Ambulance fire prompts big response in Nyack

[x635 4,066]

Ambulance fire prompts big response in Nyack

By Ben Rubin • The Journal News • August 10, 2008

NYACK — About 50 firefighters were called to Nyack Hospital around 1:15 p.m.

today for an electric fire on an ambulance.

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...NEWS03/80810007

[Oswegowind 17]

Fire in a vehicle near a structure...gets put in as a structure fire in my book until a unit gets on scene and advises that they "can handle"! You never know...and as JBE once said, "When in doubt, send em out!" Especially at a hospital where there are more dangers than at a regular house! Kudos to Nyack and to the EMS crew for how this was handled.

I hope you said that JBE...just remember it being part of a discussion we had years ago about Highway responses in NYC...

[JBE 328]

I did. When in Doubt, Turn em Out!! You can always put the toys back in the toybox for later.

[NWFDMedic 58]

It's good that the EMS crew knew what to do, I don't think many EMS providers that aren't firefighters as well would have thought to make the effort to mitigate the hazard. This might be something I'll talk to new employees about when I'm doing field orientation.

[RocklandFires 44]

Fire in a vehicle near a structure...gets put in as a structure fire in my book until a unit gets on scene and advises that they "can handle"! You never know...and as JBE once said, "When in doubt, send em out!" Especially at a hospital where there are more dangers than at a regular house! Kudos to Nyack and to the EMS crew for how this was handled.

I hope you said that JBE...just remember it being part of a discussion we had years ago about Highway responses in NYC...

Nyack rolls all 8 pieces of apparatus to all their calls. If it's a brush fire you are getting (2) 100 foot tillers, 5 engines & a rescue.

[capt2102 64]

Is it true that Nyack sends 8 fire apparatus to EVERY call? A trash can in a parking lot gets the same response as a dwelling fire at 3AM?

[irishfire2491 24]

It is good to have them respond if you dont need them you can always turn them back, I rather see them get a crew then not get a crew when you really need them. Good Pre- Plan set up

[robert benz 344]

Nyack rolls all 8 pieces of apparatus to all their calls. If it's a brush fire you are getting (2) 100 foot tillers, 5 engines & a rescue.

my question to that has to be why???

[Guest]

my question to that has to be why???

Because Nyack Fire Department is made up of eight individual fire companies so everyone goes. It is not part of the pre plan as far as I know. Each company has it's own officers, Captain, Lt etc, as well as it's own commissioners.

[Guest]

That is beyond ridiculous, the Chief has no control?

[Raz 14]

It is good to have them respond if you dont need them you can always turn them back, I rather see them get a crew then not get a crew when you really need them. Good Pre- Plan set up

Actually, it's a terrible set up.

1. Putting that many pieces of apparatus on the road at one time is asking for trouble

2. Assuming that they all arrive at the same time, any cohesive rig placement goes out the window.

3. It's an flagrant waste of fuel.

4. It encourages men to respond with the rig immediately, without waiting for a crew.

5. It encourages races to the scene.

6. It allows men from one company to acclimate themselves only to their own rig, making them far less useful when working off of other rigs.

7. There's absolutely no reason to do it, outside of the idiotic "PRIDE!" argument.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Because Nyack Fire Department is made up of eight individual fire companies so everyone goes. It is not part of the pre plan as far as I know. Each company has it's own officers, Captain, Lt etc, as well as it's own commissioners.

That is the most ridiculous reason I have ever heard just because they are 8 separate companies with their own officers. Then why is their fire department called the NYACK JOINT FIRE DISTIRCT? They are all incorporated into the same department / fire protection district correct???? They have a set of chiefs that run the department and what engine / truck / rescue company doesn't have their own set of line officers????? My department had five individual fire companies that make up a department but we have running rules. If this is the case in Nyack were everyone rolls, then it the lack of a proper set of runnings rules in the department.

I not sure how they roll but you know what I'm gonna do some research so we get a straight answer. Give me a few.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Oh and to make a comment about the original post to say on topic. When in doubt, send it out. When there is a fire with an exposure problem to a structure, a full or general response should go depending on the size and type of the building.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

That is beyond ridiculous, the Chief has no control?

