Recruitment And Tradition

[223Truck 0]

i have spent 10 years in a paid department and i have been a volly for quite some time. is it me or has tradition fallen drastically over the years. i mean i remember in my volly department when teens would flood into the firehouse wanting to be members. Now we go out for recruitment and none of them even seem interested, anyone else have this problem

[Ladder44 73]

I think most of them dont care as much about where they live or what an impact they can do but volunteering, like voting why so many young people not vote? the just dont care, most kids just wanna go to college and make 6 figures a year sitting in a office or just dont have a guts to do it

[Remember585 815]

Most kids would have to look up from their laptop computers, I-phones, PS 3, Xbox, Sidekick phones, their bongs, designer drugs or whatever else it is they do OTHER then being a productive member of society to even realize someone is pitching recruitment their way. It's a "me me me" world where everyone wants something in return for their time. There is no future in the volunteer fire service or EMS and the future of career fire departments is screwed too - no sense of pride, brotherhood or plain old "doing the right thing" left.

I blame it on the parents who don't discipline their kids, the schools for being too easy on them and the overall lack of respect all public safety professionals (especially cops who continually get crapped on) for how useless future generations will be.

I say we round up the Guidance Counselers and get them involved with our worlds and maybe then we can get some of these skateboarding, pot smoking, LEXUS DRIVING (Grrrrr) punks a sense of how to give back - whether they do it for nothing or pursue a career as a firefighter, EMT, Medic or Cop. Stop pushing everyone into "corporate America" where they never have a sense of self-satisfaction and bury their miseries in a bottle....

[DaRock98 76]

Most kids would have to look up from their laptop computers, I-phones, PS 3, Xbox, Sidekick phones, their bongs, designer drugs or whatever else it is they do OTHER then being a productive member of society to even realize someone is pitching recruitment their way. It's a "me me me" world where everyone wants something in return for their time. There is no future in the volunteer fire service or EMS and the future of career fire departments is screwed too - no sense of pride, brotherhood or plain old "doing the right thing" left.

I blame it on the parents who don't discipline their kids, the schools for being too easy on them and the overall lack of respect all public safety professionals (especially cops who continually get crapped on) for how useless future generations will be.

I say we round up the Guidance Counselers and get them involved with our worlds and maybe then we can get some of these skateboarding, pot smoking, LEXUS DRIVING (Grrrrr) punks a sense of how to give back - whether they do it for nothing or pursue a career as a firefighter, EMT, Medic or Cop. Stop pushing everyone into "corporate America" where they never have a sense of self-satisfaction and bury their miseries in a bottle....

OUCH!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

OUCH!

Second that.

Like 585 said, however in fewer words.......its apathy on the part of my generation towards their community and the neighbors that leads to this lack of recruitment.

It maybe due to re-focused and rebounded efforts but I have begun to see a surge towards younger people starting young and moving through the ranks.

[Future Fireman 4]

For those in High School and College and have other friends outside of the depts. station/firehouse/quarters:

Take a look at some of your friends outside of the firehouse/station/quarters, most of them really have the following problems:

• Lack Common Sense
• They think about what's best for them, not for others
• They always think someone else will do it for them
• They want to make money without working hard

That being said, obviously, someone being raised in a tough area, where more people live in poverty, obviously, they're gonna have street smarts and (sometimes) common sense if they stay out of crime.

Mike

[ex-commish 490]

Most kids would have to look up from their laptop computers, I-phones, PS 3, Xbox, Sidekick phones, their bongs, designer drugs or whatever else it is they do OTHER then being a productive member of society to even realize someone is pitching recruitment their way. It's a "me me me" world where everyone wants something in return for their time. There is no future in the volunteer fire service or EMS and the future of career fire departments is screwed too - no sense of pride, brotherhood or plain old "doing the right thing" left.

I blame it on the parents who don't discipline their kids, the schools for being too easy on them and the overall lack of respect all public safety professionals (especially cops who continually get crapped on) for how useless future generations will be.

