Bedford Hills Fire Department wants $6.5 million expansion

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I showed this article to a friend of mine from Long Island and he said that this is something like what the VFDs on the island would do. You know the one with 3 multimillion dollar houses, 6 pumpers, 2 ladders, a heavy rescue and 10 chiefs for a 100 man department and 2 flat screens on every floor of every house.

Edited September 30, 2008 by bvfdjc316

[Goose 188]

I don't believe that VFD have the authority to levy a tax; To be more accurate i think you should substitute the word "Fire District" in place of VFD. That would make your posting more accurate and credible.

Stop talking semantics. It's principle. I never said they are levying a tax but however they get the money be it increase in fire tax (if that's what they do) or asking the town its coming from the people.

[x635 4,066]

Point is, Bedford Hills FD commisioners think that a $6.5 million dollar firehouse will fit their needs best. They are holding a series of public education events so the community can learn about the project. After that, it's up to the community to decide what they want. However, with what's going on now with the country going into depression and a majority of the BHFD rsidents depending on the stock market, they may have to sit tight for a while.

The only way to combat this is to eliminate redundant apparatus and stations and combine operations, which would save millions, but we all know that's never going to happen. Also, if KBHVAC was to house an ambulance there and/or WEMS a medic, then there would be more incentive.

It's amazing though that EMS is typically busier then fire in Westcheser, and some operate from the skelliest stations I've ever seen- if they even have one at all.

[helicopper 1,050]

One or two hundred dollars a year sounds fine to me. They are saving in other areas by being volunteers.

I'd like to see some actual proof that this is the case. If a department can't fill out the initial response, what are they actually saving the taxpayer?

[JRS2817 1]

looks nice from the drawings, but how are they going to do those two bays when there on the corner with the street there?

[gamewell45 258]

Stop talking semantics. It's principle. I never said they are levying a tax but however they get the money be it increase in fire tax (if that's what they do) or asking the town its coming from the people.

Goose, don't take it the wrong way, i'm just trying to make sense of your post; furthermore, do you mean "gouge" or "gauge" ? There's two different meanings; which one do you mean?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I showed this article to a friend of mine from Long Island and he said that this is something like what the VFDs on the island would do. You know the one with 3 multimillion dollar houses, 6 pumpers, 2 ladders, a heavy rescue and 10 chiefs for a 100 man department and 2 flat screens on every floor of every house.

Who has 10 Chiefs?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I'd like to see some actual proof that this is the case. If a department can't fill out the initial response, what are they actually saving the taxpayer?

I thought Bedford Hills was one of the more active all volunteer depts in Westchester that had a good response time, good training ect.........if so dont they deserve an upgrade? In the end it will come to the taxpayers who vote on it.

[DaRock98 76]

Bnechis is there a website or a place people can see what the ISO ratings are for an area? Sorry for the off topic question I am just curious what the ISO rating is for my area.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I thought Bedford Hills was one of the more active all volunteer depts in Westchester that had a good response time, good training ect.........if so dont they deserve an upgrade?

Just because a department is active, has good response times and good training Does NOT mean they DESERVE an upgrade. Either they needed it because the facilities are not sufficient or unsafe, or not cost effective (maybe a new facility would reduce costs on running the district, because of energy savings and current high maintenance cost), but just because a department does a good job does not mean the deserve anything except the thanks of the community and it does not need need to cost $6.5m

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bnechis is there a website or a place people can see what the ISO ratings are for an area? Sorry for the off topic question I am just curious what the ISO rating is for my area.

ISO will only tell you how many 1's 2's, 3's etc. there are in each state. They inform the chief of every dept. and the chief elected official (mayor, supervisor or chairman of the board of Fire Commissioners). It can often be obtained from a local insurance agency.

ISO makes its money by selling that info to every insurance company, so everyone tends to hold it close to the vest.

Every fire chief or chief elected official can also request a copy of their "improvement statement" which explains the score they got.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Point is, Bedford Hills FD commisioners think that a $6.5 million dollar firehouse will fit their needs best. They are holding a series of public education events so the community can learn about the project. After that, it's up to the community to decide what they want. However, with what's going on now with the country going into depression and a majority of the BHFD rsidents depending on the stock market, they may have to sit tight for a while.

The only way to combat this is to eliminate redundant apparatus and stations and combine operations, which would save millions, but we all know that's never going to happen. Also, if KBHVAC was to house an ambulance there and/or WEMS a medic, then there would be more incentive.

