Bedford Hills Fire Department wants $6.5 million expansion

[Guest]

Bedford Hills Fire Department wants $6.5 million expansion

By By Sean Gorman • The Journal News •

September 26, 2008

BEDFORD - Back when Thomas Dietz first joined the Bedford Hills Fire Department in 1965, the rigs were smaller and firefighters could just jump on the back of a truck on their way to a blaze.

Nowadays, regulations require volunteers to be enclosed inside a cab, meaning the firetrucks are bigger and the department is now cramped for space, said Dietz, chairman of the Bedford Hills Board of Fire Commissioners.

FULL STORY (and sketch): http://www.bedfordhillsfd.org/index.cfm?fs...amp;News_ID=157

[Goose 188]

Gotta love it. Glad im not a bedford taxpayer!!!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I do not believe that all Bedford tax payers are going to have to pay for this. Because of the arraignment of fire districts, the Bedford Hills Fire District residents would be the only ones paying for this. But this is only based on what I know because I hope that is the case.

[x635 4,066]

Bedford Hills FD's firehouse is cramped, obsolete, and unsafe. A new firehouse is long overdue. Bedford Hills FD takes a great deal of pride in their equipment and invests a lot in training, and this is not too much to ask for.

As far as the price goes, it's one station that will be housing numerous apparatus, firefighters, equipment, and offices. They are not asking to build another whole station. Considering what buildings are costing nowadays, the "aesthetic" appeal many communities now demand, and all the safety requirments that a firehouse needs, I feel the pricetag is quite fair, and will serve the Bedford Hills FD well into the future. Compared to a lot of other public projects in the area nowadays, that is a reasonable price.

As far as the taxes go, let's consider how many multi-million dollar mansions, retail, and industrial properties there are in Bedford Hills district.

[gamewell45 258]

Bedford Hills FD's firehouse is cramped, obsolete, and unsafe. A new firehouse is long overdue. Bedford Hills FD takes a great deal of pride in their equipment and invests a lot in training, and this is not too much to ask for.

As far as the price goes, it's one station that will be housing numerous apparatus, firefighters, equipment, and offices. They are not asking to build another whole station. Considering what buildings are costing nowadays, the "aesthetic" appeal many communities now demand, and all the safety requirements that a firehouse needs, I feel the price tag is quite fair, and will serve the Bedford Hills FD well into the future. Compared to a lot of other public projects in the area nowadays, that is a reasonable price.

As far as the taxes go, let's consider how many multi-million dollar mansions, retail, and industrial properties there are in Bedford Hills district.

I would concur with you; the firefighters need a place thats safe to work in; no one should expect anything less. Its a cost of doing business and hopefully the community will take that under consideration when casting their ballots for the referendum.

[Guest]

I wouldnt feel bad for many of the tax payers in Bedford. Anyone who votes down fire protection is obviously never been served by the members of it. 6.5 mil is a small price to pay for people that do it for nothing!

[texastom791 31]

It looks like it'll be a nice firehouse I hope the residents of Bedford Hills vote yes to expand. From that one pic I saw on there website it does look a little cramped getting dressed behind that big Seagrave tower.

Edited September 27, 2008 by texastom791

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bedford Hills FD's firehouse is cramped, obsolete, and unsafe. A new firehouse is long overdue. Bedford Hills FD takes a great deal of pride in their equipment and invests a lot in training, and this is not too much to ask for.

Having not been in there house in many years, I know many depts that are in worst shape. I've seen their rigs and they clearly take pride in them.

As far as the price goes, it's one station that will be housing numerous apparatus, firefighters, equipment, and offices. They are not asking to build another whole station. Considering what buildings are costing nowadays, the "aesthetic" appeal many communities now demand, and all the safety requirments that a firehouse needs, I feel the pricetag is quite fair, and will serve the Bedford Hills FD well into the future. Compared to a lot of other public projects in the area nowadays, that is a reasonable price.

$6,500,000 is a reasonable price? for who?

There budget equates to $900 per sq. ft. The current building rates (For Metro NY, from the web, for what its worth) is $300-500 per sq. ft.

Yes its one station, but if every department in Westchester were to do the same (with just one station) It would cost $377 Million. If the 3 depts in the Town of Bedford were to become one FD (as proposed by Govenor Patterson in this years state budget) would BHFD need the extra room?

