone PM me or post a link explaining the definitions in New York?

Thanks!

[jfmuller 23]

Definitions from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrativ...ons_of_New_York

Under state law, there are three types of incorporated municipalities: cities, villages, and towns. ... The unincorporated communities are located within incorporated towns, and are often called hamlets.

A hamlet is usually a rural community — that is, a small settlement — which is too small to be considered a village.

For example Town of Fishkill includes the following:

Beacon Hills -- A hamlet southwest of Fishkill village and suburb of Beacon.

Brinckerhoff -- A hamlet northeast of Fishkill village.

Brockway -- A hamlet adjacent to the Hudson River, north of Beacon.

Dutchess Junction -- A hamlet south of the city of Beacon.

Glenham -- A hamlet southwest of Fishkill village.

Groveville -- A hamlet southwest of Fishkill village, a suburb of Beacon.

Maurerbrook -- A hamlet west of Fishkill village and location of the annual Maurerbrook luminaries.

A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet, but smaller than a town or city.

Now a village does not have to be one town either for example Village of Wappingers includes the Town of Poughkeepsie and the Town of Wappingers. The fishkill creek divides the village between these towns.

Now to add some more confusion.

The Town of Fishkill is unique in that it contains a Village and a City, Village of Fishkill and City of Beacon.

Now for Fire protection there are:

• Fire districts are public corporations which generally provide fire protection and other emergency response in towns outside villages.
• A fire protection district is established by a town board in order to contract fire protection services with any city, village, fire district or incorporated fire company.

They're are numerous ways in which fire districts and fire protection districts are financially funded. Probably no two are alike in that respect. Also Districts don't necessarily follow the town lines,

For example Chelsea Fire District, Chelsea is a hamlet of the Town of Wappingers, but the Fire District extends into the Town of Fishkill covering the hamlet of Brockway. Also each town can contain more than one Fire District, for Example Town of Fishkill contains, Rombout Fire District, Chelsea Fire District, Glenham Fire District and Dutchess Junction Fire District.

Now the Village of Fishkill is not covered by a District and therefore does not pay a fire tax. It is instead funded through the Village Taxes and is a line item in the Village Budget. Same with the City of Beacon.

[gpdexplorer 46]

In an example in Westcher is the town of Greenburgh which includes:

-the unincorporated town of Greenburgh (big picture)

- the incorporated villages of Greenburgh (Ardsley, Dobbs Ferry, Elmsford, Hastings-on-Hudson, Irvington, and Tarrytown) (multiple small pictures)

-the hamlets of Greenburgh (Hartsdale, the only one I can think of) (even smaller picture)

The unincorporated town has a police department, is compromised of 3 fire districts (Fairview, Hartsdale, Greenville), and has their own town gov't.

The incorporated villages each have their own police department, fire department, and village government.

The hamlets usually have their own fire department, but use the services of the town PD and town government.

That's a brief synopsis.

Feel free to add or correct.

[x648eng119 2]

In an example in Westcher is the town of Greenburgh which includes:

-the unincorporated town of Greenburgh (big picture)

- the incorporated villages of Greenburgh (Ardsley, Dobbs Ferry, Elmsford, Hastings-on-Hudson, Irvington, and Tarrytown) (multiple small pictures)

-the hamlets of Greenburgh (Hartsdale, the only one I can think of) (even smaller picture)

The unincorporated town has a police department, is compromised of 3 fire districts (Fairview, Hartsdale, Greenville), and has their own town gov't.

The incorporated villages each have their own police department, fire department, and village government.

The hamlets usually have their own fire department, but use the services of the town PD and town government.

That's a brief synopsis.

Feel free to add or correct.

2 points to add to that...

1. Would Edgemont be considered a sub-hamelt within the hamlet of Greenville? (Is Greenville even considered a hamlet?)

2. If you ask the residents, anything south of Old Army Rd is SCARSDALE!! (And they wonder why they get Greenburgh PD/EMS, and Greenville Fire!)

[TRUCK6018 50]

For example Chelsea Fire District, Chelsea is a hamlet of the Town of Wappingers, but the Fire District extends into the Town of Fishkill covering the hamlet of Brockway. Also each town can contain more than one Fire District, for Example Town of Fishkill contains, Rombout Fire District, Chelsea Fire District, Glenham Fire District and Dutchess Junction Fire District.

