FASNY Health Insurance Bill

[Guest]

I was reading in the "Firefighter" about how this bill has been passed yet is extremely vague. What does everyone think about it? Is it implemented anywhere in our area yet? I think this will be an amazing recruitment and retention tool.

[ja3kfd 34]

Are you talking about the Volunteer's being able to purchase the same Health Care as all Town Employees in that District?

I mean that each individual has to pay out of their own pocket, not the Department or District?

If that is what you are talking about I feel it is a great idea with the cost of Insurance, the Town is able to get a better package than an individual .

I see it with my 19 year old that has not made up her mind and is buying her own package.

I for one am thankful I work for a town that has a good package and am even more thankful I do not have to pay for it.

[ex-commish 490]

I was reading in the "Firefighter" about how this bill has been passed yet is extremely vague. What does everyone think about it? Is it implemented anywhere in our area yet? I think this will be an amazing recruitment and retention tool.

I think it is a good idea. It doesn't put any burden on the taxpayers.

[shadow12083 17]

I like it as a possible future option, at the moment I have benefits with my day job, but with this economy who knows what will happen in the future. I wish there were some more specific details like what the actual cost will be and how does one apply for it.

[gamewell45 258]

I think its great, especially since it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything; As I understand it, you would pay the same price for the insurance policy as your municipality pays for its employees. so if their employees pay $250 per month, thats what it would cost you to maintain coverage for yourself. Most standard medical insurance policies cost on average between $900 - $1,200 depending on coverage per month. So there is a significant difference in cost level.

[firefighter36 52]

Not a bad idea, and with more people enrolled, the cost per person to the municipality may even be reduced. I could imagine needed to set up some pretty stringent ground rules for making this available, (i.e. annual attendance, years of membership, etc.)

[Beekman 5]

It would have made sense to allow firefighters to get health insurance through the State instead.

My District doesn't have a health plan as it doesn't have any full time employees. The Town would need to handle it and Town employees, where I live, pay a significant contribution and the Town matches it. I can't see the Town paying for volunteers to have insurance through them.

There will also be issues with who is eligible. Health insurance is very expensive and I don't need anyone joining the FD just so they can get cheap health insurance and become a leech.

[E58RET 24]

The point made by Beekman is valid,how many joined thier FD's to take advantage of property tax relief?

[ajsbear 11]

The point made by Beekman is valid,how many joined thier FD's to take advantage of property tax relief?

You're quite right. None of us joined for the property tax releaf, the 14.5 cents per mile the gov't allows etc but I'll tell you what, if the gov't wants to give a little anyone would be nuts not to take it. If they said "he's $100 just because wouldn't you take it? Thats milk and diapers for my 2 year old for the week.

With prices going up on everything,my pay isn't keeping up I for one will take what I can get.

[EJS1810 7]

It would have made sense to allow firefighters to get health insurance through the State instead.

My District doesn't have a health plan as it doesn't have any full time employees. The Town would need to handle it and Town employees, where I live, pay a significant contribution and the Town matches it. I can't see the Town paying for volunteers to have insurance through them.

There will also be issues with who is eligible. Health insurance is very expensive and I don't need anyone joining the FD just so they can get cheap health insurance and become a leech.

The bill, as I understand it, dosen't have the town paying for the insurance for the volunteers. An individual VFF can "purchase" the same insurance the town provides it's employees but the VFF foots the bill. So if it costs the "Town of Podunk" $X,XXX.YY from Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield for each town employees health insurance, "Podunk" FF Joe Smith can pay for the same plan at the same price to cover themselfves.

After a discussion on the way to a golf outing today, I have to look further into this new legislation

[Guest]

The point made by Beekman is valid,how many joined thier FD's to take advantage of property tax relief?

Bro, are you kidding me? Go check the tax receiver and see how much of a tax relief you get, its like 80 bucks! Some huge savings there. Some guys use that in gas responding in a month alone!

[Beekman 5]

Forget the tax relief. How many Departments had voters approve LOSAP and then you had a bunch of members come back to get their "free money" (I do one year and get credit for 6) and contribute nothing to the FD but just whine "where's the sheet?"

[Guest FFNick]

Forget the tax relief. How many Departments had voters approve LOSAP and then you had a bunch of members come back to get their "free money" (I do one year and get credit for 6) and contribute nothing to the FD but just whine "where's the sheet?"

So for that 65 year old member that dedicated the majority of his adult life to the department and community, you were not willing to look beyond the "inconvenience" of "Hey - where's the sheet?" for a year? I know that where I was, we were glad to see the old guys come back. They may not have offered much in physical labor help for that year, but their sense of history and tradition helped a lot of the new guys realise what they got into, and how the department got to where it is.

