Fall 2008 Career Academy

[hudson144 150]

Ok here we go again, another class getting ready to go! The fall class is soon to begin,i believe 6 oct is the start date, any idea on what depts will have new members in the class?

[FDVA356 23]

The VAFD Montrose is trying to get 1 in the class.

[FirNaTine 370]

I heard some Depts. are thinking of Training their own due to the cost factor. Any truth to that?

[firecapt32 282]

The cost has been rising but its still the best you can get period.

[johnvv 20]

Can you put a price on training that a firefighter will carry for the rest of his career? The training a new firefighter he gets at the Academy will directly affect the safety of himself, and the others he will work closely with on fire scenes. Very few career departments in Westchester Co (and I can only think of 2) have the resources to adequetely train their new firefighters. The Academy Staff has never been more prepared to handle the task. They have the personnel and resources to provide the best training available.

I'd say you can't put a price on this invaluable training. In fact I'd say its priceless. Its been proven in the past- you skimp on training in the fire service, and someone gets hurt- its that simple.

To the Chiefs- Spend the money, and think hard before considering to train your Probationary firefighters in house. Remember that your Probationary firefighters are the future of your Dept. Get their Career started on the right foot.

Just my thoughts-

Good luck and a safe and fulfilling career to the lucky Firefighters in the Fall Academy!

[LT410 5]

Mount Vernon 9 if it does not get squashed

[hudson144 150]

Is Denzel gonna pick up the tab? lol

[FirNaTine 370]

Is Denzel gonna pick up the tab? lol

I heard he's one of the 9.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Can you put a price on training that a firefighter will carry for the rest of his career? The training a new firefighter he gets at the Academy will directly affect the safety of himself, and the others he will work closely with on fire scenes.

Very true, but maybe the question should be who is responsable for paying for this training. Every dept. (career and vol) is required by law to ensure their "employees" are trained. For the volunteers, OFPC pays the majorty of the cost with the county picking up the remaining costs. This means that the taxpayers in my city pay for that. For upstate departments that send career ff's to Montor Falls for the career acadamy they are charged $500 per student, at westchester the cost is 3-5x that. That means either westchester is charging to much or that the taxpayers in my city are subsidizing the training of upstate career fire depts.

Either way, why do the taxpayers of NYC, Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mt. Vernon, White Plains, Eastchester, Fairview, Hartsdale and greenville have to pay for the training of its firefighters and subsidize the training of all other ff's in NYS?

The Academy Staff has never been more prepared to handle the task. They have the personnel and resources to provide the best training available.

Agreed, they provide 1st rate training.

I'd say you can't put a price on this invaluable training. In fact I'd say its priceless. Its been proven in the past- you skimp on training in the fire service, and someone gets hurt- its that simple.

If your saying that this training is so much better (and it is) then you are also implying that the training that everyone else is substandard, are you not?

To the Chiefs- Spend the money, and think hard before considering to train your Probationary firefighters in house. Remember that your Probationary firefighters are the future of your Dept. Get their Career started on the right foot.

While there is nothing more important than your training, the departments all have a set budget and if they have to pay higher and higher accademy costs, then they will have to cut other costs, which may affect the ability of them to deliver other training or services. If my taxpayers have to pay for this training, how come the taxpayers in other communities are given a free ride?

[Remember585 815]

Good luck to all - especially our own 655!

[Nooch7327 1]

Can you put a price on training that a firefighter will carry for the rest of his career? The training a new firefighter he gets at the Academy will directly affect the safety of himself, and the others he will work closely with on fire scenes. Very few career departments in Westchester Co (and I can only think of 2) have the resources to adequetely train their new firefighters. The Academy Staff has never been more prepared to handle the task. They have the personnel and resources to provide the best training available.

I'd say you can't put a price on this invaluable training. In fact I'd say its priceless. Its been proven in the past- you skimp on training in the fire service, and someone gets hurt- its that simple.

To the Chiefs- Spend the money, and think hard before considering to train your Probationary firefighters in house. Remember that your Probationary firefighters are the future of your Dept. Get their Career started on the right foot.

Just my thoughts-

Good luck and a safe and fulfilling career to the lucky Firefighters in the Fall Academy!