Although I know the answer but what happens when a fire dept (City of Beacon) responds to an area not in their response area (city boundaries) but the place their responding to is not with in any other fire district / protection district? An example of this is houses/structures off Mount Beacon Monument Road. These houses/structures are outside of their response area but the only access is from with in their response area (East Main St to Mountain Rd). Complicating the problem is that these structures are not in any response area as it is state land (who does not pay taxes) or some not for profit such as Scenic Hudson (who does not pay taxes).

[jfmuller 23]

Although I know the answer but what happens when a fire dept (City of Beacon) responds to an area not in their response area (city boundaries) but the place their responding to is not with in any other fire district / protection district? An example of this is houses/structures off Mount Beacon Monument Road. These houses/structures are outside of their response area but the only access is from with in their response area (East Main St to Mountain Rd). Complicating the problem is that these structures are not in any response area as it is state land (who does not pay taxes) or some not for profit such as Scenic Hudson (who does not pay taxes).

There are holes in the system, I also know that when Neighborhoods cross into another Town and/or district it is up to each department to flag these with automatic Mutual Aid. I believe this is the case of Dutchess Park which crosses into the Town of Wappinger, I believe Rombout is on first Dispatch for all Full response type calls (Structure Fire, Gas Leak, etc..) since our substation is located in that neighborhood. The houses pay New Hackensack Fire Tax and are flagged as such but if you look at the map, it would take New Hackensack a long time to reach these house in comparison to Rombout.

As with Mt Beacon, looking at the NYS Real Property Tax data available at www.dutchessny.gov (Parcel mapping) in loading Town of Fishkill and looking at Parcel 133089-6054-00-622560-0000 (Full Property card) for example, it is located at 51 Mt Beacon Monument Rd and is in the Beacon City School District, but for some reason a Fire District was not tacked on. You'll also note that all property's in the City of Beacon do not have a Fire District associated with it since this is funded from the City Budget.

Now if you look at Parcel 133089-6154-00-245425-0000 (Scenic Hudson, Tax exempt) it has Rombout Fire District RF007 associated with it since the Rombout Fire District crosses some part of this parcel. Another example is 260 Bedford Ln, Fishkill, 133089-6056-04-950155-0000 It has both Glenham and Rombout listed since this parcel crosses both Fire Districts and it's state land. These are tax exempt properties but still tagged within their respective district.

So it's anyones guess to why no District is listed on the Mt Beacon properties, perhaps it was once a part of the City, maybe there was an understanding/agreement that they were covered by the City of Beacon, Was the old casino on top of Mt Beacon covered by Beacon fire? Did they have a PILOT program to aid Beacon? Would probably need to lots of research, maybe it was included in the protection district before Dutchess Junction was formed that City of Beacon covered and was dropped or missed when Dutchess Junction was formed. Or perhaps it is in the Dutchess Junction District just not tagged.

[EJS1810 7]

Although I know the answer but what happens when a fire dept (City of Beacon) responds to an area not in their response area (city boundaries) but the place their responding to is not with in any other fire district / protection district? An example of this is houses/structures off Mount Beacon Monument Road. These houses/structures are outside of their response area but the only access is from with in their response area (East Main St to Mountain Rd). Complicating the problem is that these structures are not in any response area as it is state land (who does not pay taxes) or some not for profit such as Scenic Hudson (who does not pay taxes).

We have done this already

[IzzyEng4 427]

Here is the way I learned it, the good old Catholic School way! LOL

In the original settlement set up way back in pre-colonial and colonial times a hamlet was a small settlement which may or may not have had church, usually a hamlet didn't. A village had a church within its boarders since it was more populated to support one. A village only needed one church to be established as a village. Remember back in those days, church and state really were not separated.

In the modern sense, as state above each state is different with their set ups. In CT hamlets and villages have no municipal government and fall under the control of the town. Some villages cross over town lines such as Georgetown, Mystic and Old Mystic. A borough has its own governing body and comprises a section of a town, in CT we have eight boroughs. A town is the largest municipal entity in CT. Now here is were it gets tricky, a city can be a section in the town like a borough (self governing) or the city can comprise the entire town such as I live. Most of the cities in CT are town / City combines with the exception of the City of Willimantic in the town of Windam and the City of Winsted in the town of Winchester. Another exception, going back to the boroughs, Naugatuck is a borough comprising of the entire town of Naugatuck. Confused yet??????

