Emergency Paramedic Intercepts not welcome at church

[joetnymedic 43]

Emergency responders not welcome at church

By Carol Harris Niantic Published on 8/28/2008

When most of us think of churches, we think of a place where no one is turned away. We are greeted with open arms to a safe haven. However, local ambulances and Lawrence & Memorial Hospital paramedics have been put on notice by one church in Waterford that they are not welcome on church property to perform emergency intercepts

Link to the story: http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=b2c48131-...f5-842d85b48cd2

Edited August 29, 2008 by ems-buff
Not adhereing to the copyright rules of the forum

[Goose 188]

welcome to America.

[Guest paramedico987]

Hmmmm... I'd like to get the background info on this before I render an oppinion. Chances are there's either a pattern of using the same place over and over again for the intercept or there was an incident and someone's feelings are hurt.

Anyway medic XYZ can just go ahead and park on the street instead.

[INIT915 1,119]

Hmmmm... I'd like to get the background info on this before I render an oppinion. Chances are there's either a pattern of using the same place over and over again for the intercept or there was an incident and someone's feelings are hurt.

I agree. Poorly written story, short on facts.

[shac 7313 0]

i think that paster should pray he does not needs our help anytime soon ??.

plus he should be removed ??. :angry:

[notch138 7]

Its sad to see that a place were you can go for help is not allowing those that help other to do what they need to do. I am wondering if someone either drove recklessly on there property or was rude to the members of the church

[Guest]

Poorly written article. It appears the author doesn't even venture to get the other side of the story. More facts are needed.

[LTNRFD 266]

Poorly written article. It appears the author doesn't even venture to get the other side of the story. More facts are needed.

It was a letter to the editor.

[JetPhoto 626]

I guess being a priest in a church means you don't have to care what happends to someone passing by in need of aid

[IzzyEng4 427]

The basis of the article, though very poorly written and presented is the church in question does not want ambulances and paramedics parking in their parking lot performing a intercept. L & M Hospital runs their own paramedic service and routinely performs intercepts with incoming BLS ambulance services and "beaching" the medic truck in the lot. I had heard some buzz about this while I was working the other day and can only assume this is what was being talked about.

[RPM3311 3]

As a weekly church goer, I would really not care if they said I couldn't use their facilities or not I'm going to use them.

[JBE 328]

There's gotta be more to this. Let's keep it nice folks.

[firemoose827 324]

Ok, I guess I need to do my "parental" thing again here. This thread is about the permission to PARK an ALS Fly Car on church property and has NO BEARING on religions or their beliefs. I removed some POOR TASTELESS comments that had nothing to do with an ALS Fly Car parking on church grounds. Keep it civil or this entire thread will be trashed. Discuss the churches decision to not allow them to park there or dont say anything at all.

I agree with a few of you here, there is not enough information to go on here. What happened to make them come up with the decision? What was the priests reasons for not allowing them to do so? Did the EMS people do something to provoke this? We need MUCH more info in order to make any kind of decision.

[OnTheWheel 43]

As a weekly church goer, I would really not care if they said I couldn't use their facilities or not I'm going to use them.

It would be quite amusing watching a fly car get towed off the grounds. Then submitting the bill to get the car out of the tow lot. Sounds like this priest would get something towed, if not some criminal charges.

The article definitly leaves out details on why this occured.

[MerlinMedic 5]

As with others, poor reporting. They say priest & we assume Catholic; other faiths use the term priest for their leader of worship. Was there an incidnet with a fly car or other unit? Always ther during 'prime time'? Also, who dimed out the church? Is there an other ax to grind here?

[FFPCogs 863]

I'm not going to get into a religious debate here, but as a practising Roman Catholic I am offended by some of these remarks. A good 70% of the FFs, cops and EMTs I know and work with are also Roman Catholics and we have dedicated ourselves to helping our communities and neighbors, just as the Church has and DOES !!!!!!!!!

This letter to the editor is very vague so any stance one might take on the particular "sect" involved is based solely on opinion. Personally I don't think these forums are the place to bash one religion or another, and those opinions are best left to the backrooms and KKK rallys where they belong.

Peter Cogliano

PROUD Roman Catholic firefighter

Rustamiyah Fire Dept.

Baghdad, Iraq

BTW it is disappointing that this particular "priest" has made this decision. Parking lots provide a relatively safe and unobtrusive area for patient transfers. Maybe some negotiation can resolve the situation.

Cogs

Edited September 7, 2008 by Chris192
Quoted post removed due to inflammatory statements. Nothing in this post was/is offensive. Thank you.

[smwells 7]

I may be wrong, but most church (and other religious venues) are empty 50-80% of the time. As indicated all the facts are not here, but unless there are some circumstance that has created an issue, why not allow the use of the empty lot for ALS intercept. As a provider , I would prefer the intercept in an empty lot vs traffic on the road any day.