We speak of internal training and cost factors but what we really should look at is where will the best training be for the FF. There are Dept. that do internal training for what ever reason they have but it may be the best for the incoming Probies. When you go to the Career academy you are taught 15 different way to do one thing and still the 15 ways may not be the right way for your Dept. The best training may come from you own dept. They are being taught the way things are done as per their own SOPs and not how the 15 other depts do it.

I'm not saying that the training at the career academy is substandard, I feel it's probably better then most in the area. I'm just saying that what's best for your probie is the career academy so be it. If the best is internal training so be it. Why should there be a debate as to what's better and what's not.

[firecapt32 282]

Barry raises some interesting and valid points. The academy is the Westchester Career Chiefs Fire Academy ,not the State of New York fire Academy or the Westchester County Fire Academy. Any career department can choose to send their probationary firefighters to Montour Falls and only pay the cost up there, the career chiefs here in Westchester wanted something closer I guess its more expensive doing things here. No matter where they are trained they have to meet or exceed the State standard.

[FirNaTine 370]

We speak of internal training and cost factors but what we really should look at is where will the best training be for the FF. There are Dept. that do internal training for what ever reason they have but it may be the best for the incoming Probies. When you go to the Career academy you are taught 15 different way to do one thing and still the 15 ways may not be the right way for your Dept. The best training may come from you own dept. They are being taught the way things are done as per their own SOPs and not how the 15 other depts do it.

I'm not saying that the training at the career academy is substandard, I feel it's probably better then most in the area. I'm just saying that what's best for your probie is the career academy so be it. If the best is internal training so be it. Why should there be a debate as to what's better and what's not.

Your 100% correct! What are we saying here, if guys aren't taught in the Academy they aren't taught right? Just because a Probie is instructed on a topic/procedure by a CFI/SFI he's being taught correctly? NOT! I can't tell ya how many times a new recruit tell's me that he wasn't taught something or he actually was taught wrong. Like Nooch said, many Depts. in Westchester operate differently, whether it be SOP's or Strategy/Tactics. I've learned more from senior men and Officers who never set foot in the Academy, then those that are there teaching. I'm not saying the Career Academy is a waste of time, they do have some excellent Instructors, but if a Dept. can't afford it anymore and they have Experienced, Dedicated and Knowledgeable Firefighters and Officers, then why not train in-house. I've seen many an Insructor who just teaches right out of the book because they don't have the firefighting experience, as a result of working in a Dept. with a small fire load. Some of them are teaching before they've even made their first hallway. What ever fits a Dept. then so be it. I guess all those who were taught before the Academy opened its doors back in the early 80's were taught wrong. I can tell ya one thing about the Academy, from what I've seen and been told, it sure isn't the same Academy it was yrs. ago. I can't believe some of the stuff I hear Probies getting away with. They should be more like the FDNY Academy when it comes to Discipline that's for sure.

[billwiegelman 1]

Is Denzel gonna pick up the tab? lol

No, its not as important as school sports. How come you dont see anyone raising money for the school EDUCATION programs that got cut or any jobs that were cut

[firecapt32 282]

When a probationary firefighter is being taught at any academy or any in house classes by any SFI/CFI or MFI they must be taught to the fire service industry standard.

I also believe that any program taught whether its in house or at a academy- the courses must meet or exceed the Fire Service standard, and the instructors must also meet that standard. There is a place in the academy for local sop's and sog's.

The academy's makes a well rounded firefighter not a seasoned veteran , it gives the firefighter a little of everything from pumps to ladder work to rescue tech to haz mat and much much more.

Whether you go to Montour Falls, Westchester Career or in house for your training the probationary firefighter must receive a minimum of 229 hours of diverse training.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry raises some interesting and valid points. The academy is the Westchester Career Chiefs Fire Academy ,not the State of New York fire Academy or the Westchester County Fire Academy.

My understanding is the career chiefs no longer have "ownership" of the academy

Any career department can choose to send their probationary firefighters to Montour Falls and only pay the cost up there, the career chiefs here in Westchester wanted something closer I guess its more expensive doing things here.

While any dept. can send them to MF. My understanding is when Westchester proposed that they no loger hold the academy in Westchester, the State said they could not accomadate Westchester, because they were full.