[JBJ1202 27]

Purchase is a Hamlet in the Town/Village of Harrison... Harrison became a town/village so Purchase would not be able to secede back in the day. One police department, one medical service, three fire departments... sounds about right...

[helicopper 1,050]

Purchase is a Hamlet in the Town/Village of Harrison... Harrison became a town/village so Purchase would not be able to secede back in the day. One police department, one medical service, three fire departments... sounds about right...

One DPW...

But how many school districts???

[Guest]

As per Frank Mauro at the Fiscal Policy Institute and a former professor I will tell you what I remember from school 9 years ago.

Hamlets are in Villages

Villages are in Town

City is just that a City

The main difference is that some have Mayors, some have Supervisors and a different local govt. Th difference between the 3 legally is that the amount that an individual can sue for in each Court, the City having the largest amount, I think it was something like 10 g's.

[27east 19]

All land in New York State is part of a town, city or indian reservation. Villages must be within towns, unless they are coterminus town/villages, like Harrison, Scarsdale and Mount Kisco. A village can cross town lines. A city has no relationship to the town it may be "within," with the City of Beacon as an example.

Some towns have unincorporated areas (not part of a village), for which the town would provide services. Hamlets have no legal (in NYS) stature. They are generally a post office or CDP, but really just neighborhoods. Edgemont (Greenburgh) is an example.

Pelham and Rye are two towns that do not have any unincorporated areas. Pelham and Pelham Manor are the villages in Pelham town, and Port Chester, Rye Brook and the Rye Neck section of Mamaroneck are the villages in Rye town.

Villages and cities have mayors, and towns have supervisors. There is a limit to small claims cases in town/village courts and cities. I believe its $15,000 in cities and $3,000 in towns/villages.

Edited October 15, 2008 by 23piraf

[efermann 28]

Aside from villages belong within towns, etc, I believe the way the government is organized is also different. Below is how I understand the governments to be set up.

- Towns are run by an elected (political) town supervisor and a town board made up of elected (political) representatives. The supervisor is usually a full time position. Town board, I think, is not full time.

- Villages have an elected (political) mayor and an elected (political) village board. They also have a non-political (by means of appointment) village manager. Managers, however, can change as regularly as the majority of the village board. The manager is a full time position who oversees the village departments and should serve as an intermediary between the departments and the board. The mayor and board members are part time and work with other boards (zoning, planning, etc) to establish legislation. Village managers do not play a direct roll in the legislative process.

- Hamlets, as was previously stated, belong within a town (as do villages), but do not have an established sell-contained government.

A town/village like Mt. Kisco can decide if they want to run themselves more like a town or more like a village.

No matter what, there is a tremendous duplication of some government services when villages or hamlets lie within towns.

[TR54 239]

Can "Towns" In the state of NY have there own Post Office ?. ie Mt Pleasant , G'burgh doesn't have a designated Post office , its Hawthorne ect...

[SteveOFD 176]

Can "Towns" In the state of NY have there own Post Office ?. ie Mt Pleasant , G'burgh doesn't have a designated Post office , its Hawthorne ect...

They can, if the U.S. Postal Service wants to place a branch there. The USPS being a "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States" can place branches where they want. See Wikipedia for further info. The State of NY has no say as to where they are placed.

Towns with their own P.O. in Westchester - Eastchester, North Salem, Pound Ridge, Somers, Yorktown, and Cortlandt(no P.O., but has it's own zipcode based in the Peekskill P.O.).

[Guest TCA-ALS25]

Hamlets have no legal (in NYS) stature. They are generally a post office or CDP, but really just neighborhoods. Edgemont (Greenburgh) is an example.

That sounds a lot like the "town" I live in: Lower Merion - they have hamlet-like areas such as Ardmore, Bryn Mawr, Wynnewood, Penn Wynne, etc. Each has its own post office, street numbering, fire district; but one police force and one government body - the township commission - which is like a city council, in that all members are elected.

OK,...I think I've gotten the gist of it now. Thanks!

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Up untill the early 70s the post office in PORT CHESTER was the post office for PORT CHESTER,RYE TOWN [bEFORE RYE BROOK ] and EAST PORT CHESTER CONN. , so they crossed state lines also. [post office that is!]