I say we round up the Guidance Counselers and get them involved with our worlds and maybe then we can get some of these skateboarding, pot smoking, LEXUS DRIVING (Grrrrr) punks a sense of how to give back - whether they do it for nothing or pursue a career as a firefighter, EMT, Medic or Cop. Stop pushing everyone into "corporate America" where they never have a sense of self-satisfaction and bury their miseries in a bottle....

I have to say I agree with this. There is no pride today wether it be for our country or our communities. As a parent of a 16 year old it is tough today raising kids because of the influences mentioned and the liberal element in this country that seems to say it is ok to be bad and afraid to put fear in the hearts of our youth. There are too many self proclaimed experts, many who never fed a screaming baby at 3:00 am who seem to know what is best for our kids.

Even some of the kids that join ( not all) at times can be disrespectful and think they know it all. They defy authority and justify it and when some of us try to correct them we are accused of picking on them or we just don't understand. You have to tell them to pack hose or clean the rigs when years ago if it had to be done it got done becasue we had a sense of duty and pride.

Maybe it is our faults for letting it get like this....

[FFPCogs 863]

I joined my first VFD in 1980 at 16, and I did so because for as long as I can remember I wanted to be a "fireman". I and most of my firends who also joined were typical teenagers of the day in my area...smoking pot, drinking beer, trying to get laid...and avoiding school as much as possible . We were also typical in other ways though...we had respect for our elders and the community in which we lived and we were long term residents of that community.

Obviously the world has changed considerably since then...kids and young adults are still the same when it comes to "experimenting" and seeking that sometimes elusive "sack time"...some things will never change. But as for respect and community involvement, these things have sadly passed from the scene for the most part. Now I'm no sociologist but some reasons as to why this is are blatantly obvious, at least to me..

First off when I was young there was usually at least one full time parent (or grandparent) to instill and reinforce core values into their kids...thank God. Today both parents HAVE to work to simply put a meal on the table, so kids are left to their own devices and influences.

Back then society had a different attitude about responsibilty and excuses. Nowadays there's an excuse for everything under the sun...people don't take responsibility for their own actions..it's always someone elses fault. From this stems the unwillingness and in some cases the inability for people to actually work hard for themselves...someone else will do it. Commitment and dedication are the casualties of this attitude, and that's in every sector of society not just the fire service.

Kids today and in recent years have been bombarded by TV, by the movies and in ads by the notion that wealth is the only TRUE measure of a persons value in the world. Anything that detracts from them getting "theirs" or any profession that actually requires getting dirty are of no interest to them..in general. Again without the grounding from home young people are easily seduced by this fallacy and never develope any interest in helping others. For VFDs this attitude is in direct contrast to their tradition. Todays society has ingrained in younger generations that you must ALWAYS get some material reward, otherwise any endeavor is not worth the effort.

As we get a little older we have to work, have our own children and build a life...that takes more out of our paychecks today than it did in years past. My generation (I'm 44) is the first in U.S. history to be worse off overall than our parents. To meet the needs of raising our families, keeping a roof over our heads or simply putting food on the table in some cases, takes ALL of our time.

Society today is much more transient than it used to be, people are simply moving more often than they used to...usually in pursuit of that all consuming wealth. Younger kids brought up in this environment don't have any real roots in any community and therefore don't become oriented towards contributing to any community. They to will simply move around following the dollar.

Some of the other factors which impact memberships have to do with the fire service itself.

The requirements to be a firefighter have become much more stringent...alot of time and energy must be devoted to training, certification ect. Many people just don't have the time to volunteer to do it. Also VFDs have dropped the ball overall in terms of recruitment. We will always have those who join out of family tradition and their exposure to the FD when young. But in general we haven't done enough to draw in those who may be willing but just don't know it yet. We need to develope methods and resources to reach them, and then actively pursue them.