[gamewell45 258]

So for that 65 year old member that dedicated the majority of his adult life to the department and community, you were not willing to look beyond the "inconvenience" of "Hey - where's the sheet?" for a year? I know that where I was, we were glad to see the old guys come back. They may not have offered much in physical labor help for that year, but their sense of history and tradition helped a lot of the new guys realise what they got into, and how the department got to where it is.

You make an interesting anology and i can see the rationale in it. Its a nice gesture from the department.

[Bnechis 3,961]

So for that 65 year old member that dedicated the majority of his adult life to the department and community, you were not willing to look beyond the "inconvenience" of "Hey - where's the sheet?" for a year? I know that where I was, we were glad to see the old guys come back. They may not have offered much in physical labor help for that year, but their sense of history and tradition helped a lot of the new guys realise what they got into, and how the department got to where it is.

This is a very nice gesture, but how was the program sold to the taxpayers? If it as a gesture to their long committment thats fine, but I've seen FD's sell this only on the concept that if we dont retain and recruit it will cost you millions to go paid.

[ex-commish 490]

Forget the tax relief. How many Departments had voters approve LOSAP and then you had a bunch of members come back to get their "free money" (I do one year and get credit for 6) and contribute nothing to the FD but just whine "where's the sheet?"

My bigger problem is with the "sponges" who are young and do nothing but whine and cry and spend more time watching what everyone else does.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

So for that 65 year old member that dedicated the majority of his adult life to the department and community, you were not willing to look beyond the "inconvenience" of "Hey - where's the sheet?" for a year? I know that where I was, we were glad to see the old guys come back. They may not have offered much in physical labor help for that year, but their sense of history and tradition helped a lot of the new guys realise what they got into, and how the department got to where it is.

So after the new guys realized what they got into and how the department got to where it is did they smack them? And how much did the new guys realize what they got into when then the "old guys" came back with their sense of history and tradition and quick worry of where the "sheet" was. Did they learn alot then too or just to find out where the sheet is and as HFD said duck around work. I'm all for the understanding of a guy paying his dues...but it goes on much further then just the one year...or a person of any age who didn't do crap for whatever time he was there, never trained or went to training, never so much as put on a 3/4 boot lone less actively engagned in incidents, comes in and gets credit for 5 years with 1 and keeps on rolling....running their mouths and getting in the way to boot. But meanwhile...how many quality members have rolled through the door with decent retention rates in response to most LOSAP programs that as Barry pointed out was sold to taxpayers as a needed tool to get and retain members?

I'm still a little lost here as well. So if a health company charges $2000 for its plan and municpality X pays $1200 for their employees for health care and the employee pays $800 into the same health care, then where does the $800 the regular employee pays come from in regard to a volunteer firefighter who can get into the plan under the law? Or do they pay $2000? If that's not the case I have to say that's BS. Why doesn't the state waive all workers share then?

[ja3kfd 34]

You would have to pay the whole amount due if it cost 1,300.00 a month for coverage you would have to pay the whole amount.

As ALS said if his cost 2000. 00 a month than that is what it would cost you. The Town is not paying any of it for you you need to pay them and they pass it along to there provider.

[Guest FFNick]

You guys can rant about the LOSAP all you like, and take your slant on what my statement was as well. I took exception to what I interpreted as a slight to older members of a department that worked very hard for a long time. Like it or not, they were entitled to get "back time", that was how the legislation was written, for better or worse. So yeah, for a year I think it was ok for OLD guys to show up. If able bodied personnel were/are allowed to skate - that is unacceptable. If you guys see a problem with that, open your mouths when it happens. ALS you do not know what particular department I was speaking of, so for you to jump to conclusions as to what happened and how people reacted is baseless and unfair, there was no need to "smack" anyone. I do not like the program either, but it is legislation shoved down our throats, and now we're stuck with it. Beaters will be beaters. I have them on my job, they are in the volunteer ranks as well. I agree with what HFD stated. I am no fan of FASNY or what they stand for, not 20 years ago, and still not now.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

ALS you do not know what particular department I was speaking of, so for you to jump to conclusions as to what happened and how people reacted is baseless and unfair, there was no need to "smack" anyone. I do not like the program either, but it is legislation shoved down our throats, and now we're stuck with it. Beaters will be beaters.

Brother you need to take a deep breath...I was making a general statement which those that know me well know that I wasn't speaking of any one department in general. Secondly..I'm far from being a beater. I like to find solutions then just say that they don't exist. Next time I'll remember to put the "lol" at the end as I normally do. All I know is that in the 3+ agencies I've been a member of....as someone once put it so well...same street...different scenary...same potholes.

[Guest FFNick]

Brother you need to take a deep breath...I was making a general statement which those that know me well know that I wasn't speaking of any one department in general. Secondly..I'm far from being a beater. I like to find solutions then just say that they don't exist. Next time I'll remember to put the "lol" at the end as I normally do. All I know is that in the 3+ agencies I've been a member of....as someone once put it so well...same street...different scenary...same potholes.

