Vessel in Distress

[khas143 13]

Note the comments made after the article by posters. Does anybody have any additional information on this?

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808270346

[JBE 328]

Them's fightin words. Wonder why people can't play nice. It's a big enough river.

[JetPhoto 626]

Which is worse the problem with a PD unit not working well with others OR a newspaper that appears to be one sided and appear to be one sided to the pd units?

Words from Chris Rock "Can't we all just get along?"

[irishfire2491 24]

I was not on the Call (Because the last time I was on the FD boat driving it did not turn out to well right Munson lol) but what I have heard from the crew members on the boat was that Rockland County PD Was just shouting orders like he was in charge and was very Rude after all the people were already removed from the boat by another boater. He Demanded the FD boat to tow the boat as it was sinking closer to shore. My Question is Who has Command and Who makes Decison on the Water. If all Victim are removed and there are no Criminal aspect like BWI (Boating while Intox. Does the FD have Command because it still falls under a RESCUE??? I read the First ARTICAL were the paper did not meation anything about the FD becasue RCPD told the paper the story and left out several thing like that the FD was even there and the PD did everything which they pretty much did not thing!

[miami222 62]

I was on the call. The 3 fire units operating were CVFD, VPFD, and Stony Point FD. We had then people off the boat and were using portable pumps to keep the boat afloat until Sea Tow could get on scene and tow to boat away. The Rockland Sheriff was staying out of the way and just sitting there doing what i assume to be nothing. Then All of a sudden he started demanding that the boat owner be switched to his boat and that he was in charge (Call was on Westchester side of the river) and ordering the fireboats off scene. The CVFD Deputy chief that was handling operations argued with him until he was threatened with arrest. I pulled the CFVD marine unit off the scene after that to avoid the situation from escalating further.

[RNMedic08 0]

Which is worse the problem with a PD unit not working well with others OR a newspaper that appears to be one sided and appear to be one sided to the pd units?

Words from Chris Rock "Can't we all just get along?"

Actually I believe the quote came from Rodney King in 1992 with the riots in Los Angeles California.

[Raz 14]

My Question is Who has Command and Who makes Decison on the Water.

I don't think there's any sort of precedent for a water rescue, but in any case I can think of, PD has command almost always. Just the way it is.

[miami222 62]

I don't think there's any sort of precedent for a water rescue, but in any case I can think of, PD has command almost always. Just the way it is.

I could understand that if it was in Rockland County, but the boat was in Westchester

[INIT915 1,119]

Although the S.O. seemed out of line, the jurisdictional issue is mute:

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[d]: "An offense committed on board a vessel navigating or lying in any

river, canal or lake flowing through or situated within this state, may

be prosecuted in any county bordering upon such body of water, or in

which it is located, or through which it passes; and if such offense was

committed upon a vessel operating as a common carrier, it may be

prosecuted in any county bordering upon any body of water upon which

such vessel navigated or passed during the particular trip."

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[c]: An offense committed within five hundred yards of the boundary of

a particular county, and in an adjoining county of this state, may be

prosecuted in either such county.

[miami222 62]

Although the S.O. seemed out of line, the jurisdictional issue is mute:

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[d]: "An offense committed on board a vessel navigating or lying in any

river, canal or lake flowing through or situated within this state, may

be prosecuted in any county bordering upon such body of water, or in

which it is located, or through which it passes; and if such offense was

committed upon a vessel operating as a common carrier, it may be

prosecuted in any county bordering upon any body of water upon which

such vessel navigated or passed during the particular trip."

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[c]: An offense committed within five hundred yards of the boundary of

a particular county, and in an adjoining county of this state, may be

prosecuted in either such county.

What "offense" was committed he hit a log and cracked the hull of his boat?

[INIT915 1,119]

What "offense" was committed he hit a log and cracked the hull of his boat?

That's what Law Enforcement does. They investigate to determine if an offense has been committed or not. You do that by talking to the driver, passengers, etc.

Edited August 29, 2008 by INIT915

[miami222 62]

Although the S.O. seemed out of line, the jurisdictional issue is mute:

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[d]: "An offense committed on board a vessel navigating or lying in any

river, canal or lake flowing through or situated within this state, may

be prosecuted in any county bordering upon such body of water, or in

which it is located, or through which it passes; and if such offense was

committed upon a vessel operating as a common carrier, it may be

prosecuted in any county bordering upon any body of water upon which

such vessel navigated or passed during the particular trip."

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[c]: An offense committed within five hundred yards of the boundary of

a particular county, and in an adjoining county of this state, may be

prosecuted in either such county.

Does this make them IC as well? Do you know what the law says in that regard. I would like to know for futrue refrence.