Particularly since in another thread you sugest BFD also expand its facilites.

What communities are demanding is reducing the tax burdon on the #1 taxed county in the US. Nowhere in the press release did they mention "aesthetics".

As far as the taxes go, let's consider how many multi-million dollar mansions, retail, and industrial properties there are in Bedford Hills district.

According to BHFD the district is 17 sq miles with 15,000 residence

According to the last census (2000) there are 18,133 residence in the 39 sq. mile Town of Bedford.

There are 6,020 housing units within the town, with 4,800 single family homes. Bedford Hills covers approximatly 44% of the town. Assuming that they have that % of homes, they have 2,112 homes. At $6.5 mil thats an average additional cost per home of $3,078 not including interest (over the life of the bond)

While the Town of Bedford is know for those expensive homes, I was surprised at what the census figures, showed:

Amount # of Homes %

Less than $200,000 169 5%

$200,000 to $299,999 604 16%

$300,000 to $399,999 783 21%

$400,000 to $499,999 610 17%

$500,000 to $749,999 602 16%

$750,000 to $999,999 328 9%

$1,000,000 or more 590 16%

Total Single Family Homes 3,686 100%

Average Value: $498,999

Now these are figures are from the 2000 census (and there are 2 different amounts for the # of single family homes in the town) and consider that homes may have gone up 3X in value since 2000 and only 44% of these homes are in the district.

Sorry for the rant. I see lots of money being spent by lots of FD's in Westchester and everyone on this board keeps saying how great all of this is, and I wonder if its actually helping fire protection. At some point the bank will break and then what do we do.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Bnechis

[Goose 188]

It's not helping fire protection. Does 6.5 million in building materials and labor fill the cabs and gets the trucks out faster? No, absolutely not. There are departments operating under worse conditions. And not for nothing but there are many EMS agencies operating in less than efficient/stellar digs with bare bones budgets who manage to handel far more call volume just fine. So, really, what gives? It seems that many fire departments are over zealously asking for taxpayer monies and when they get them (because we all know they usually do) they spend, spend, spend.

[Tapout 42]

I WISH I could afford to be a Bedford taxpayer!!!! I would happily do my part to fund a bigger, better firehouse... because if I could afford to live in Bedford, you better get to it when it goes up in flames with 10+ shiny rigs to save my $10 million house!

Seriously, you're dealing with the Martha Stewarts and the Dave Lettermans of Westchester- if they balk at paying higher taxes they need to be beaten senseless and run out of town. IMHO, of course.

[on the job 68]

It looks like it'll be a nice firehouse I hope the residents of Bedford Hills vote yes to expand. From that one pic I saw on there website it does look a little cramped getting dressed behind that big Seagrave tower.

NOT.......... a good time to ask the taxpayers for 6.5 million with everything going on in this country right now.

[gamewell45 258]

So, really, what gives? It seems that many fire departments are over zealously asking for taxpayer monies and when they get them (because we all know they usually do) they spend, spend, spend.

What gives??? Do you expect people to work in unsafe conditions? No one should have to work under unsafe conditions whether career or volunteer especially at a fire station where you have or should have control over the conditions of the building. As far as the esthetics; thats ultimately up to the taxpayers; If they think its too expensive, they'll vote down the referendum. If you live in the district and you think its too much money to spend, then get out and campaign against it.

[x635 4,066]

You're absolutely right....$6.5 million is a lot of money....but that's the price you pay if you want to live in Westchester. If taxpayers truly cared about their fire protection, and the people managing the money did their homework, things would be a lot different. But they're not, and nothing is going to ever change, so why should Bedford Hills, one of the wealthiest communities in the nation, skimp on a building? Heck, the fire district where I used to live blew through $8 million dollars on a addition to a firehouse and renovation to another- for a department with only two engines and a truck, barebones manpower, and less then 900 calls a year. On top of that, the Town had just approved building a $30 million dollar new library.

And I'm sure if you put up a pre-fab corrugated steel building "downtown" Bedford Hills, I'm sure the residents would have something to say....

[Bnechis 3,961]

What gives??? Do you expect people to work in unsafe conditions? No one should have to work under unsafe conditions whether career or volunteer especially at a fire station where you have or should have control over the conditions of the building.