[10-Buff-4 0]

Villages can also cross County Lines. Example: The Village of Saranac Lake upstate, which lies in Franklin and Essex Counties in the Towns of Harrietstown, St. Armand, and North Elba.

In Connecticut, there aren't incorporated Villages... That being said, there are Incorporated Boroughs, although, not many of them, and are similar to N.Y.S.'s incorporated villages in that they are subordinate to the government of the town they are located in (Connecticut abolished county government almost 50 years ago.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_(Connecticut). If memory serves, Fenwick was home to Katharine Hepburn.

One other New England State has incorporated Villages, albeit not many of them, Vermont. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_(Vermont). Now here's something interesting: Some Villages provide Police Services to their entire town, like Waterbury, Vermont.

There are no other formally incorporated villages in New England, however, in New Hampshire, there may be "Village Districts", which are special arms of Municipal GOvernment that can provide Fire Service, Pest Control, Parks, etc.

See here: http://nhavd.org/what_are_village_districts.htm

A few other states of note with Incorporated Villages are New Jersey, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Oregon.

And thus ends my little discussion of municipal government! Nice to see a thread about all of this!

-Joe DA BUFF

[Guest]

As per Frank Mauro at the Fiscal Policy Institute and a former professor I will tell you what I remember from school 9 years ago.

Hamlets are in Villages

Villages are in Town

City is just that a City

The main difference is that some have Mayors, some have Supervisors and a different local govt. Th difference between the 3 legally is that the amount that an individual can sue for in each Court, the City having the largest amount, I think it was something like 10 g's.

I'm not sure if this is correct as Wassaic is a hamlet of Amenia but there is no village of Amenia

Edited November 13, 2008 by JHK3605

[JetPhoto 626]

There are holes in the system, I also know that when Neighborhoods cross into another Town and/or district it is up to each department to flag these with automatic Mutual Aid. I believe this is the case of Dutchess Park which crosses into the Town of Wappinger, I believe Rombout is on first Dispatch for all Full response type calls (Structure Fire, Gas Leak, etc..) since our substation is located in that neighborhood. The houses pay New Hackensack Fire Tax and are flagged as such but if you look at the map, it would take New Hackensack a long time to reach these house in comparison to Rombout.

As with Mt Beacon, looking at the NYS Real Property Tax data available at www.dutchessny.gov (Parcel mapping) in loading Town of Fishkill and looking at Parcel 133089-6054-00-622560-0000 (Full Property card) for example, it is located at 51 Mt Beacon Monument Rd and is in the Beacon City School District, but for some reason a Fire District was not tacked on. You'll also note that all property's in the City of Beacon do not have a Fire District associated with it since this is funded from the City Budget.

Now if you look at Parcel 133089-6154-00-245425-0000 (Scenic Hudson, Tax exempt) it has Rombout Fire District RF007 associated with it since the Rombout Fire District crosses some part of this parcel. Another example is 260 Bedford Ln, Fishkill, 133089-6056-04-950155-0000 It has both Glenham and Rombout listed since this parcel crosses both Fire Districts and it's state land. These are tax exempt properties but still tagged within their respective district.

So it's anyones guess to why no District is listed on the Mt Beacon properties, perhaps it was once a part of the City, maybe there was an understanding/agreement that they were covered by the City of Beacon, Was the old casino on top of Mt Beacon covered by Beacon fire? Did they have a PILOT program to aid Beacon? Would probably need to lots of research, maybe it was included in the protection district before Dutchess Junction was formed that City of Beacon covered and was dropped or missed when Dutchess Junction was formed. Or perhaps it is in the Dutchess Junction District just not tagged.

Because it is not covered under any fire district or municipal government. Several other structures are up on the mountain that are not covered a few houses and a few communications buildings. their is also no coverage for mountain rescues except for Beacon Vol. Amb. Those areas are in DEC governed areas and they do not provide fire protection to structures just the trees.

[JBJ1202 27]

One DPW...

But how many school districts???

