2008 Election

[ny10570 745]

Since we've had some pretty good political discussion going on recently I figured this would be a good place to put up some legit facts about the candidates and their plans for the country. This isn't about their social life, religious affiliation, or party BS. Just their actual plans for the next 4 years. Please try and keep this info coming from independent sources and not just links to their campaign website.

Science Debate 2008 posed 14 questions to Obama and McCain concerning science, technology and the environment. The candidates full answers are available at the link above. I've added a few highlights from the site.

Climate Change and Energy

Obama - Greenhouse gas emissions reduced to 80% below 1990 levels by 2050 through innovation incentives and cap and trade pollution control programs. He also wants to export green technology to developing countries to make it easier for developing countries to combat climate change. $150 Billion over 10 years for clean energy. Toughening building efficiency by 50% over 10 years and fuel efficiency 4% a year. 25% of electricity to come from renewable resources by 2025.

McCain - Emissions cut to 2005 levels by 2012, 1990 levels by 2020 and 60% below 1990 levels by 2050. Incentives for business to change rather than penalties for not complying. 2 billion a year for 15 years to develop clean coal. $5,000 tax credit for every individual who buys a zero emissions vehicle. $300 million prize for "the development of a battery package that has the size, capacity, cost and power to leapfrog the commercially available plug-in hybrids or electric cars". 45 new nuclear reactors by 2030.

Education

Obama - Improvements through better training and pay for teachers. Improved preschool access and greater access to affordable higher education.

McCain - Added focus on retraining displaced workers. Incentive money to high performing teachers and schools.

Deffense

Obama - Increased focus on technology and science. Double the funding for DoD research, renewing DARPA, and using this increased focus on research to decrease the cost of procurement. Improve our defense against cyber and bio attacks. Improve domestic production capacity.

McCain - Increased research funding and expand the military to "ensure that the nation is capable of protecting the homeland, deterring potential military challenges, responding to any crisis that endangers American security, and prevailing in any conflict we are forced to fight."

Genetic Research and Stem Cells

Obama and McCain - Ensure the privacy of the individual from discrimination and maintain funding and strict oversight. Repeal the the stem cell research funding ban while continuing to investigate other sources of stem cells. Current standards that prohibit the growth of a fetus for tissue are to be maintained.

There is more and much more detail and rhetoric in the candidates actual answers. this is just a quick summary to give you an idea where each politician is coming from.

[Stepjam 118]

Policy aside, how about some meat and potatoes on the candidates? In other words.....what are they, really?

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH OR BELIEVE THE RHETORIC OF A VERY GIFTED SPEAKER? BE AN INTELLIGENT VOTER!

Please, please read.

Obama's 'Not Exactlys'!

READ AND THEN FORWARD TO EVERY ONE ON YOUR MAILING LIST. IT WILL OPEN A LOT OF EYES. OR AT LEAST IT SHOULD.

Obama's 'Not Exactlys':

1.) Selma Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965. (Google 'Obama Selma' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various

untruths.)

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya . It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Oba ma, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for verification of that....and for more.

Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia Muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get. No one wants to know the truth.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5 AM , according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama. Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya , his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to.....

http://www.arcadeathome.com/newsboy.phtml?...y6.2525_African

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in Islam's' http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId`559

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book). February 28, 2008 . Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.'

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia , I Have More Foreign Experience - NOT EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons?

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT EXACTLY, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

13.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT EXACTLY, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - NOT EXACTLY, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - NOT EXACTLY, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate - NOT EXACTLY, they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - NOT EXACTLY, only when caught by church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT EXACTLY, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT EXACTLY, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens . You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA - NOT EXACTLY, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction off Israel .

30.) I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY, you said let the delegates decide.

31.) I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

32.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY, you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.) I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY, you take loads of it.

35.) I don't Have Lobbyists - NOT EXACTLY, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

36.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - NOT EXACTLY, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

37.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

38.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - NOT EXACTLY, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.