No the Chief does have control there are 3 Chiefs, elected from the 8 companies. This is their procedure for alarms, it works for them and the village they serve. This is a very large and strong all Volunteer Dept. What other Volunteer Dept. gets 2 tillers out for alarms. By the way they still use wooden ladders, has nothing to do with the topic but it's different for the East coast.

[gamewell45 258]

No the Chief does have control there are 3 Chiefs, elected from the 8 companies. This is their procedure for alarms, it works for them and the village they serve. This is a very large and strong all Volunteer Dept. What other Volunteer Dept. gets 2 tillers out for alarms. By the way they still use wooden ladders, has nothing to do with the topic but it's different for the East coast.

Spin The Wheel, excellent response to some of the criticism posted here. As good intentioned as it may be, all too often some of us may think that the way our department "does it" is the only way it should be done. Whatever works best for each individual department is what they should be doing. It helps to make for a smooth running department in most cases.

[JBE 328]

OK, wait a second. For a reported brush fire, the entire department responds??

Doesn't Nyack have a set response policy for each type of incident??

Brian, please tell me that isn't the norm.

[Future Fireman 4]

I did. When in Doubt, Turn em Out!! You can always put the toys back in the toybox for later.

You really should trademark that. More money to spend/save!

Mike

[Raz 14]

This is a very large and strong all Volunteer Dept. What other Volunteer Dept. gets 2 tillers out for alarms.

Hey, good for them. But...

And actually, I take back that whole "good for them" part. If you make your district pay for two tiller ladders, you damn well better be able to get them out whenever they're needed (for example: a situation that doesn't involve the words "brush fire"). That's like the whole Chris Rock joke about expecting to be rewarded for things they should be doing anyway. "I aint never been to jail." "That's great, want a cookie?"

[RocklandFires 44]

OK, wait a second. For a reported brush fire, the entire department responds??

Doesn't Nyack have a set response policy for each type of incident??

Brian, please tell me that isn't the norm.

When the tones go off, no matter what the call is, all 8 companies respond. Not every apparatus may get out of the barn, but for the most part they do. That's just they way they do it. If the Chief calls a signal 11 [situation under control], he may tell the remaining apparatus not yet on the road not to respond, but that's his call. If the apparatus doesn't hear otherwise, they are rolling.

[LTNRFD 266]

OK, wait a second. For a reported brush fire, the entire department responds??

Doesn't Nyack have a set response policy for each type of incident??

Brian, please tell me that isn't the norm.

I was working at Nyack Hospital back in the 90's and saw the Upper Nyack ladder race down Midland Ave to a leaf fire in the back of a truck on the middle school football field. They squeezed out Jackson Hose to the gate onto the field. They raced over to the fire and engaged their pump to get water on the leaves before Jackson Hose could.

This ladder at the time was a tiller, and I thought I was going to witness it jack knifing as it attempted to negotiate the opening in the gate. It had just started to rain and the road was slick. This ladder only carried a small amount of water, maybe 75-90 gals, and Jackson Hose had to finish the job that Upper Nyack started.

[abaduck 123]

When the tones go off, no matter what the call is, all 8 companies respond. Not every apparatus may get out of the barn, but for the most part they do. That's just they way they do it. If the Chief calls a signal 11 [situation under control], he may tell the remaining apparatus not yet on the road not to respond, but that's his call. If the apparatus doesn't hear otherwise, they are rolling.

Wow. And what happens when a big job comes in at the other end of the district, with all eight companies warming their toes at a frelling brush fire? Sometimes it makes sense to keep some of your toys in the toybox; you want to be able to find them in case they're needed later...

Mike

[JBE 328]

Just an FYI, the toys in the toybox quote is, and will be credited to SFAD G.Morstatt, Bronx CO.

[RocklandFires 44]

Wow. And what happens when a big job comes in at the other end of the district, with all eight companies warming their toes at a frelling brush fire? Sometimes it makes sense to keep some of your toys in the toybox; you want to be able to find them in case they're needed later...

Mike

The Chief releases them from the incident they are on and they respond to the 2nd incident. Every company doesn't engage the call, the Chief just uses what equipment & manpower he needs. Some units will just stage away from the scene, possibly at a hydrant or on a side street.