It's amazing though that EMS is typically busier then fire in Westcheser, and some operate from the skelliest stations I've ever seen- if they even have one at all.

Thats not a valid point about KBHVAC needing the bay, according to mark-ups of plans I have seen, KBHVAC is practically doubling its quarters. I believe I saw plans for a new bay plus more office and lounge areas as well as more parking.

I believe there was an article about it in the record review. I will try and find the information.

Edited October 1, 2008 by bvfdjc316

[Goose 188]

Gouge is what I meant, responding on my blackberry is a bit difficult.

[khas143 13]

I have got to admit I am a little annoyed by the statements by people on this board who DARE say that I can afford a tax increase of a couple hundred dollars. I am a Bedford Hills resident and I take offense to being compared to Martha Stewart and people who make millions of dollars a year (FYI... for all those that are ignorant to this part of the county as it is very confusing, Martha Stewart lives in the Town of BEDFORD but not in BEDFORD HILLS). How dare you tell me what I can and cannot afford. This would be in addition to a school budget increase of 7.x% (one that was voted down twice and we still had a 7.x % increase). How can taxpayers continue to get tax increases that are above what they are getting in pay raises? It has got to stop somewhere.

In addition, as a taxpayer of the Bedford Hills Fire District, I find it interesting that the per capita cost per resident appears comparable to that of the City of New Rochelle. Of course they have more residents to spread out the cost but why does it appear that the Town of Bedford has about 3 more rigs per capita than the City of New Rochelle and THEY HAVE TO PAY LESS in homeowners insurance than the residents of Bedford. (FYI... I was told by my insurance company when I moved in that the rating of the fire department was low and there were too many lawsuits in Bedford Hills and that is why the insurance rates are among the highest in Westchester)

I am greatful that we are serviced by volunteers but given the option of paying 6.5 mil and paying more for homeowners insurance I think that we need to revisit consilidating services and possibly even a career department for all of the Town of Bedford. I can currently hear 3 fire whistles from different firehouses from my house. I am not downplaying the VFD that covers my home but it is not acceptable to be told that we should be 6.5 mil for a new firehouse simply because having a VFD is cheaper..... GIVE ME THE NUMBERS.... PROVE IT!!!! Nobody has done that as of yet.

These are hard financial times and before we, the taxpayers (I currently pay $326 per year for my fire district coverage) agree to this, the town should look at all the options available to it and present those options to the taxpayers.

I do not believe that is asking for too much.

Edited October 1, 2008 by khas143

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Martha Stewart and Ralph Lauren live in Katonah, not Bedford Hills or Bedford Village.

Martha Stewart is the largest landholder in the Town of Bedford.

[helicopper 1,050]

I thought Bedford Hills was one of the more active all volunteer depts in Westchester that had a good response time, good training ect.........if so dont they deserve an upgrade? In the end it will come to the taxpayers who vote on it.

Just to clarify, my inquiry is not specifically about Bedford Hills. I would just like someone to substantiate the assertion that volunteer FD's "save" the taxpayers money. If someone were to conduct an across the board analysis including the insurance rates paid by residents of a volunteer district, would volunteer departments actually be cheaper? Are they more efficient?

All this rhetoric is just like campaign promises... Short on substance!!!

If a department needs a new building, fine. Just don't tell me they deserve it because they're volunteers. That's no reason to float a 6.5 million dollar bond.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Just because a department is active, has good response times and good training Does NOT mean they DESERVE an upgrade. Either they needed it because the facilities are not sufficient or unsafe, or not cost effective (maybe a new facility would reduce costs on running the district, because of energy savings and current high maintenance cost), but just because a department does a good job does not mean the deserve anything except the thanks of the community and it does not need need to cost $6.5m

Well....I guess your right but lets see what the article stated ....cramped room on the app. floor while the members are gearing up, an upgrade to a "gear" room away from the rigs, which is now required in all new Firehouses, outdated heating and electric, an upgrade with elevator and handicapped accessible bathrooms since this is a public building, all in a1959 building that has not had an upgrade ever. OK you win they dont deserve it they NEED it. Be Safe.

