VAC Shirts to Non-Members a Liability?

[Guest]

i have seen some non-vac members wearing vac shirts recently and i'm wondering if this is a liability?

i know not everyone who wears an FD shirt is in the FD, but then again there's not much a FF can do w/o his gear - in a general sense. vac people are cabable of doing things w/o their gear, so would the public exect those who wear a vac or ems shirt to initaite care?

[effd3918 34]

i have seen some non-vac members wearing vac shirts recently and i'm wondering if this is a liability?

i know not everyone who wears an FD shirt is in the FD, but then again there's not much a FF can do w/o his gear - in a general sense. vac people are cabable of doing things w/o their gear, so would the public exect those who wear a vac or ems shirt to initaite care?

I really think thats like saying anyone who wears a FDNY tee shirt is a firefighter or NYPD is a cop. I dont think the public looks at a teeshirt and assumes they are capable of handling an emergency... selling VAC shirts is a way of income not a way of saying your trained

[ex-commish 490]

i have seen some non-vac members wearing vac shirts recently and i'm wondering if this is a liability?

i know not everyone who wears an FD shirt is in the FD, but then again there's not much a FF can do w/o his gear - in a general sense. vac people are cabable of doing things w/o their gear, so would the public exect those who wear a vac or ems shirt to initaite care?

I believe there are more important issues out there than people wearing " vac" shirts.

[27east 19]

I believe there are more important issues out there than people wearing " vac" shirts.

There certainly are,

like....

parades, blue lights, and roto-rays.

[ja3kfd 34]

I agree with what HFd says as well,

I also do not think there would be any Liability, to the vac or the person, wearing the shirt. The shirt is an "advertisment" for the Vac or FD just like a shirt that says Caterpillar, Mac Tools, Budweiser, etc.

I know of no way to stop people from getting them either, unless the Fd , PD or Vac tells Members they can not give them away and do not throw them in Good Will bins etc.

Also we would have to stop selling them as some places do as a Fundraiser.

[TR54 239]

I say No big deal . If an Emergency were to happen , a persons shirt is not a state Certfication. However , Years ago problems with FD T-shirts in my dept occurred when a non-member was acting disorderly and the PD asssumed he was from my FD - "Because he had YOUR T-Shirts on". It was quicky cleared up.

I personally disagree with a person that is not a POLICE officer wearing a T-Shirt that says in big Block Letters POLICE Motorcycle unit on the back.

I just happen to see this at the Dutchess county fair yesterday.

The word POLICE on a car or Shirt has a much different meaning that VAC Or EMS. VAC no big deal.

[PVFD233 68]

i have seen some non-vac members wearing vac shirts recently and i'm wondering if this is a liability?

i know not everyone who wears an FD shirt is in the FD, but then again there's not much a FF can do w/o his gear - in a general sense. vac people are cabable of doing things w/o their gear, so would the public exect those who wear a vac or ems shirt to initaite care?

I think it is. Especially when the 5 star citizens from the nearest motel are wearing them down the street. "Got it from where? The salvation army?"

When you wear it you are representing that agency. Just like the non-members that have th liscense plates with agency id on their cars, and then drive like as**oles.

[TR54 239]

When you wear it you are representing that agency. Just like the non-members that have th liscense plates with agency id on their cars, and then drive like as**oles.

I respect your opinion , but If I wear a NY Yankee T-Shirt I'm not a player. Just a fan of the ball club. Go Yanks !

[TR54 239]

vacguy are we talking -uniform shirt or T-Shirt?

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

First off. I would go by the rule of thumb. That anyone wearing a T-shirt advertising they are the POLICE is not an actual cop. And if it is. he/she is a dope that likes to wear a target on their back. Tactics wise it's bad. I'm sure the cops on here will agree. Half the people walking around in NYC with NYPD clothing on are tourists in from out of town.

The issue isn't libility. Because the person is not a nenber. So them not acting has no bearing on the libility. It's the bad PR you will get if it is run as a fact like the person is a member. I strongly agree that clothing with agency logos etc. Should be under a strict control. If you want to see shirts. Make sure that it has something on it that will distinguish it from actual members shirts. Like the word supporter, or auxillary.

Just a thought.

[FFD941 20]

I actually just purchased in Volly Shirt in LBI from Ship's Bottom and in big letters under the front and back it says SUPPORTER

[NWFDMedic 58]

I actually just purchased in Volly Shirt in LBI from Ship's Bottom and in big letters under the front and back it says SUPPORTER

Exactly. I got a T-shirt from East Fishkill FD's Chili Cookoff last year and the logo said something like "Humanitarian Committee". But I also have countless T-shirts from other agencies and most are sold and available to the public (wetdowns, parades, etc.). As far as resolving a problem with the local PD thinking that it was an FD or VAC member that was causing problems, that can be easily resolved. The general public, not so much. What bothers me more is former members (one in particular who is a troublemaker) walking around town in my FD t-shirts and most people still associate him to us, even though we kicked him out. Then again, this kid also has a very official looking FDNY job shirt with his name inscribed on it.

We had a standing rule in my old VAC ... if you were not an EMT, you were not allowed to wear attire with the VAC insignia in public unless you were on duty with the duty crew. The premise behind this was if a non-EMT was walking around Price Chopper in his NWVAC shirt and someone needed assistance, they would be placed in a bad position.