For career depts the number of those "going after" the available jobs has soared. Competition for the few slots available is tough and very few make it overall. Also there's the mixed blessing of the advances in technology. These have allowed career dept.s to do more with less in terms of the number of firefighters while helping volunteers face their membership issues a little more effectively. (Just a note here I'm all for technology to make our job safer ect)

Of course all departments suffer from the budget axe..which directly affects the firefighters of career depts. Their liveilyhoods can be and are at times directly threatened. This also indirectly influences people's decision to join a VFD...in general no one has the time or energy to get embroiled in the fight for funds on top of their already busy lives.

Fortunately though, for both career and volunteer FDs there will always be people who just want to be firefighters no matter what it takes. The numbers may shrink but in general like the military, we end up with the best people because they WANT to be here.

Cogs

Edited August 9, 2008 by FFPCogs

[ny10570 745]

Cogs you nailed it. This isn't as simple as kids today have changed. Everything has changed. When I joined, there were 5 different parents with a child in the dept just in my company. Each of those kids brought in their friends along with guys who just always wanted to be firemen. Now all of the young guys coming in have no connection to the dept. The working class guys who made up the soul of the FD can no longer afford to live in these towns so we're losing them and their children. Recruitment wasn't an issue because people use to beat down the door to get in. Our companies have limits on how many members can be on the roster and not too long ago there were waiting lists of guys trying to get in. I don't see it as a lack of connect to the community. Helping my community was the furthest thing from my mind when me or any of my friends joined up. We wanted to be firefighters and to hang with each other. The social draw of the FD is what we've really lost.

[NWFDMedic 58]

When I joined my first fire department in 1990, I did it not because I wanted to, but because I had some sense of obligation to my family. My grandfather was a member (and in fact President) of my local volunteer department, my father was a member (VP), and both of my uncles were members. A past chief sold the family all of it's insurance, members of the department sold us our produce, fixed our cars, owned the local deli that I visited every morning, ran the Boy Scout troop, managed our Little League teams, and countless other things.

Today, just 18 short years later, kids do all of their shopping at Wal-Mart, there are very few locally owned corner stores, most of the time we get our convenient store supplies at the Qwikie-Mart, we buy our insurance online, we go to Pit Stop for our oil changes, the local Boy Scout troop is gone, and the Little League is managed by people who are more concerned with their travel teams than an outlet to let EVERYONE who wants to play have fun and learn something about teamwork. Excuse the run-on sentence, but the community is gone from the community; heck even our kids are bussed away from their local schools in the interest of some sort of racial equality (???). In the Hudson Valley, we all know about commuting parents and bedroom communities, people who work 10 hour days and spend 3-4 on a train, etc. etc.

So, what do we get in the fire department these days? No offense to the kids (younger members) who are out there doing the job, but for the most part, our younger members are the outcasts. They have very few friends and are looking for some type of identity. Some turn out to be great firefighters, but for the most part the new generation of young firefighter turns out to be more of a headache than a help. I'll take my 40 and over crew any day and twice on Sunday because I know they'll be willing to work with me as an officer, not against me. The young kids only want to do what's in it for them and they rebel when you actually ask something of them. Again, there are some great members in the 16-24 crowd, but they are the exception now and not the rule. I have no problem with kids wanting to party, get drunk or laid ... we all did it, but when it's time to be a firefighter, it's time to be a firefighter.