Subject: Bill Brown's Commentary on Obama

____________________________________________________________________

Commentary by Bill Brown

The Obama Tidal Wave

We are witnessing a political phenomenon with Barack Obama of rare magnitude. His speeches have inspired millions, and yet most of his followers have no idea what he stands for except platitudes of 'Change' or that he says he will be a 'Uniter'. The power of speech from a charismatic person truly can be a powerful thing. Certainly Billy Graham has charisma, and both his manner of speech, and particularly the content, changed millions. On the extreme other hand, the charisma of Adolph Hitler inspired millions and the results were catastrophic. Barack Obama certainly is no Hitler or a Billy Graham, but for many Americans out there feeling just like a surfer who might be ecstatic and euphoric while riding a tidal wave, the real story is what happens when it hits shore.

Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

- He voted against banning 'partial birth' abortion.

- He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.

- Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government.

- In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing.

- Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as a minimum wage affair.

- Has admitted marijuana and cocaine use in high school and in college.

- His religious convictions are very murky.

- He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

- Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with all Muslim nations.

- Opposed the Patriot Act.

- First bill he signed that was passed was 'campaign finance reform'.

- Voted No on prohibiting law suits against gun manufacturers.

- Supports universal health-care.

- Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.

- Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

- Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

- Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.

- Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.

- Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.

- Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes.

- Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

- Opposed to any efforts to privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid.

- He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax

- He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax

- He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax.

- Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded.

- He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in the Senate today, and that takes some doing.

If your political choices are consistent with Barack Obama's, and you think that his positions will bring America together or make it a better place, then you will probably enjoy the ride and not forward this E-mail.

If you are like most Americans, after examining what he stands for and are truly not in line with his record, it would be prudent to get off the wave, or better yet, never get on, before it comes on shore and undermines the very foundations of this great Country. We have limited time to save America or the Supreme Court as we know it.

Inaction is action. If you agree this is important, pass it on. The mainstream media will not do it for you!

Bill Brown

Edited September 19, 2008 by Stepjam

[FFPCogs 863]

All very interesting, and eye opening. Although some "facts" may be somewhat skewed as with any political message, the core of the man is right on the money. One thing I do find troubling is the references to Obama's faith..as a conservative, hawkish and patriotic American I don't give a rats a** what someone's religion is so long as they can do the job. Being a Moslem is not in and of itself a bad thing, nor is it a incompatable with being President. Even wanting to "talk" with Moslem states and anti-American leaders is OK..under the right conditions (from a position of strength, not weakness).

As American's any religious (or any type of) persecution or predjudice should not be a part of our decision making or be tolerated. Basing our views on those factors makes us no better than Nazis. Remember your history..we have fought against regimes dominated by this type of thinking for the last century. Thinking like this or using religion (or race) as a scare tactic, does a great disservice to and shows the utmost contempt for those Americans who have sacrificed their lives for freedom. There is no need to bring Obama's past, present or future religious convictions into this..his liberal policies and track record speak for themselves if voters would just "listen".

I've posted many a diatribe on these threads regarding the upcoming election so I will not repeat them here (yeah I know...thank God), other than to say Barak Obama is the wrong man at the wrong time for our country. It may well turn out that he will make a great President, and I might even vote for him.......just not in 2008.

Unfortunately due to the recent economic troubles wiping out any surge McCain may have enjoyed I don't think it would have really mattered who the Democratic candidate is...the White House will go to the Dems.

Cogs

Edited September 19, 2008 by FFPCogs

[INIT915 1,119]

Policy aside, how about some meat and potatoes on the candidates? In other words.....what are they, really?

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH OR BELIEVE THE RHETORIC OF A VERY GIFTED SPEAKER? BE AN INTELLIGENT VOTER!

Please, please read.

Obama's 'Not Exactlys'!

READ AND THEN FORWARD TO EVERY ONE ON YOUR MAILING LIST. IT WILL OPEN A LOT OF EYES. OR AT LEAST IT SHOULD.