I guess we can breathe deep together.

At nowhere in my post did I call or allude to you being a beater.

[Guest Mfd]

If able bodied personnel were/are allowed to skate - that is unacceptable. If you guys see a problem with that, open your mouths when it happens. Beaters will be beaters. I have them on my job, they are in the volunteer ranks as well.

Who are you supposed to open you're mouth to? If this is going on and his been documented, brought to the attention of the company board, district board the state attorney general and state comptroller and no one does anything who ya gonna call ghostbusters???

We have this situation in our department, there are a few knife and forkers that for whatever reason do not pull their weight, they don't respond, or are always there after the truck leaves, don't drive, don't help with training, don't step up for cleanup or company events, or are always late, you would figure with all that there is to do they would man up in one way or another, there is always a way to contribute you're fair/ equal share regardless of you're age, situation or physical condition.

If anyone could indicate some direction or provide some insight perhaps through their experiences or knowledge it would be greatly appreciated.

[gamewell45 258]

If anyone could indicate some direction or provide some insight perhaps through their experiences or knowledge it would be greatly appreciated.

It all comes down to properly managing the firefighters (whether career or volunteer) and by this I mean the line officers and/or chief keeping tabs on them. As in any business or organization, you'll have self-starters and slackers; Its human nature and the managers (line officers and/or chief) need to constantly keep tabs on them and monitor who is doing what and who isn't. Supervisory direction should be given to those in need of it and if necessary, one-on-one discussion of productivity deficiencies should likewise be addressed.

In most private sector businesses, those employees who don't show promise or growth potential are generally shown the door if work ethic doesn't improve after counseling. The Public Sector is primarily the same (except those with union contracts which are subject to negotiated discharge language) with minor differences based on civil service law.

The officer knowing what his/her employees/volunteers are doing, where they are and what they should be doing will have alot more success in managing the fire department and fewer headaches. Those officers who don't feel that they "don't want to baby sit" employees/volunteers should not be in the ranks of the officers. While technical and practical knowlege is important for fire officers, properly managing your employees/volunteers is equally important.

[Bnechis 3,961]

It all comes down to properly managing the firefighters (whether career or volunteer) and by this I mean the line officers and/or chief keeping tabs on them. As in any business or organization, you'll have self-starters and slackers; Its human nature and the managers (line officers and/or chief) need to constantly keep tabs on them and monitor who is doing what and who isn't. Supervisory direction should be given to those in need of it and if necessary, one-on-one discussion of productivity deficiencies should likewise be addressed.

The problem is too many "managers" do not have the ability or desire to do it. They just want the car and the scrambled eggs on the hat.

In most private sector businesses, those employees who don't show promise or growth potential are generally shown the door if work ethic doesn't improve after counseling. The Public Sector is primarily the same (except those with union contracts which are subject to negotiated discharge language) with minor differences based on civil service law.

The public sector is divided. Career personnel do have protection from improper discharge, but they can still be fired or encouraged to leave. How many VFD's show people the door? Much of this thread has mentioned the slakers coming for the credit and clearly, the depts allow this. They can easily be addressed but it appears that no one is willing to do it. Maybe because in private sector and in career service you dont get to run the show, because this year its my turn.

The officer knowing what his/her employees/volunteers are doing, where they are and what they should be doing will have alot more success in managing the fire department and fewer headaches. Those officers who don't feel that they "don't want to baby sit" employees/volunteers should not be in the ranks of the officers. While technical and practical knowlege is important for fire officers, properly managing your employees/volunteers is equally important.

Very true. Now how many volunteer depts. or even small career/combo depts do this?

[Guest]

What the heck are you guys talking about? The original question is about the insurance bill and now the 4 guys are complaining to each other about dead weight at the firehouse. My posts get deleted by some of you for being funny and tactless, these posts do nothing to contribute to the topic and are still here. What kind of politics does this place run on?

[gamewell45 258]

What the heck are you guys talking about? The original question is about the insurance bill and now the 4 guys are complaining to each other about dead weight at the firehouse. My posts get deleted by some of you for being funny and tactless, these posts do nothing to contribute to the topic and are still here. What kind of politics does this place run on?

Okay, roof, how about this:

The Babylon the Babylon Town Board has unanimously approved a measure allowing the town's 800 volunteers to buy into its health insurance plan starting next year. This makes them the first in the state to offer the program which was recently passed by the NYS legislature.

I don't have the link, but I did read it in Newsday.

[Guest]

Thats excellent. Luckily I am sure most of the 800 volunteers in the Town of Babylon have jobs as you can not live for free in Long Island! I think this bill is most important in the more rural county's that do not have the jobs like we do in the Southern parts of the State. This is going to be an amazing thing for the guys who have their own business' and a family.