Edited August 10, 2008 by NWFDMedic

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Well as we sit and reflect on the yourth of today's society; I also have to sit and wonder when is it that we actually sit down and reflect on ourselves? I see all kinds of self diagnosed trends of todays younger generation, when most of you who are trying to recruit "generation why?" are generation Xer's yourselfs or netsters and maybe even still some baby boomers. How well was the fire service doing with our generation when many of us got involved. A few of you who posted on here also wouldn't have a good grasp on how it feels to try to be recruited or how the fire service appears to different generations because we were legacy's from family tradition and grew up in the firehouse. I can tell you the generation gap was fairly large in some aspects when I first joined and I can even see a difference in the generations as an instructor in just a small 5 year gap. Some of the pitfalls of recruiting and management within the fire service comes down on the inability for the fire service to adapt to changes. Society changes, generational mentality changes, but the fire service...hell no...we've been doing things for over 200 years, why should we change. Think about it... my grandfather's generation thought rock n' roll was terrible...my dad's generation had those that didn't understand heavy metal, now my generation thinks that the music my kids listen to (and some would call it "music") is terrible. But the fire service...nope...we're gonna keep beating on with the same mentality in some cases that we've been rolling with since the 1940's and 50's and before that in some cases. Good managers get things out of the people because they know how they tick and use that to get them to perform. Maybe instead of pointing out what are apparant or alledged problems with today's youth...(no offense Mike...but seeing a 14 to 17 y.o. tell me about 14 to 17 y.o. is kind of like taking parenting advice on how to handle one daughter from the other daugther whose 2 years older) perhaps the fire service needs to take a look at themselves and find what best fits for what their needs are.

[FFPCogs 863]

ALS,

As one of those who posted listing the ills of today and their affect on the fire service, let me say that you are absolutely correct in stating that it is the fire service that must change to meet the needs of TODAY.

Identifying problems is only ONE part of that, and we've done well to list them here. So now what do we do about it? Well to me as I stated we need to develope the resources to meet the needs of current and future members and potential members. What worked or drove us in the past MAY not be good for today. If material or financial gain is a neccessity for attracting and keeping members so be it..than that is what has to be done. If other programs are needed than let's figure out how to make them happen.

But tradition is also important as is the "old time" attitudes regarding work and commitment to the fire service. We may need to change our views in some respects, and offer incentives never even dreamed of 30 years ago, but to get them members should have to actually EARN them. Firefighting be it voluntary or not is not a hobby, nor is it a social club although social aspects are important too. We "older" members have a duty to help instill the traditions and work ethic we so sorely see missing in todays younger members. We won't reach them all, but with the proper attitude and (as much as it pains me to say) understanding we can produce firefighters as good or better than ourselves.

Cogs

Just my $.02

[ex-commish 490]

There was a very wll written article in this months FASNY magazine. It highlights what the brotherhood is all about and how it relates to recruitment and retention. Alot of what is highlighted in there is slowly dwindling. I encourage all to read it.

[BIGRED1 71]

well said ALS

I think that part of the issue is where we all are in the country. The metro area is a busy, go go kind of area. someone is always running off to somewhere. Got to take the son to baseball, the daughter to softball, then gotta go get groceries, then need to hit the bank, and so on. Has anyone been out west or even the south? it is a little more laid back and not everyone is in a rush to cram a million things into the day.

I will agree that kids just don't get it because parents cant discipline their kids anymore. suddenly your a bad parent for wrapping your kid on the cheek for cursing. Anyone every been hit with a wooden spoon for doing something bad when they were kids? Maybe had your mouth washed out with soap? That stuff does not exist anymore. no one wants to take care of their kids. It has been passed down from parent to child for decades. and each time they get a little farther from WE and closer to ME.

i don't really get kids anymore just like my elders most likely didn't get my generation. This problem can never be fixed. i now you should never say never but it is the hard cold truth. You can never go back. things might improve but once people have been exposed to TV, Video games, Movies, greed, there is no coming back. I wish i had a Porsche and was marrying a supermodel and had more money then anyone could ever count but in the end i know that i would be unhappy at the end of the day. Kids today don't see it that way. they want to quick buck and not have to work for it.

[FFPCogs 863]

I will agree that kids just don't get it because parents cant discipline their kids anymore. suddenly your a bad parent for wrapping your kid on the cheek for cursing. Anyone every been hit with a wooden spoon for doing something bad when they were kids? Maybe had your mouth washed out with soap? That stuff does not exist anymore. no one wants to take care of their kids. It has been passed down from parent to child for decades. and each time they get a little farther from WE and closer to ME.