[Guest]

vacguy are we talking -uniform shirt or T-Shirt?

t shirts only. uniforms i would hope would have different opinions

[TR54 239]

t shirts only. uniforms i would hope would have different opinions

10-4. Thanks

[OoO 24]

We had a standing rule in my old VAC ... if you were not an EMT, you were not allowed to wear attire with the VAC insignia in public unless you were on duty with the duty crew. The premise behind this was if a non-EMT was walking around Price Chopper in his NWVAC shirt and someone needed assistance, they would be placed in a bad position.

I don't think that is really fair. All members of my VAC (and most VACs) are trained in CPR and First Aid. First aid is basically all an EMT can do before an ambulance arrives with supplies and transportation. Before I became an EMT, I provided first aid to one or two people while waiting for an ambulance to arrive and I would think most would do the same.

[PVFD233 68]

I respect your opinion , but If I wear a NY Yankee T-Shirt I'm not a player. Just a fan of the ball club. Go Yanks !

There is a difference though, between a world wide known sports team and a little towns VAC.

[ex-commish 490]

We had a standing rule in my old VAC ... if you were not an EMT, you were not allowed to wear attire with the VAC insignia in public unless you were on duty with the duty crew. The premise behind this was if a non-EMT was walking around Price Chopper in his NWVAC shirt and someone needed assistance, they would be placed in a bad position.

How was this enforced? And if someone was caught what happened? Did you have a t-shirt squad?

[CPAGE 2]

Shirts we dont need no stinking Shirts.

Out here in NJ one town and it's members had t-shirts made for the members (Blue shirts) and had made shirts for sale to the public (Grey shirts and white shirts). All the members would wear the shirts on the duty shift and joe public had his shirt. And of course the members had the grey and white shirts as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris

[AFS1970 504]

Funny you should mention ols shirts being donated. A few years ago, my brother (who is not involved in the Emergency Services at all) was working sorting dinated clothes for a local charity, he came across a uniform shirt with patches on it, and actually cut the sleeves off to get me the patches because he knew I collected them. It turned out that this shirt was from a now defunct agency in our city, that I had never even heard of, and spent some time researching what the patch actually was.

Another story was one of our members who stopped at a tag sale and found a windbreaker that had our department and the number of our Tower Ladder on it, but was in a color that he had never seen. He bought it for a couple of bucks and wore it around, as it was still in near mint condition. It was aparently a design that was only made once, and not too many current members had even seen it.

So these things do turn up where we least expect them.

[Guest feraldan]

We had a standing rule in my old VAC ... if you were not an EMT, you were not allowed to wear attire with the VAC insignia in public unless you were on duty with the duty crew. The premise behind this was if a non-EMT was walking around Price Chopper in his NWVAC shirt and someone needed assistance, they would be placed in a bad position.

I think this is a good point. Most people don't draw a line between an "untrained" responder (assistant, aide, whatever you'd like to call it), an EMT and a Paramedic. Either everyone on an EMS crew is a Paramedic or everyone is an EMT. The terms have no meaning to them. They don't represent a specific level of care, merely "help". Scope of practice is clear to us, however it is not to most of the public.

EMS (specifically volunteer) is strange in that it allows someone with very little to no training to operate on an ambulance in a real emergency. People don't expect untrained firemen to show up at their house in the event of a fire as they don't expect a police officer to show up and have no law enforcement training.

[Guest]

People don't expect untrained firemen to show up at their house in the event of a fire as they don't expect a police officer to show up and have no law enforcement training.

not true. i know when i rode fire calls as a junior corps and after my "in house training" i still had no idea what i was doing and didn't get a grip of what was going on for a few months...if i recall right i only did a handful of calls per month.

secondly, as far as P.O.'s i did a call where the dispatch info was "unconscious and not breathing" i heard the partol car call on scene a min or two prior to our arrival and the newbie cop was standing on the front lawn...that's it, he was just standing there. did this lack of effort have anything to do with "law enforcement," no, but it's still his job as a first responder to initiate the cpr...which he failed to do.

although the rate "untrained" people could be of vac members, it is very untrue to assume vac's are the only agencies with sub-par trained members responding.

[Remember585 815]

1. Don't put your old shirts in clothes drop bins!

2. Don't put "certification levels" on shirts and give them out.

3. Look on the internet, at some stores and on many boardwalks, they sell shirts that say "Lifeguard" in sizes up to 5X.... how many 5X Lifeguards are really out there?!

I wear shirts from Fire Departments all over the place simply because I like them. I don't pretend to be a member of any of these places.

On a side note, one of our jackets showed up somewhere and our guy (tanker10engr) got a pic of it.... (PS, this wasn't a joke)...

Edited August 26, 2008 by Remember585

[nycemt728 49]

PD and FD t-shirts abound, the problem becomes when those t-shirts are used as uniform pieces as opposed to station wear or street clothes. When a ff jumps out of a truck for a non fire related job wearing a tshirt or a cop on raid is wearing a tshirt, the line can be blurred. Likewise, when a tshirt is used as a uniform piece on an ambulance, yes it becomes an issue when a non-member wears that same or very similar tshirt. I think it then may very well cause an expectation of training or service when in fact none exixts. There are two options: making the official uniform not include tshirts, or making a tshirt cleary different from a uniform tshirt (ie making it for a specific event, labeling it supporter, family member etc) and ensuring that those tshirts then are only worn by non members, not those on duty.