[hudson144 150]

It appears that there was some type of mis-understanding here on the river,after all these years of finally getting both the FD/PD involved out there IMO there is no room for confrontations on the water or on land. For the agencys involved out there either with this incident or possibly the next incident it should be addressed asap. The scene of an emergency is no place to argue who is in charge or who's district the incident has taken place in. From the mishap at con hook island to this incident its quite evident that a problem does exist. Many of the people involved out there do read this board so lets get it together and straighten things out diplomatically. Happy sailing! HUDSON 144

[NWFDMedic 58]

I've got to agree with the last poster. There is obviously an issue, probably the same types of issues we all run into on a daily basis with traffic accidents. The FD, PD, and EMS all have different priorities and each has a substantial reason that their priority should be the top priority. There has to be something that caused the RCSD Sergeant to all of a sudden change his stance and start shouting out orders (from the first hand accounts). His delivery was obviously flawed, but I think all parties involved need to sit down and discuss water operations so this doesn't happen again. Problems don't get solved on internet chat boards.

[INIT915 1,119]

Does this make them IC as well? Do you know what the law says in that regard. I would like to know for futrue refrence.

Not automatically, I don't believe. As has been discussed here countless times, usually pertaining to land-based MVA's, it's always a complicated question with countless different opinions.

[OnTheWheel 43]

Although the S.O. seemed out of line, the jurisdictional issue is mute:

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[d]: "An offense committed on board a vessel navigating or lying in any

river, canal or lake flowing through or situated within this state, may

be prosecuted in any county bordering upon such body of water, or in

which it is located, or through which it passes; and if such offense was

committed upon a vessel operating as a common carrier, it may be

prosecuted in any county bordering upon any body of water upon which

such vessel navigated or passed during the particular trip."

NYS CPL 20.40 (4)[c]: An offense committed within five hundred yards of the boundary of

a particular county, and in an adjoining county of this state, may be

prosecuted in either such county.

This section covers prosecution only, not jurisdiction. As long as it's in NYS he's a Police Officer, I wouldn't "test the waters" (no pun intended) and see if he has "power" in another county.

[Guest]

While researching the powers of the fire chief for this thread, I found this in NYS Village Law:

§ 10-1002 Rules and regulations. The board of fire commissioners may adopt rules and regulations for the following purposes:

(a) To protect and preserve the village property and apparatus ...

( To prevent danger from fires ......

© To provide for pulling down, blowing up and the removal of buildings and property to arrest the progress of fires or extinguish the same.

Edited August 29, 2008 by LAD19DER NY

[INIT915 1,119]

This section covers prosecution only, not jurisdiction. As long as it's in NYS he's a Police Officer, I wouldn't "test the waters" (no pun intended) and see if he has "power" in another county.

I will have to respectfully disagree on that.

[OnTheWheel 43]

Which part? You don't have the power to arrest for misd or felony anywhere in nys if it happens in your presence?

[Piranha174 37]

While researching the powers of the fire chief for this thread, I found this in NYS Village Law:

§ 10-1002 Rules and regulations. The board of fire commissioners may adopt rules and regulations for the following purposes:

(a) To protect and preserve the village property and apparatus ...

( To prevent danger from fires ......

© To provide for pulling down, blowing up and the removal of buildings and property to arrest the progress of fires or extinguish the same.

I have no idea how the above relates to this incident.

From my understanding the boat was traveling south, struck a submerged object in the water and began taking on water. RCSD responded to complete a NYS mandated Police boating accident report. RCSD determined that the accident did occur within the confines of the County of Rockland and completed the appropriate police investigation.

As far as the FD interaction, I can not comment as I was not their. I can say that we have never had a problem with the FD's in Westchester and do beleive that we have an excellent working relationship.

[khas143 13]

While researching the powers of the fire chief for this thread, I found this in NYS Village Law:

§ 10-1002 Rules and regulations. The board of fire commissioners may adopt rules and regulations for the following purposes:

(a) To protect and preserve the village property and apparatus ...

( To prevent danger from fires ......

© To provide for pulling down, blowing up and the removal of buildings and property to arrest the progress of fires or extinguish the same.

First, I have got to agree with the other posters here...... what does this have to do with anything discussed on this thread. So glad that fire commissioners may adopt rules to BLOW UP things.

Second, I would like to thank all those that provided responses that added content to this thread. I am just trying to find out what occurred. From the posts on lohud and this thread, it would appear that the RCSO suddenly intervened in a rescue operation for no apparent reason. I guess I am just trying to find out if they had a reason to or just arbitrarily decided to and the situation escalated from there.

Just an FYI... if a vessel is involved in any sort of accident, the police are mandated to investigate and file a New York State Vessel Accident Report for it.

From my limited experience on the water, I have never encountered a situation where there was a problem with an FD response. In fact, all FD responses that I have encountered have been great and it doesn’t matter if "we got there first or FD did". IMHO, the most important thing is that the job gets done!!!

ICS and NIMS should be utilized for all agencies at this point in time... The problem is communication! As far as the WCPD, we have recently acquired (thanks DES) a UHF radio and are capable of transmitting on all fireground frequencies. My recommendation is this, all PD Marine Units should be equipped with FD fireground frequencies and all Maritime incidents should immediately be assigned a fireground frequency so that ALL responders can communicate on the same frequency and utilize / implement the ICS system. I feel that would eliminate much of the communication problem(s) that we currently encounter.

Thanks again to all.

P.S. - Any Police Officer in NYS can arrest for misdemeanor anywhere in NYS. Obstructing Governmental Administration is a misdemeanor so it doesn’t matter where the PO is in NYS. CVFD... IMHO... Good call on pulling out.