The following is not directed against anyone in particular so don't take offense.

I don't know about anyone else but my kids know the taste of Ivory and Lever ...just as I did. As for a good crack in the a** ect. well we practice it when necessary..and quess what no matter what those Phd.s say...it WORKS !!

But that's just in my house.

By the way my family is in no way "well off" and my kids (11, 10, and 8) don't have alot of "things"...but even if I had billions in the bank I wouldn't just give them everything they want. So even being lower middle class my kids get what they NEED from my wife and I. We work damn hard on instilling and reinforcing those core values I mentioned earlier. For all our hard work we've been blessed with respectful, decent young people who actually give a s*** about others. It ALL starts and ends in the home folks. We can lament the society of today all we want, but we are the only ones who can change it. For my (and my wife's) part we've done ok and will continue to do what is necessary to be a part of our kids lives...maybe if others in this world would do the same some of these problems would be solved.

Cogs

[NWFDMedic 58]

The following is not directed against anyone in particular so don't take offense.

I don't know about anyone else but my kids know the taste of Ivory and Lever ...just as I did. As for a good crack in the a** ect. well we practice it when necessary..and quess what no matter what those Phd.s say...it WORKS !!

But that's just in my house.

By the way my family is in no way "well off" and my kids (11, 10, and 8) don't have alot of "things"...but even if I had billions in the bank I wouldn't just give them everything they want. So even being lower middle class my kids get what they NEED from my wife and I. We work damn hard on instilling and reinforcing those core values I mentioned earlier. For all our hard work we've been blessed with respectful, decent young people who actually give a s*** about others. It ALL starts and ends in the home folks. We can lament the society of today all we want, but we are the only ones who can change it. For my (and my wife's) part we've done ok and will continue to do what is necessary to be a part of our kids lives...maybe if others in this world would do the same some of these problems would be solved.

Cogs

And I'm sure your kids will make good firefighters one day. I agree with you too, there's nothing wrong with a little soap.

[ex-commish 490]

I will agree that kids just don't get it because parents cant discipline their kids anymore. suddenly your a bad parent for wrapping your kid on the cheek for cursing. Anyone every been hit with a wooden spoon for doing something bad when they were kids? Maybe had your mouth washed out with soap? That stuff does not exist anymore. no one wants to take care of their kids. It has been passed down from parent to child for decades. and each time they get a little farther from WE and closer to ME.

In my childhood days I experienced the rolling pin, my mothers slippers, and the belt and if I complained I got more of it. I can't say I didn't deserve it and my parents were very old fashioned when it came to discipline. I believe I could count on my hand how many times I have had to actually hit my son and it was for reasons like playing with the electrical cord or running in the street and it was a mild shot in the a ** or the back of his hand. He never did it again.

I put fear in his heart the day he was born and taught him to respect his elders. I also was vey involved with him and made 99% of all his games and still do as he approaches the Varsity football season. Working s*** work allowed me to go to his school and play ball with him and his friends during recess. This does not make me a perfect parent by any means but I am proud of how my son has turned out. He is a true athlete and also a police explorer with ambitions to go to college for Criminal Justice or Sports Journalism.

[FFPCogs 863]

NW,

Thanks and I hope they all follow the calling..even my daughters (11 and 10)...yeah I know my dinosaur mentality is showing...LOL

All,

I've never been fond of the terms "good " or "ideal" parents...there's no such thing..kids don't come with handbooks or guides to judge by. There are just parents and BAD parents. And it's not too hard to spot the bad ones.

All I know for sure is that I'm NOT a bad parent. Like all parents we do the best we can with what we have, and we can only draw from our own experiences.