[DOC22 1]

Well....I guess your right but lets see what the article stated ....cramped room on the app. floor while the members are gearing up, an upgrade to a "gear" room away from the rigs, which is now required in all new Firehouses, outdated heating and electric, an upgrade with elevator and handicapped accessible bathrooms since this is a public building, all in a1959 building that has not had an upgrade ever. OK you win they dont deserve it they NEED it. Be Safe.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I have got to admit I am a little annoyed by the statements by people on this board who DARE say that I can afford a tax increase of a couple hundred dollars. I am a Bedford Hills resident and I take offense to being compared to Martha Stewart and people who make millions of dollars a year (FYI... for all those that are ignorant to this part of the county as it is very confusing, Martha Stewart lives in the Town of BEDFORD but not in BEDFORD HILLS). How dare you tell me what I can and cannot afford. This would be in addition to a school budget increase of 7.x% (one that was voted down twice and we still had a 7.x % increase). How can taxpayers continue to get tax increases that are above what they are getting in pay raises? It has got to stop somewhere.

In addition, as a taxpayer of the Bedford Hills Fire District, I find it interesting that the per capita cost per resident appears comparable to that of the City of New Rochelle. Of course they have more residents to spread out the cost but why does it appear that the Town of Bedford has about 3 more rigs per capita than the City of New Rochelle and THEY HAVE TO PAY LESS in homeowners insurance than the residents of Bedford. (FYI... I was told by my insurance company when I moved in that the rating of the fire department was low and there were too many lawsuits in Bedford Hills and that is why the insurance rates are among the highest in Westchester)

I am greatful that we are serviced by volunteers but given the option of paying 6.5 mil and paying more for homeowners insurance I think that we need to revisit consilidating services and possibly even a career department for all of the Town of Bedford. I can currently hear 3 fire whistles from different firehouses from my house. I am not downplaying the VFD that covers my home but it is not acceptable to be told that we should be 6.5 mil for a new firehouse simply because having a VFD is cheaper..... GIVE ME THE NUMBERS.... PROVE IT!!!! Nobody has done that as of yet.

These are hard financial times and before we, the taxpayers (I currently pay $326 per year for my fire district coverage) agree to this, the town should look at all the options available to it and present those options to the taxpayers.

I do not believe that is asking for too much.

How many paid f/f's would the town need if they went this route...it may be a savings in the begining, but in the end I think the cost would be more. Figure 60 f/f's and Officers, at $100,000 each thats salary and benifits, and thats on the low scale to start. Not counting overtime, pay increases you will be over the 6 mil and never looking back, the salaries will always go up. No union is going to say ok we will take less pay to help the taxpayers. The same union will be asking for firehouse upgrades as well in the future.

[khas143 13]

Well....I guess your right but lets see what the article stated ....cramped room on the app. floor while the members are gearing up, an upgrade to a "gear" room away from the rigs, which is now required in all new Firehouses, outdated heating and electric, an upgrade with elevator and handicapped accessible bathrooms since this is a public building, all in a1959 building that has not had an upgrade ever. OK you win they dont deserve it they NEED it. Be Safe.

Spin... your telling me that a "gear" room, HVAC/Electric upgrade, elevator, and handicapped accesible bathrooms will cost 6.5 mil..... Guess that's why both LI counties almost went bankrupt.. Come on bro... I'm not saying not to give these guys a break room but 6.5 mil is a big nut to ask for...

Like u said, "the NEED it"... well give them what you mentioned but how is that 6.5 mil???

Edited October 2, 2008 by khas143

[khas143 13]

How many paid f/f's would the town need if they went this route...it may be a savings in the begining, but in the end I think the cost would be more. Figure 60 f/f's and Officers, at $100,000 each thats salary and benifits, and thats on the low scale to start. Not counting overtime, pay increases you will be over the 6 mil and never looking back, the salaries will always go up. No union is going to say ok we will take less pay to help the taxpayers. The same union will be asking for firehouse upgrades as well in the future.

Again..... that's why the numbers need to be laid out... I was just going with what was compared to New Rochelle... We need to stop guessing at what the numbers would be we need bring in a consultant and find out what is in the community's best interest. (As an example... the 60 f/f's and officers was an arbitary number.... lets get a number that would be realistic)....

We as a public safety community need to take a step back and look at what is best in the long run. Sometimes, it takes an outside entity to point it out and we need to be open-minded.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Not those things alone but the addition of 2 bays for the space and all the other building codes and OSHA regulations they have to follow to build this puts it up there in cost. Hey at least the board is holding meetings for the public to see whats what. Like I said before its up to the voters of the district.