Your right no one should work in unsafe conditions. But what is considerd unsafe? Not having an elevator? Bathrooms that are not ADA complient? There only safety issue is its a little crowded.

There are lots of fire stations in Westchester that are unsafe, I can think of at least 6 that have major structural issues and need to be condemed. I know of stations with substandard electrical, plumbing, space, failing lead paint and ADA issues, plus its been discusses here about infestations of rodents and bugs in some stations.

There are lots of fire stations in Westchester that are crowded. 4 of my depts 5 stations have back to back rigs and we are doing 8,500 more runs a year than BH. We asked for $800,000 (awaiting a no answer) to add rig space for 8 rigs/trailers, but not because we felt it was a safety issue, because we have equipment parked outside.

[Bnechis 3,961]

You're absolutely right....$6.5 million is a lot of money....but that's the price you pay if you want to live in Westchester.

Thats what got us the title of highest taxed county in America. And its not right. Alot of people particularly Sr.'s who've lived here there whole lives are being chased out. They never asked for this.

If taxpayers truly cared about their fire protection, and the people managing the money did their homework, things would be a lot different. But they're not, and nothing is going to ever change, so why should Bedford Hills, one of the wealthiest communities in the nation, skimp on a building?

The taxpayers have been told that they have excellent fire protection. BHFD states that they have 100 members on there web site, so that must mean the taxpayers have great protection....right? The people managing the money are the ones who keep asking for more and bgger rigs and stations, while they have fewer ff's responding to calls.

Heck, the fire district where I used to live blew through $8 million dollars on a addition to a firehouse and renovation to another- for a department with only two engines and a truck, barebones manpower, and less then 900 calls a year. On top of that, the Town had just approved building a $30 million dollar new library.

So for $8 m they did 2 stations and they are doing 2.5 times more calls. And the tax problem in Westchester is because of just this....the FD added a bond, the Library added a bond, I bet the school district added a bond, and the sewer district, the water district and who knows what else. How many people voted for the FD Bond? how many even knew about the vote? And how many that voted for one bond (that they wanted) complained about their taxes for the other bonds.

We are borrowing from our Kids and they will never be able to pay the bill.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I will work in the station the way it is now. where's the bullet holes!

[DR104 141]

Its like this all over Westchester!!!!! Look at Ardsley, They just got a nice big new firehouse(not saying they didn't need it) and now they want a 105' dual axle truck with a pump!!!!

[junior215 0]

I hate to bring this up, but what about focusing in on consolidating districts and MAYBE provididng paid services, ESPECIALLY EMS, instead of EVERY district spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on stuff that EVERY district has and not all of them need!!!!!!!

Look at Mount Pleasant. There are 5 (Hawthorne, Valhalla, Pleasantville, Thornwood and Pocantico Hills) fire departments. There are 4 aerial/tower ladders, probably in the area of 15 engines, 5 rescues and numerous support units. You can drive from Pleasantville HQ to the Kensico Dam in about 10 minutes (no traffic) and pass, or come close to 5 fire houses. All together, there are 8 or 9 firehouses in Mount Pleasant.

The time is going to come when someone is going to put and end to situations like this. For volunteers to survive, we must be proactive and initiate a change instead of being a victim of forced change. Just look at the fate of the BIG 5 volunteers in Stamford. The city if slaying them and not too many people care. They will simply fade away.

So, before specifying $6,500,000 firehouses and $1,000,000 aerials, realize that every time an EMS call gets toned out 4-5 times and then goes to mutual aid or there are calls where you repeatedly have to re-tone for manpower, people are listening and big price tags will do nothing but amplify the history of rediculous expenditures by the volunteers of this county.

[Reliance 29]

I hate to bring this up, but what about focusing in on consolidating districts and MAYBE provididng paid services, ESPECIALLY EMS, instead of EVERY district spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on stuff that EVERY district has and not all of them need!!!!!!!

Look at Mount Pleasant. There are 5 (Hawthorne, Valhalla, Pleasantville, Thornwood and Pocantico Hills) fire departments. There are 4 aerial/tower ladders, probably in the area of 15 engines, 5 rescues and numerous support units. You can drive from Pleasantville HQ to the Kensico Dam in about 10 minutes (no traffic) and pass, or come close to 5 fire houses. All together, there are 8 or 9 firehouses in Mount Pleasant.

