Knox Box Systems & Town Ordinances

[NoWestFF 21]

We're thinking of asking our town to pass an ordinance requiring all buildings with an automatic alarm or sprinkler system to have a Knox Box. The proposed law would extend to residential and commercial buildings.

I'd appreciate feedback from departments or FFs that have experience with the Knox Box system. Of particular interest are: (1) your experience dealing with elected officials; (2) convincing merchants and residents to comply voluntarily rather than relying on an ordinance; and (3) does your department secure the key used to access the Knox Box or is it stored on a key ring that is readily available in your apparatus?

Thanks.

[mfc2257 464]

It's been a few years, but when I ran with Gettysburg, PA most commercial businesses and non-single family residences would volunteer to participate in the Knox Box program.

The key was kept in a "mini safe" looking device on the dog box of our Quint. When we arrived at a job that required a knox box entry, we radioed the county and they would drop a series of tones that would unlock the box on our Quint and we would have access to the key. The officer on that apparatus was then responsible for the key and recording the movement of it until it was placed back into the safe and secured...

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

NoWest, Talk to Mt. Kisco FD. One of their members and Fire Marshal wrote the current village code. Remember to put in the cod that the box should be installed and a KEY for the building should be left in it. I hear that some buildings are using the loophole to get out of leaving a key in the box.

[cas2383 22]

The knox box is a win win for both sides, us and the public. By making a key available we can do our jobs more efficiently without having to wait for a keyholder. It also minimizes damage that would occur if the fd had to force entry to the building. I dont see why more municpalities havnt enacted laws or ordinances to place these on commercial buildings.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

knox boxes are another great tool for us. We have an alarm ordanice and in it it states if you have an alarm system [commercial] then you must install a knox box with keys/floor plan and a list of hazmats stored in the site. Actually we have had a number of people install them on thier private dwelling. They are good as long as the owner remembers to contact us when he changes locks/tennants etc. a few times we have run across this problem. Last year we had a n alarm at a facility that runs about 10 fa a year. Nothing showing, opend the knox box walked in and had a job. kept the fire small and k/d was quick, if we had waited, well...

as for the keys. we had some concern as for accountability. we initiallpt a key in the 2 first run engines [either end of town] but relized that there was some liability of having this key on the dash board of the rig. then the chiefs refused to carry them... so we invested in a radio controlled vault from knox. The key is inserted into the box and is held in by magnets and locked. When we need it we have the dispatchers activate the tone for that specific engine [all 4 have boxes] and it releases the key. this way there is a record of when the key is removed in the event the knox box is violated and used to illegally gain entry. This system has worked well now for 8 years.

another ket thing is to have a liason with the owners, one person to handle the "dog and pony show" do the paperwork , keep track ofbuildings that have boxes etc.

[Fed124 0]

The Town of Beford has an ordinance in place for all three departments (Bedford Hills, Bedford Village and Katonah). The ordinance was written by the chiefs in conjunction with the building inspector. All Knox keys are secured in Sentraloks in the rigs. The keys are released by 60 control upon request. Email:

Knoxbox@bedfordhillsfd.org for more information.

[TR54 239]

Town Of Greenburgh has excellent Knox Box program. Im sure you can get details from the Building dept / Town Hall .

As stated above it is a win win system!

[WAS967 97]

My question is: have there ever been any documented (or even rumored) cases of abuse of the Knox key to gain entry to a structure?

[NoWestFF 21]

Thanks for the feedback and suggested contacts.

[EJS1810 7]

When you use the Securelock with the key there can be no abuse. In Putnam County Brewster has the keys in the Chief's cars and the 3 engines. In order to access the key we (40-Control) have to send out the DTMF tomes to release the key. We can only do it on a call or if it is a test we need to make an CAD event for a drill and record the badge number of the member requesting the key.

The only other departments in Putnam that use the system are the 3 departments in the Town of Carmel. The School Districts and several municipal buildings have the knox box tied into the burglar alarm. Open the box and the burglar alarm goes off.

With either of these systems it is hard to abuse the key.

[RES20CUE 40]

Just out of curiosity- Can't the DTMF Tones be recorded and then played back via a portable radio, to unlock the box? Not sure how that works.

I know we've had a problem in the past with someone recording our siren tones and putting them back on the air to activate the sirens, just wondering if the same could be done with this box.

In Somers, every "front line fire vehicle" is equipped with a real estate style entry box, that only the 3 Chiefs know the combo for. The 3 Chiefs also carry the Knox keys in thier cars. In the unlikely event that a Chief is not on the scene, a Chief can be called by the Dispatcher to get the combo. If the combo does go out, all of the boxes get changed right away. In the last 3 years, we have never had to give out the combo. If the Chief uses his key, it is announced on the air, and the Dispatcher records it.

[EJS1810 7]

We are our own worst enemies. We get a system such as the Knox Box system then we work to circumvent it. Yes someone could tape and playback the DTMF tones but they would have tohave the proper one for each vehicle. also someone at the control center would hear them and wonder what was going on.

[Hooks057 0]

I must agree with EJS1810, anything is possible but remember a few things. The THIEF needs to first be in your rig, that means getting into your firehouse, turn on the batteries and ignition, transmit the tones for that Sentralok and snag the key which is only unlocked for 15 seconds. That is one big effort, then to go do the burglary then get the key back in the unit after the burglary is done so they don't get caught?? If you think that could happen in your department maybe you should be looking at the way new members are screened .. Now as for recording the tones at this point in time they go out fairly slow because of the Motorola board being used at 60 Control. When the new consoles go into place the speed will be adjusted and the timing will be much faster. It was not cost effective to update the current consoles at the time the Town of Bedford Departments requested this service for 60 control.

I believe the Sentralok is the most secure way of locking the master key. Someone must request it though the county and it is all logged and recorded. A real estate lock can be easily forced and opened much easier than a Sentralok can be defeated.

The Knox program has been a great success in the Town of Bedford (Bedford Hills FD, Katonah FD, Bedford FD). The three departments share the same key code. This is very helpful when relocating to another station in town. There are 26 Sentralok units installed in fire department vehicles through out the Town of Bedford alone. Our ordinance is as follows:

All commercial building must have a box. Any residence that has more that three false alarms in a calendar year must have a box. Any electric driveway gate must have a Knox Key Switch for fire department access. Also any swinging gate or fence impeding access to a property must have a Knox Padlock. We also have Knox FDC Caps for Fire Department Connections. The Town Board was VERY supportive when it came time to vote on the ordinance. You can check out our site for more information http://www.bedfordhillsfd.org/content/knox/ .

Oh and by the way the Cops don't have a key either

[ja3kfd 34]

I agree with Hooks057,anything is possible,but I was on the group that helped get this done,a lot of thought went into this ,Hooks did a Major part of all this,we got ordinances from Neighboring towns as well as some from across the country took all the best parts out and had the ordinance drafted.Hooks did one heck of a job and I feel and still feel it is a great 3 dept. effort that got it drafted and done. Thanks For the great work and it really was a great start to all 3 Town of Bedford FDs getting things done together.

And yes that was a topic of discussion in the onset of PD not having one. (keys)