Cogs

HFD good for him and kudos to you for a job well done

[Future Fireman 4]

Well as we sit and reflect on the yourth of today's society; I also have to sit and wonder when is it that we actually sit down and reflect on ourselves? I see all kinds of self diagnosed trends of todays younger generation, when most of you who are trying to recruit "generation why?" are generation Xer's yourselfs or netsters and maybe even still some baby boomers. How well was the fire service doing with our generation when many of us got involved. A few of you who posted on here also wouldn't have a good grasp on how it feels to try to be recruited or how the fire service appears to different generations because we were legacy's from family tradition and grew up in the firehouse. I can tell you the generation gap was fairly large in some aspects when I first joined and I can even see a difference in the generations as an instructor in just a small 5 year gap. Some of the pitfalls of recruiting and management within the fire service comes down on the inability for the fire service to adapt to changes. Society changes, generational mentality changes, but the fire service...hell no...we've been doing things for over 200 years, why should we change. Think about it... my grandfather's generation thought rock n' roll was terrible...my dad's generation had those that didn't understand heavy metal, now my generation thinks that the music my kids listen to (and some would call it "music") is terrible. But the fire service...nope...we're gonna keep beating on with the same mentality in some cases that we've been rolling with since the 1940's and 50's and before that in some cases. Good managers get things out of the people because they know how they tick and use that to get them to perform. Maybe instead of pointing out what are apparant or alledged problems with today's youth...(no offense Mike...but seeing a 14 to 17 y.o. tell me about 14 to 17 y.o. is kind of like taking parenting advice on how to handle one daughter from the other daugther whose 2 years older) perhaps the fire service needs to take a look at themselves and find what best fits for what their needs are.

None taken ALS! Just remember, hate the message, not the messenger!

I only said that from my own observations of kids in high school.

Mike

Edited August 10, 2008 by Future Fireman

[DaRock98 76]

Great post ALS! I think he hit the nail right on the head.

I feel a lot of people on here forget that they were once kids to and that no one is perfect. Kids will be kids and want to have fun but also need to show respect to their elders. I know I am still considered a "youngster" to someone you and thats fine but I am not one of those wise a** kids who think they know it all. I learn something new in the fire service everyday because I know how to shut up and listen to what has to be said, if I don't agree with something I politely disagree and give what my opinion is. Am I always right? NO, but I still like to give my side without being put down like some of the old timers in my department like to do. If I am wrong I take what I have been told and try to figure out what the right answer is and why. Some people don't want to take the time and explain the correct answer so how do you blame the kids for always thinking they are right when no one wants to help them figure the right answer? The world has drastically changed and adapted to the new generation but some in the fire service don't want to believe it or even think of it happening in "their" department. I think people need to realize that change will happen whether they like it or not it's something that is a must in my mind. The kids today are the future of the fire service and some may have good ideas and some might not but I feel if the older generation wants respect they have to give a little in return. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest Mfd]

There was a very well written article in this months FASNY magazine. It highlights what the brotherhood is all about and how it relates to recruitment and retention. Alot of what is highlighted in there is slowly dwindling. I encourage all to read it.

These articles hae been in several issues of the FASNY magazine "volunteer firefighter" over he past few months. Tiger Schmittendorf is the author , there is a short bio after his articles that states he has doubled his own departments membership and added 525+ new volunteers countywide. If he can do it and illustrates his techniques and thinking on a monthly basis in the magazine, why can't everyone else. According to the bio he is scheduled to speak at the FASNY legislative confrence in Albany NY on October 25 2008.

You all want ideas and solutions, let's all give this a try.

[223Truck 0]

To get more teens interested, you have to hit the malls, parks, fast food places, anyplace that sells electronics. You have to hit the schools, set up and take part in career day and show them what it is to be in the fire/ems or police service. "and bring refreshments!!! teens love to eat!" (joking)

yea because they probably got the munchies from being so high! lol

[Noula 0]

First off when I was young there was usually at least one full time parent (or grandparent) to instill and reinforce core values into their kids...thank God. Today both parents HAVE to work to simply put a meal on the table, so kids are left to their own devices and influences.