The time is going to come when someone is going to put and end to situations like this. For volunteers to survive, we must be proactive and initiate a change instead of being a victim of forced change. Just look at the fate of the BIG 5 volunteers in Stamford. The city if slaying them and not too many people care. They will simply fade away.

So, before specifying $6,500,000 firehouses and $1,000,000 aerials, realize that every time an EMS call gets toned out 4-5 times and then goes to mutual aid or there are calls where you repeatedly have to re-tone for manpower, people are listening and big price tags will do nothing but amplify the history of rediculous expenditures by the volunteers of this county.

http://www.piczo.com/bdvfd Here is a link to a Nova Scotia, Canada department building a new 6 bay fire hall for under 3 mil Canadian.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Look at Mount Pleasant. There are 5 (Hawthorne, Valhalla, Pleasantville, Thornwood and Pocantico Hills) fire departments. There are 4 aerial/tower ladders, probably in the area of 15 engines, 5 rescues and numerous support units. You can drive from Pleasantville HQ to the Kensico Dam in about 10 minutes (no traffic) and pass, or come close to 5 fire houses. All together, there are 8 or 9 firehouses in Mount Pleasant.

Mt Pleasant also includes Archville FD and Sleepy Hollow FD and a portion of Briarcliff Manor FD, plus the Grasslands Fire Brigade

My dept protects 73,260 in 10.4 sq miles with 5 engines, 1 tower ladder, 2 ladders & 1 DC in 5 fire stations, with an ISO rating of 2

The town of Mt. pleasant and its villages have a population of 43,221 in 27.7 square miles (with a lot of resevior and protected parkland). The 7 depts (not including BMFD or GFB) have approximatly 18 engines, 5 tower ladders, 1 ladder, 2 tankers, 3 rescues, 2 rescue/pumpers, 1 mini attack, 7 utilities and 21 chiefs, in 12 fire stations. ISO ratings range from 3 or 4 (not sure what is current in 1 dept) up to 9 (note: 10 is no fire protection).

Appears to be overkill. Even if one equalizes the sq. miles, based on NFPA & ISO standards they would need about 13 engines and 5 ladders (1 or 2 towers) and 1 rescue. thats a savings of at least 7 million in fleet replacement, plus the cost of maintaining them, insuring them and housing them. The other qustion is can the departments fill all the seats (120 if only seating 4) or even get enough drivers to get them on the road?

[TL2L31 8]

One or two hundred dollars a year sounds fine to me. They are saving in other areas by being volunteers.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Good luck, sounds like you need the upgrade.

[Bnechis 3,961]

One or two hundred dollars a year sounds fine to me. They are saving in other areas by being volunteers.

1) That $100 - $200 is in addition to what they are already costing you.

2) They have an ISO rating of 9 (in the non-hydrant portion of town) which is 70% of there district. There are VFD's with ISO 4 in non-hydrant areas.

A 9 is 10% on an open book test, a 4 is a 60%. In school you get the 1st for spelling your name, the 2nd is still an F. But if they move from a 9 to a 4 they save every property about 40% per year on their property insurance.

3) Just because they are volunteers does not mean they are saving you money.

The average property owner in my city pays $325 per yr to support a 100% career FD.

According to BMFD's 2008 Adopted Budget ($947,290), I figure the average taxpayer in there district is paying $353 per year to support a 100% VFD.

Plus we pay 56% less in fire insurance.

So if this is past they could be paying $553/yr...assuming there are no cost overruns in building this project.

While this is not a big bill, its only about 3% of there total property tax bill.

[Guest]

Not knowing your departments budget or BMFD's districts population, comparing the two doesn't seem right. The cost of running a career department is alot higher and when divided by a large taxpaying population such as New Rochelle is cost effective. However a large budget such as New Rochelle's, whatever it is, divided by the smaller population of BMFD's district would make for a much larger tax burden per taxpayer.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Not knowing your departments budget or BMFD's districts population, comparing the two doesn't seem right. The cost of running a career department is alot higher and when divided by a large taxpaying population such as New Rochelle is cost effective.