Oh and Nassau and Suffolk didnt almost go bankrupt because of the FD's. Yeah there were a few bad apples in the FD's but it was exposed and the residents are kept up to date with things better then they ever were.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Well....I guess your right but lets see what the article stated ....cramped room on the app. floor while the members are gearing up,

Most career stations are cramped for space on the apparatus floor and they are doing 1,000's of calls a year not 100's. Doing less than 1 call per day and this is a problem. Our slowest station is doing 4x that and we are not running to the tax payers to "fix" it. Because it is not really a need in the current economic times.

an upgrade to a "gear" room away from the rigs, which is now required in all new Firehouses,

What law requires that?

outdated heating and electric, an upgrade with elevator and handicapped accessible bathrooms since this is a public building

All of our fire houses are public buildings also, and none have elevators. There is no requirement to make all parts of the house open to the public. We are allowed to have "private" areas.

all in a1959 building that has not had an upgrade ever. OK you win they dont deserve it they NEED it. Be Safe.

How many fire stations in FDNY, Yonkers, New Rochelle, Eastchester, Mt Vernon, White Plains have gone 75+ years without, and under much heavier use and they don't seem to need or deserve it?

[Bnechis 3,961]

How many paid f/f's would the town need if they went this route...it may be a savings in the begining, but in the end I think the cost would be more. Figure 60 f/f's and Officers, at $100,000 each thats salary and benifits, and thats on the low scale to start. Not counting overtime, pay increases you will be over the 6 mil and never looking back, the salaries will always go up. No union is going to say ok we will take less pay to help the taxpayers. The same union will be asking for firehouse upgrades as well in the future.

Does the town even need to do this? I've said consolidate, they will save money, will need fewer rigs and this not need a big expensive station upgrade. I've also said that before someone claims the VFD is saving them money, to prove it. I do not know how many FF's BH, BV & KFD have, how active they are and can they properly staff 24/7 so the concept of hiring 60 FF's is nuts, unless they can't provide proper staffing and not one post here has suggested that.

What is the cost of fire protection?

[x635 4,066]

There is a lot more beyond the $6.5 million price tag that I will share when I get a chance.....in the meantime, don't overanylyze this project.....

[gamewell45 258]

There is a lot more beyond the $6.5 million price tag that I will share when I get a chance.....in the meantime, don't overanylyze this project.....

The long and short of it is that we can debate this subject all we want; ultimately, the taxpayers of the fire district will decide what will happen.

[helicopper 1,050]

The long and short of it is that we can debate this subject all we want; ultimately, the taxpayers of the fire district will decide what will happen.

Only if they get out and VOTE! It never ceases to amaze me that in districts with say 10,000 eligible voters, the newspaper reports on election results of 243-115. Less than 5% of the voters actually vote. Pathetic!

[gamewell45 258]

Only if they get out and VOTE! It never ceases to amaze me that in districts with say 10,000 eligible voters, the newspaper reports on election results of 243-115. Less than 5% of the voters actually vote. Pathetic!

I think its a problem common to many areas of the state and country. Unless its something citizens feel is very controversial, they tend to ignore it, but are willing to complain later when they get the tax bill.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Only if they get out and VOTE! It never ceases to amaze me that in districts with say 10,000 eligible voters, the newspaper reports on election results of 243-115. Less than 5% of the voters actually vote. Pathetic!

Chris, most fire district elections/bond referendums I've seen have less than 1%. I know a number of districts with fewer than 100 votes out of 5-10,000 voters.

In most districts if members of the FD & their families could not vote, you could count the total votes on your fingers, except when voting for a new fire house (millwood, yorktown) then the Tax payers come out in droves.

One of the recommendations on government efficency in NY was to make all elections on the same day in the same location: federal, State, local, school, fire, water, sewer, etc. at least then when you comeout to vote for that one political race you get to cover everything in one trip and the community does not have to pay for every seperate election.

[antiquefirelt 994]

One of the recommendations on government efficency in NY was to make all elections on the same day in the same location: federal, State, local, school, fire, water, sewer, etc. at least then when you comeout to vote for that one political race you get to cover everything in one trip and the community does not have to pay for every seperate election.

This is how it is in our area. You'd better have done your homework and educate the masses, because on a presidential election year, they come out of the woodwork to vote and most aren't happy with tax increases. About 3 years ago, we actually pushed our tower ladder purchase back a year due to the timing. We were asking for a $750K Bond on the same ballot that asked voters to pass a statewide tax cap based on valuation. Needless to day, we waited, the tax cap failed and 12 months later the tower bond passed. To have lost the bond issue would have made it much harder to go back the next year.

In all having all votes on the same day allows more people to vote, but may cloud the issues. Like this year, how many people are paying attention to all the others issues they'll vote on when they go to pull the stick on their choice for Prez? Off major election year issues get better press coverage. I certainly wouldn't want to be looking for large new dollars this year!!