I'm sorry but I'm really sick of this being an excuse. Both of my parents worked full-time. My dad was also on call a good amount of time and my mom had kind of odd hours. They struggled to make ends meet for a really long time. But somehow they both found time to be excellent parents.

Truth is, it's not a matter of working or time. It's a matter of caring enough about something to give it the time it deserves.

[Guest MVFD334]

I'm sorry but I'm really sick of this being an excuse. Both of my parents worked full-time. My dad was also on call a good amount of time and my mom had kind of odd hours. They struggled to make ends meet for a really long time. But somehow they both found time to be excellent parents.

Truth is, it's not a matter of working or time. It's a matter of caring enough about something to give it the time it deserves.

Excellent post...

What fire depts need to do is ask themselves "what would make me want to become a member of this department?" Recruitment sucks, period. when I was in hs from 91-96 no one ever came by and spoked about the fire dept and what takes place there.. Between sports (reg season and camps) work, and school work I prob would have never would have had the time, but after I graduated maybe I would have looked into it. People say its a me me me world but I think some forget that is the attitude you need to have in order to be successful in this day. Sure every generation has its no- gooders, but face with the dilemma of doing nothing or going down to the fire house and get bossed around by elders and hear people talk nothing but crap about eachother isnt exactly something to look forward to. Sure the wealth of knowledge you gain from joining and being around all walks of life is priceless, but it can quikily be shadowed by bickering amongst members.

Times have changed like everyone has said, and the FD needs to start changing to meet it. They need to start goin to schools and into the community and educate the community and its members on what goes on. Not everyone knows the training that certain members go through, not everyone knows that you get to goto courses that not only count toward college credits, but that are paid for by dept/state. How many times to you go on ambulance calls and patients after realizing that you are volunteer, thank you not just for helping them but for explaing how volunteer fd/vac's operate.

Tradition dosent have to change, it is what has made the FD so great. Its the outdated attitudes towards non-members that needs the work.

[Remember585 815]

I'm sorry but I'm really sick of this being an excuse. Both of my parents worked full-time. My dad was also on call a good amount of time and my mom had kind of odd hours. They struggled to make ends meet for a really long time. But somehow they both found time to be excellent parents.

Truth is, it's not a matter of working or time. It's a matter of caring enough about something to give it the time it deserves.

AMEN BROTHER!

I grew up with both of my parents working. My Mom works as a Nurse, and when I was little she did 3-11 shifts. Dad was a Cop who worked around the clock. He also managed to make as many of our important things - like school stuff, sports, etc. - on top of being Fire Chief TWICE. Mom found the time to work as a nurse to join and do EMS in addition to all of our other "kid stuff."

It's not about the parents not having enough time - it's about them FINDING TIME and putting other stuff ahead of themselves for a change. I sometimes go on an EMS call for an injured child, and the parents seem ANNOYED that they now have to go to the ER with Junior because he ran thru a plate glass door. Makes me want to give them an up close and personal on how that feels to their kid....

Another thing...

We always talk in our firehouse about recruitment. The truth of the matter is that most of our GOOD members generally show up on their own, unprovoked. Those that we talk into joining usually don't pan out. Anyone else get this impression?

[ex-commish 490]

We always talk in our firehouse about recruitment. The truth of the matter is that most of our GOOD members generally show up on their own, unprovoked. Those that we talk into joining usually don't pan out. Anyone else get this impression?

You have a point there.

[FFPCogs 863]

It is heartening to see that so many people in these forums have turned out so well, contrary to my statements about having an adult presence to influence and reinforce your values. Unfortunately you are the exceptions not the rule in today's society. As was stated in my post this is but ONE factor in decline of volunteerism, and probably NOT the main one.

Generally speaking Americans have become a ME society. This is reflected in any department's membership. Numbers are down, retention is down, commitment is down, responsibility is down..why? Because we have become a society concerned only with our own wants and needs..screw the other guy. Some readers here may feel this is too harsh..but just look around, put on the TV...look at sports..it's not about the team it's about the player...it's about ME ! When people are consumed with their own self interest and self gratification there is little or no room left to help others. The wants of the individual have overtaken the NEEDS of the many.