My point was:

1) that instead of placing additional burdens on the taxpayers, consolidate to get a bigger tax base and at the same time you won't need the additional space and apparatus.

2) when someone claims that VFD's cost less, so its ok to ask for extra $$$ I have to look at the per capita costs and what it shows is that the per capita costs drop with the larger populations even if they spend 10 to 30 times more (due to staff).

However a large budget such as New Rochelle's, whatever it is, divided by the smaller population of BMFD's district would make for a much larger tax burden per taxpayer.

Even if BMFD was to provide similar career service as NR, they would not need 5 stations and the manpower we have. So this number would drop 60% or more. You really cant compare the total amount paid, since it does not relect the needs for personnel and equipment/stations. But the per capita is a great way to compare the cost (but not the service level) of one department to another.

[helicopper 1,050]

You're absolutely right....$6.5 million is a lot of money....but that's the price you pay if you want to live in Westchester. If taxpayers truly cared about their fire protection, and the people managing the money did their homework, things would be a lot different. But they're not, and nothing is going to ever change, so why should Bedford Hills, one of the wealthiest communities in the nation, skimp on a building? Heck, the fire district where I used to live blew through $8 million dollars on a addition to a firehouse and renovation to another- for a department with only two engines and a truck, barebones manpower, and less then 900 calls a year. On top of that, the Town had just approved building a $30 million dollar new library.

And I'm sure if you put up a pre-fab corrugated steel building "downtown" Bedford Hills, I'm sure the residents would have something to say....

Sorry Seth, but that's BS. There is no reason to build a 6.5 million dollar BUILDING to house a handful of vehicles. Spend 3 Million on a modest building and invest the rest in training, FIREFIGHTING equipment and other necessities!

That's a HUGE bond issue and one that given our current economy is likely to face opposition even from the Martha Stewarts and Lettermans of the world. They're only a small portion of the population.

Gotta temper what would be nice with what do we need and what is responsible!!!

Don't shoot yourselves in the foot with the "we're volunteers" thing because an argument could be made that you don't need much building because nobody's housed in it!!! You have a drill night, a meeting night, and other than that, the building is largely unoccupied. For that 6.5 million is needed???

[ja3kfd 34]

On that site they have a large amount of excavating, some blasting to do, remove the house and possibly the garage is going that is there as well.

They have to make the building Handicap compliant as well,install an elevator,they probaly have to sprinkle it as well.

[gamewell45 258]

Sorry Seth, but that's BS. There is no reason to build a 6.5 million dollar BUILDING to house a handful of vehicles. Spend 3 Million on a modest building and invest the rest in training, FIREFIGHTING equipment and other necessities!

That's a HUGE bond issue and one that given our current economy is likely to face opposition even from the Martha Stewarts and Lettermans of the world. They're only a small portion of the population.

Gotta temper what would be nice with what do we need and what is responsible!!!

Don't shoot yourselves in the foot with the "we're volunteers" thing because an argument could be made that you don't need much building because nobody's housed in it!!! You have a drill night, a meeting night, and other than that, the building is largely unoccupied. For that 6.5 million is needed???

Another alternative would be to sell the existing property and building; buy a piece of level land; install some quonset huts, drill a well for water supply and let it go at that. It'd solve the problem of making it ADA compliant and keep your costs to a minimum.

I'm sure the taxpayers wouldn't object too much.

[Goose 188]

On that site they have a large amount of excavating, some blasting to do, remove the house and possibly the garage is going that is there as well.

They have to make the building Handicap compliant as well,install an elevator,they probaly have to sprinkle it as well.

Point is there are agencies which are much, much busier as well as actually HOUSE staff operating in less stellar conditions, thus the buildings take far more abuse. I'm not talking about rat or mold infested, but something far from 6.5 million. It's overzealous and simply silly. Just another example of a VFD gauging the taxpayers - just because your a volunteer doesn't mean your entitled to extravagance.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Goose

[gamewell45 258]

Just another example of a VFD gauging the taxpayers - just because your a volunteer doesn't mean your entitled to extravagance.

I don't believe that VFD have the authority to levy a tax; To be more accurate i think you should substitute the word "Fire District" in place of VFD. That would make your posting more accurate and credible.

Edited September 30, 2008 by gamewell45