Does the priest think the passers-by are getting the wrong impression about his congregation (always in need of medical help??)

[ex-commish 490]

I'm not going to get into a religious debate here, but as a practising Roman Catholic I am offended by this remark. A good 70% of the FFs, cops and EMTs I know and work with are also Roman Catholics and we have dedicated ourselves to helping our communities and neighbors, just as the Church has and DOES !!!!!!!!!

This letter to the editor is very vague so any stance one might take on the particular "sect" involved is based solely on opinion. Personally I don't think these forums are the place to bash one religion or another, and those opinions are best left to the backrooms and KKK rallys where they belong.

Peter Cogliano

PROUD Roman Catholic firefighter

Rustamiyah Fire Dept.

Baghdad, Iraq

I could not agree more. As a Catholic and member of the Knights of Columbus I too found his comment including the comment where he referenced little boys to be offensive, immature and without any connection to the topic at hand.

[DonMoose 3]

The 'little boys' comment was un-needed IMO, but I'm sure he wasn't the first to say it or even think it. Catholic or not, I believe the priest or pastor or whoever he is, needs to re-think what he's saying and get his priorities in check. Banning those who help from using their parking lot doesn't seem like the christian thing to do. However I would like to hear more facts as to why he made his decision.

Some people don't have religion in their life, that doesn't make them a bad person. I'm not 'Roman Catholic' I don't agree with alot that the catholic church says, which is why I'm a Christian. But, that's a whole other topic.

StaySafe guys.

[FFPCogs 863]

OK one more note (hopefully) on the "religion" angle of this thread.

The First Amendment guarantees us freedom of religion, and as a fervent supporter of this I could care less what anyone else's religion is..or isn't. You are free to choose what is best for YOU, but don't sh*t on my religion based on your opinions. Intolerance, bigotry and ignorance are far more insidious and dangerous than an EMS service not being allowed to use one particular parking lot.

Maybe just finding another parking lot is the answer.

Also it is usually not prudent to make judgements without knowing all the facts...most of which are missing from the letter supplied on the first post here.

Just a thought

Cogs

[IzzyEng4 427]

OK some more information for you all. The reverend at this church had previously had problems with the local town police sitting in the church driveway running radar. According to another forum, the reverend came out and told the officer to move his vehicle off of the property. In CT, a police officer is not supposed to run radar while parked on private property (as I have been told and lead to believe). It seems this spot has been used quite a lot for intercepts as it has become a routine with everyone.

Think of it this way, you own a private lot and the same thing happened all the time, say blocking your business parking area or home ect. and was never approached by the EMS agency asking “hey can we use this as a rendezvous point?” I think after a while you might get annoyed by it.

Whether it is right or wrong for what the reverend of that particular parish is up to the eye of the beholder. I think he should have been more compassionate by what was written but of course this was a LETTER TO THE EDITOR and seems like a big (expletive) match going on here, only one side is being viewed.

I’ll continue to find out more info.

(PS I’m a good, Irish, Catholic, boy…. Note where the commas are! LOL)

[abaduck 123]

I'm pretty damn certain it's a crime in every jurisdiction to obstruct or interfere with an LEO in the performance of their duty.

I don't know the law in NY, or CT, but I think it likely that it's also a crime to obstruct or interfere with firefighters performing their duty. If it isn't it damn well should be!

How does the law stand with respect to EMS?

Mike

[NWFDMedic 58]

I hope you get some more information Izzy. This seems to be a situation that could be handled by a phone call or two between the two parties rather than a letter to the editor. I can't see any house of worship having an issue with a meet taking place or a flycar being parked in the lot; maybe the placement within the lot, dangerous driving by apparatus operators, EMS responders smoking in the lot or leaving a mess, or EMS responders making unnecassary noise during late hours, etc. etc. Those are issues that should be able to be handled by the agencies involved rather than making the lot unavailable. If the priest is just being difficult, then maybe it would be better to find an EMS worker who was a paritioner and have him talk to the church fellows.

[tunaFish 0]

The 'little boys' comment was un-needed IMO, but I'm sure he wasn't the first to say it or even think it. Catholic or not, I believe the priest or pastor or whoever he is, needs to re-think what he's saying and get his priorities in check. Banning those who help from using their parking lot doesn't seem like the christian thing to do. However I would like to hear more facts as to why he made his decision.

Some people don't have religion in their life, that doesn't make them a bad person. I'm not 'Roman Catholic' I don't agree with alot that the catholic church says, which is why I'm a Christian. But, that's a whole other topic.

StaySafe guys.

I am a RC as well, which is not the topic here. Maybe the fact that it IS private property and he can do/say what he wants.

Being that this has caused such a stir of comments, maybe writng to the paper/person that wrote the story, might just bring some more detail as to why it occured.

What do the members of the community say about this? The members of his congregation. This could go on and on. No one knows the answer, but the priest.