**Mod Note: List Deleted, as takes up too much viewing space. Read above for full list**

Please don't provide these "lists" unless you also intend to provide citations. Many of your "points" have long been disproven by credible agencies.

Haven't we previously discussed where our country is headed when voters are making their "informed" decisions based on random emails???

If you are going to choose to provide this list concerning one candidate, please provide the random emails for both candidates. I mean if this is truly how we are making our decisons, let's exponentially increase the absurdity!

What a sad commentary...

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Please don't provide these "lists" unless you also intend to provide citations. Many of your "points" have long been disproven by credible agencies.

Haven't we previously discussed where our country is headed when voters are making their "informed" decisions based on random emails???

If you are going to choose to provide this list concerning one candidate, please provide the random emails for both candidates. I mean if this is truly how we are making our decisons, let's exponentially increase the absurdity!

What a sad commentary...

Great Post....

[gamewell45 258]

Policy aside, how about some meat and potatoes on the candidates? In other words.....what are they, really?

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH OR BELIEVE THE RHETORIC OF A VERY GIFTED SPEAKER? BE AN INTELLIGENT VOTER!

Please, please read.

**Mod Note: List Deleted, as it takes up too much viewing. If you want to read the full quote, scroll up**

Thats alot of information to digest. Whats your source for each one??? Unless I missed the source, how do we know that what your telling us is accurate.

[JCESU 20]

Thanks for posting-just some-of the facts people don't want to accept about this POS. The points that concerned me...I had no problem being able to confirm them. Equally as important...if someone feel's they are inaccurate then post a rebuttle and disprove it.

[gamewell45 258]

Thanks for posting-just some-of the facts people don't want to accept about this POS. The points that concerned me...I had no problem being able to confirm them. Equally as important...if someone feel's they are inaccurate then post a rebuttle and disprove it.

Sorry JCESU, I don't buy into your position; if anyone is going to deluge people with so-called facts of that magnitude, they need to give sources. I don't trust anything that anyone tells me from either side unless they give credible sources.

[INIT915 1,119]

Thanks for posting-just some-of the facts people don't want to accept about this POS. The points that concerned me...I had no problem being able to confirm them. Equally as important...if someone feel's they are inaccurate then post a rebuttle and disprove it.

That's not how it works. You make claims - you back them up.

[ny10570 745]

wow, second post and the whole intent of the thread is shot to poop. Since people are going to post baseless lies I'll dispel some of them...

1. read the whole speech. Its nit picking a statement pulled from a speech intent on conveying emotion and gratitude for the sacrifices of the selma marchers. He was trying to connect himself to moment, if that is enough to not vote for him then please don't vote at all.

2. In "dreams of my father" Obama explains that his father grew up tending to his fathers goats while attending school. he later received a scholarship allowing him to study in Nairobi and eventually the US leading to his work in the Kenyan gov't.

3. When did he ever claim his father was a proud freedom fighter.

4. Odinga while claiming to be Obama's cousin has no evidence of any familial ties.

5. Maternal grandmother Christian, paternal grandmother Muslim.

6. Many Swahili words are Arabic in origin, kind of like those fancy numbers we use.

7. Just read this link http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

8. again http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp Obama went to multiple schools.

9. No evidence that he ever claimed to be fluent. One times article notes that he speaks passable Bahasa.

10 & 11. Bush claimed his experience was from his father being a diplomat. But true, a few years as a child living somewhere is not enough.

Its 7:30 my tour is about to end so I'm ending this here. snopes.com has details on the entire post http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp . Please stop posting baseless BS. You want to believe in ignorant rhetoric that is by all means yours to do as you like. Just stop spreading this garbage as absolute fact.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

While I do not plan to NOT vote, it surely has a point, right?

[ny10570 745]

New England Journal of Medicine asked each candidate for their plans for Health Care and then got a response from someone of the opposite political ideology.

http://content.nejm.org/misc/election2008.shtml