Old traditions and institutions now are regularly under fire, dismissed by many as obslolete or ignored. Institutions like Churches, Government, schools, the military, or anywhere that requires commitment and responsibility as cornerstones of their existence. Nothing is sacred any more, and while not always "right" or "fair" and at times seemigly "evil" the ideals of these institutions are what helped build this country and it's fire service. They fostered a sense of community...on which the volunteer fire system was built and still relies.

The recruitment diliema and it's collision with tradition within the fire service is just a microcsm of society in general today. I stated in another post a parallel between ancient Rome and the U.S. today which I think is fitting here as well. Ancient Rome..the superpower of it's time, rotted and collapased from the inside out. In large part because it's citizens stopped giving of themselves to serve the State, and thought more and more only of themselves.

Sound familiar?

Cogs

[Noula 0]

We always talk in our firehouse about recruitment. The truth of the matter is that most of our GOOD members generally show up on their own, unprovoked. Those that we talk into joining usually don't pan out. Anyone else get this impression?

20% of the people do 80% of the work. I don't care how many members you have in your firehouse, that's just how it goes. You never know who the "good" members are going to be, but that's what why everyone comes in as probationary. But the more probationary members you have join, the more likely you'll have more productive firefighters.

[DaRock98 76]

20% of the people do 80% of the work. I don't care how many members you have in your firehouse, that's just how it goes. You never know who the "good" members are going to be, but that's what why everyone comes in as probationary. But the more probationary members you have join, the more likely you'll have more productive firefighters.

I have to agree with you there. Sadly I see the same group of 10-15 people who do absolutely everything they can possibly do in the firehouse while the rest slide by doing the bare minimum and can careless if anything gets done or the trucks get out. While they sit there and do nothing they b**** and complain about everyone else.

[FFPCogs 863]

20% of the people do 80% of the work. I don't care how many members you have in your firehouse, that's just how it goes. You never know who the "good" members are going to be, but that's what why everyone comes in as probationary. But the more probationary members you have join, the more likely you'll have more productive firefighters.

In any group of people there always have been and always will be those who do and those who talk and don't do a damn thing.

It's just human nature. Long ago I learned that I do because I CHOOSE to, and what I choose may not be right for everyone else. I no longer get aggravated by the seeming lack of effort of others...why bother...it won't change them or get the work done. I have also found that (generally speaking of course) those that do get their reward either personally or from their peers. By the same token I don't put too much stock in the "opinions" of those who don't contribute.

As for having more members you are on the money there, the more members you have the more productive members you will have. But herein lies the quandry..how do we get MORE members to begin with when the attitude towards volunteering isn't what it once was. To me we must actively recruit prospective members whenever and where ever we can in a coherent, organized and professional manner.

Once we can get people motivated to join, it is then the responsibilty of existing members to do everything they can to ensure we end up with as many "good" members as possible. There are times when that 20% won't alow any of the other 80% into the club, for a variety of reasons. VFDs are notorious cliche havens.

As is obvious I'm a "dinosaur" in many ways, and hold many traditional views as to what would make things "better" on and off the fireground. Unlike the proverbial dinosaur though I realize that we must change to meet the challenges of today. We have to ask ourselves some very fundamental questions to solve any recruitment issues.

1) What do we expect and require of any new member? And is there any flexibilty there?

2) What do they expect?

3) What do they hope to achieve?

4) What can we do to make that happen?

5) What will attract more people to serve?

6) What will keep members serving?

And most important of all:

What can I do to better serve my department and community????

I stand by my beliefs, and my "solutions", but I am smart enough to realize that these views are not shared by all. As a "good" and productive member I believe that like anything else compromise is the key. Tradition has it's place and when viewed properly is a great foundation on which to build...but even the oldest of traditions wasn't always one. We are building the traditions of tomorow today.

Stay Safe

Cogs