We have the Harrison Central School District. This consists of four elementary schools, one middle school, and one high school. This joins the communities of Downtown, West Harrison, and Purchase. I am not sure when the district was established, but prior to the CSD, residents had a choice of which high school to enroll in. ETC... my mother went to Harrison, aunt went to Rye, and my uncle went to White Plains... (some Brefere family history )

one government

one police department

one medical service

one public works

one school system

THREE fire departments... hmmm

JBJ

[weaselff 6]

Correct me if Im wrong but it seems to me that living in an incorporated "village" is just a yuppie way of saying "I want all the services of living in a city but when it comes time to sell my house, I'd rather list it as located in the 'Village of Bronxville' than in the 'City of Bronxville"

There also doesn't seem to be any criteria as to what a hamlet, town, village or city actually is in NYS. I went to college in the "City of Oneonta NY" which is so small by Westchester standards it would probably be just a village or a large hamlet, but in Otsego county it is defined a a city. This is just another example of how NY and the rest of the Northeast should get on the same page as the rest of the country. You either live in an incorporated city or you live in an unincorporated township, thats it, no more confusion!

LI is evern more messed up, Whats considered a town is more like a county in the rest of the state. I currently live in the town of Islip and we have something like over 20 different hamlets, school districts and fire departments. I think the population is a couple of hundred thousand! Villages are more like cities, the village of hempstead has I think a population of roughly 75000 and is very urban

[MoFire390 118]

They can, if the U.S. Postal Service wants to place a branch there. The USPS being a "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States" can place branches where they want. See Wikipedia for further info. The State of NY has no say as to where they are placed.

Towns with their own P.O. in Westchester - Eastchester, North Salem, Pound Ridge, Somers, Yorktown, and Cortlandt(no P.O., but has it's own zipcode based in the Peekskill P.O.).

Cortlandt has several, montrose po (kings ferry road), crugers po (springvale rd), buchanan po (tate Ave), Verplanck po (6th St), Cortlandt Manor is the only one with out a post office. for their mail they get Peekskill P.O

[27east 19]

Correct me if Im wrong but it seems to me that living in an incorporated "village" is just a yuppie way of saying "I want all the services of living in a city but when it comes time to sell my house, I'd rather list it as located in the 'Village of Bronxville' than in the 'City of Bronxville"

There also doesn't seem to be any criteria as to what a hamlet, town, village or city actually is in NYS. I went to college in the "City of Oneonta NY" which is so small by Westchester standards it would probably be just a village or a large hamlet, but in Otsego county it is defined a a city. This is just another example of how NY and the rest of the Northeast should get on the same page as the rest of the country. You either live in an incorporated city or you live in an unincorporated township, thats it, no more confusion!

LI is evern more messed up, Whats considered a town is more like a county in the rest of the state. I currently live in the town of Islip and we have something like over 20 different hamlets, school districts and fire departments. I think the population is a couple of hundred thousand! Villages are more like cities, the village of hempstead has I think a population of roughly 75000 and is very urban

There are no population requirements for a town, village, city or even a county. As for criteria for what is a town, village, or city, it depends how that municiplaity was incorporated.

A hamlet is essentially just a a census designated place, again with no population size requirement.

The way the town, villages, cities and counties are supposed to be run in contained within NYS law.

[27east 19]

Aside from villages belong within towns, etc, I believe the way the government is organized is also different. Below is how I understand the governments to be set up.

- Towns are run by an elected (political) town supervisor and a town board made up of elected (political) representatives. The supervisor is usually a full time position. Town board, I think, is not full time.

- Villages have an elected (political) mayor and an elected (political) village board. They also have a non-political (by means of appointment) village manager. Managers, however, can change as regularly as the majority of the village board. The manager is a full time position who oversees the village departments and should serve as an intermediary between the departments and the board. The mayor and board members are part time and work with other boards (zoning, planning, etc) to establish legislation. Village managers do not play a direct roll in the legislative process.

- Hamlets, as was previously stated, belong within a town (as do villages), but do not have an established sell-contained government.

A town/village like Mt. Kisco can decide if they want to run themselves more like a town or more like a village.

No matter what, there is a tremendous duplication of some government services when villages or hamlets lie within towns.

Some towns have a full-time supervisor (Eastchester), while others have town administrators (Mamaroneck). Villages are generally run by village managers. Some cities have full-time mayors (White Plains), while others have city managers (New Rochelle).

[27east 19]

Up untill the early 70s the post office in PORT CHESTER was the post office for PORT CHESTER,RYE TOWN [bEFORE RYE BROOK ] and EAST PORT CHESTER CONN. , so they crossed state lines also. [post office that is!]

Before the Village of Rye Brook was incorporated, did Rye Town have its own police/fire/DPW?