I think enough has been said.

Tuna

[NWFDMedic 58]

I'm pretty damn certain it's a crime in every jurisdiction to obstruct or interfere with an LEO in the performance of their duty.

I don't know the law in NY, or CT, but I think it likely that it's also a crime to obstruct or interfere with firefighters performing their duty. If it isn't it damn well should be!

How does the law stand with respect to EMS?

Mike

Well, if it came down to the law, I'm pretty sure the EMS agency could park its flycar where it darn well pleases during the course of an emergency operation. While the priest could complain, he probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally. However, as an EMS agency representative, I would rather come to an amicable resolution to whatever issue the priest has rather than causing a fight in the newspaper.

[RPM3311 3]

It would be quite amusing watching a fly car get towed off the grounds. Then submitting the bill to get the car out of the tow lot. Sounds like this priest would get something towed, if not some criminal charges.

The article definitly leaves out details on why this occured.

I'd pay the bill to get the car out of the lot, no matter how much money I spend over time to get the car out my life is still alot better than those I was trying to help. Could you imagine telling a family you couldn't save their loved one's life because you didn't have any where for the medic to intercept the ambulance because you're not allowed in that church's parking lot?

[OnTheWheel 43]

Is someone from this area? Is there NO OTHER place for a fly car to be parked and the medic jump in the ambulance? I find it hard to believe there's no other alternative, a mall, 7-11, school etc. If the priest doesn't want you there then so be it, find an alternative. To want to jam it down his throat isn't very Christian. To say that he's obstructing EMS operations or whatever, Id say you would have to justify that there was no alternate site for this intercept to occur. I dont want to what if this to death, im just addressing the general concept, as the article has no details.

[Guest paramedico987]

I'm pretty damn certain it's a crime in every jurisdiction to obstruct or interfere with an LEO in the performance of their duty.

I don't know the law in NY, or CT, but I think it likely that it's also a crime to obstruct or interfere with firefighters performing their duty. If it isn't it damn well should be!

How does the law stand with respect to EMS?

Mike

Further discussion regarding the specific circumstances would be mute without additional information. Mike, however, does bring up an interesting question. What kind of authority does an EMS responder have? For discussion purposes let's assume the response is separate from any FD since there are already widely distributed, well established, laws in place.

I know that assault upon an EMS worker while performing EMS duties is in the same category as assault on a LEO... but do EMSerz have any legal priviledge outisde of the VTL?

[pjm1733 22]

Private Property is Private Property . Not Welcome is not Welcome. What is the issue. Regardless of intentions. I would not want an ems intercept on my property either. In fact after being told to stay off my property. I would have the flycar towed off, at the owners expense. After being notified, and you continued to use Private Property. ever hear of criminal tresspass. Use common sense. I am sure this was not a one time intercept. It has to be a culmination of events.

The church was being used as a routine intercept point. Intercepts to the lame person causes a sense of alarm, panic and curiosity. Obviously not wanted at this place of worship. Common sense would tell you not to use schools, churches and businesses. What is the issue Find another place, get over it. Who are you to impose your will on others. If you are looking for a safe place to perform intercepts. Go out and get permission from property owners. For pre designated intercept points.

Forget about what is not written

Quote from article

local ambulances and Lawrence & Memorial Hospital paramedics have been put on notice by one church in Waterford that they are not welcome on church property to perform emergency intercepts.

I like how the author of this article starts out by saying, KEY WORD on church property. Then prefaces the next paragraph, with left on side of road

Quote from article

You may have noticed a paramedic truck left along the side of a road or in a parking lot from time to time. It's never there too long. It means one of your friends, neighbors or a loved one is gravely ill and needs a higher level of care than EMTs on the ambulance could render.

Now if the truck is parked on the side of the road, or the intercept takes place on the side of the road, The issue is dead.

It is also real funny to me. That people have a negative opinion about this church, not wanting this service provided on their property. But in adjacent countys ALS fly cars are not allowed to park,stage or use some of the firehouses that they serve, and work with. Go figure. wbs

Edited September 7, 2008 by pjm1733

[crcocr1 8]

Sorry to correct you pjm, but public safety workers, including EMS, have the right to park on private property in an emergency situation. In common law, it was called "public necessity" in which the property owner had no right to recover monetary damages, nor criminal recourse. See generally Crim. Proc. Law 35.05 (West. 2008)(regarding justification defenses to criminal offenses, such as trespass); Pari v. City of Binghamton, 57 A.D.2d 674 (3d Dep't 1977)(discussing necessity defense); Herter v. Mullen, 159 N.Y. 28 (1899)(same).

Here, the ambulance company can choose to honor the request of the church; but if the intercept is needed in an emergency, there really isn't much the church can do.

Edited September 7, 2008 by crcocr1
Mod note added requesting citation.