Nyack is one of my departments mutual aid companies so I am not going to comment on wether I agree or disagree with their response policy. What I will say is that I can see both sides of the coin. There are definitely some Pros & Cons to having all the apparatus respond for every alarm.

[MoFire390 118]

Not for nothing but in this case it could have been a lot worse. And rolling 8 pecies to the scene is a good idea. Even at s brush fire. You never know what the exposures are. The perfect example is what happened to croton 2 rainfalls ago. They got dispatched to a brush fire which the updated to a working structure fire.

[Rimrockny24 0]

Not for nothing but in this case it could have been a lot worse. And rolling 8 pecies to the scene is a good idea. Even at s brush fire. You never know what the exposures are. The perfect example is what happened to croton 2 rainfalls ago. They got dispatched to a brush fire which the updated to a working structure fire.

What makes rolling 8 pieces of apparatus to every scene a good idea? Do they not have response areas? Is it a manpower issue? You are stripping the equipment from one side of the town leaving it unprotected to send it to a small incident or even a false alarm on the other side of town. Not to mention the excess risk you put yourself and fellow fighterfighters in as well as the public racing across town.

[LTNRFD 266]

Not for nothing but in this case it could have been a lot worse. And rolling 8 pecies to the scene is a good idea. Even at s brush fire. You never know what the exposures are. The perfect example is what happened to croton 2 rainfalls ago. They got dispatched to a brush fire which the updated to a working structure fire.

Get a grip. Under your theory we should have Stat Flight stand by for ALL people down calls. You never know, the patient may have fallen out of the sky. I do agree that a hospital should get a greater response, but a brush fire. The risk reward is tipped the wrong way.

Sending the appropriate equipment is why you train people to be dispatchers. That is the main reason emergency service departments are dispatched by agencies like 60-control. Yes they can make mistakes, but 99.999% of the time they get a good handle on the situation real fast and dispatch the appropriate response. How many times do they upgrade the response just on the tone of the callers voice or things they hear in the background of the call.

[Danger 160]

I refrain from saying a lot about this kind of stuff because I QTIP'd the thread about younger members not being know it alls...but this is a call my grandmother could make. I can't see how you could possibly think its a good idea sending more than 2 (or 3) and 1 to an automatic alarm and 3 (or 4) and 2 for a full first alarm. Or more than a brush truck and an engine (initially) to a brush fire, more than 1 engine to a wires down call, etc.

[Raz 14]

Not for nothing but in this case it could have been a lot worse. And rolling 8 pecies to the scene is a good idea. Even at s brush fire. You never know what the exposures are. The perfect example is what happened to croton 2 rainfalls ago. They got dispatched to a brush fire which the updated to a working structure fire.

I've already chimed in with the list of what I feel is wrong with this response system, but let me ask...Did that structure fire required every single piece of equipment Croton had at their disposal? Even in mutual aid happy areas, how many times can you actually use 8 pieces of apparatus (tankers excluded)? A hospital might be an exception, but you're saying that every call should get that response. Think about it, how many engines can hit hydrants before you start seriously dropping the water pressure of the first due unit? How many aerials can be put to use before you start overlapping their operational area? How the hell would you use a brush truck at a structure fire? It creates a logistical and operational nightmare, and yes, I've seen this happen.

[MoFire390 118]

Not for nothing I was just stating my oppion. I didn't expect to be blown up the way I am. I have heard of companies running ladders to brush fires. Its not the first time I've heard of it. <br /><br />I wasn't at the fire in yorktown so I cannot speak on what they rolled. And if you leave out tankers then why bring it up? Tankers are just as important as any other appuratus on the road.

And I never claimed to be a know it all either!!

Edited August 14, 2008 by MoFire390

[Raz 14]

if you leave out tankers then why bring it up? Tankers are just as important as any other appuratus on the road.

They are, but they don't operate in a comparable fashion to any other fire apparatus. I brought it up because tankers were the obvious exception to the rule. There's a limit to how many engines, trucks, rescues, etc. that you can have operating in an efficient manner at a scene. There's no such limit with tankers, because they operate away from a scene, or at least at the very outskirts of one. There's also no "duplication of services", since they're more of a water source than they are a piece of fire suppresion equipment.

I've rarely worked with tankers, only on a few mutual aid calls, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Raz