[FirNaTine 370]

The academy's makes a well rounded firefighter not a seasoned veteran , it gives the firefighter a little of everything from pumps to ladder work to rescue tech to haz mat and much much more.

Your right Capt., it does give the Probie a little of everything, but so does in-house. As far as the Academy making well rounded ffs., sorry, but that at times remains questionable. Another advantage of in-house, especially with a large class, is the fact that you now have many more hands around to not only pick up a mop(s) and help out with Commitee Work and Station Details, but also the mile long hose stretches at a Job.

Edited September 24, 2008 by FirNaTine

[Guest]

I can tell ya one thing about the Academy, from what I've seen and been told, it sure isn't the same Academy it was yrs. ago. I can't believe some of the stuff I hear Probies getting away with. They should be more like the FDNY Academy when it comes to Discipline that's for sure.

FirNaTine- It looks like you need a new pair of glasses and hearing aid. The spring academy was one of the best run academys ive seen in my six years as a CFI; Organized, disciplined, respectful and full of knowledge. No doubt a direct result of the director, co-directors and instructors. I went through the Montour Falls Academy 12 years ago and while very good, it doesn't compare to Westchester. The last time I checked there are always different ways to accomplish any given task(forcible entry, ventilation) you name it. Why wouldn't you want your firefighters to learn how to accomplish tasks multiple correct ways.

[FirNaTine 370]

I can tell ya one thing about the Academy, from what I've seen and been told, it sure isn't the same Academy it was yrs. ago. I can't believe some of the stuff I hear Probies getting away with. They should be more like the FDNY Academy when it comes to Discipline that's for sure.

FirNaTine- It looks like you need a new pair of glasses and hearing aid. The spring academy was one of the best run academys ive seen in my six years as a CFI; Organized, disciplined, respectful and full of knowledge. No doubt a direct result of the director, co-directors and instructors. I went through the Montour Falls Academy 12 years ago and while very good, it doesn't compare to Westchester. The last time I checked there are always different ways to accomplish any given task(forcible entry, ventilation) you name it. Why wouldn't you want your firefighters to learn how to accomplish tasks multiple correct ways.

And I went thru the Westchester Academy 25yrs. ago and can tell ya things have definitely changed. Some good and some not so good and this isn't just my opinion but many of my senior collegues and Officers who were there during its early yrs. I guess it all depends on the Directors and Instructors at the time. Some Classes are good and some not so good. I can tell ya one thing, not too long ago they were calling that Academy "Club Med" because it was so laid back and that was coming from many of the recruits themselves. Not to mention it showed when they hit the streets. Nothing like new recruits telling ya their first day on the Job that the Academy was a joke, especially those who left to join FDNY. As far as ffs. knowing multiple correct ways of how to accomplish a task, your absolutely correct but the key word in your statement is "correct".

Edited September 24, 2008 by FirNaTine

[Bnechis 3,961]

And I went thru the Westchester Academy 25yrs. ago

Wasn't the 1st class in 1986?

[LTNRFD 266]

Wasn't the 1st class in 1986?

Spring on 1986 was the first class. Started the first week in March and went till the third week in May.

[x635 4,066]

The problem is, that the Academy is a melting pot, with recruits from various departments, all with departments that have different ways of doing things. With such an atmosphere, the instructors do the best they can to give the recruits a solid foundation on which to build from, which has been mentioned previously in this thread.

The FDNY academy is different because they are training them to be FDNY firefighters from the ground up.

[Guest]

Wasn't the 1st class in 1986?

I thought so too Barry, wow, has it been 25 years already? I must be getting old.

[LTNRFD 266]

I thought so too Barry, wow, has it been 25 years already? I must be getting old.

It's been 22 years since the first class in 1986. Do the math.

[firecapt32 282]

The Westchester Career Chiefs do run the Academy, it is with their approval that a Director is made. The OFPC issues the certificates of completion of any State Courses that are conducted during the training period ie FF1 FF2 pumps ect. The State also issues a certificate for the completion of the 229 training hours. The County provides the facility and any thing else that the academy may want ie helping to arrange apparatus or additional training instructors.

[hudson144 150]

First day at the academy-good luck to all!

[FirNaTine 370]

This should be interesting.