Seat Belts are NOT Optional

[Oswegowind 17]

on another note, where are the scott pack holders for the jump seats if any scott packs are even in the cab? cant really tell from the shots

This is actually a good idea so that they are wearing their seatbelts on the way to the job and not donning their gear until they get on scene...Safety!

MOD NOTE: Seat belt discussion that follows moved from here

jack

Edited August 4, 2008 by jack10562

[x129K 1,393]

Yes. I am going to worry about my seatbelt....I DONT need to worry about my pack, it will still be there in it's holder when we get there, it will only take me a few seconds to throw it on on my way out.......and my s*** is always together.

I have a great wife and 2 beautiful kids that RELY on me to be there, be able to work, and take care of them. Why would I risk all of that by not buckling up in a firetruck?

Check your prioirties Bro....

[x129K 1,393]

We were taking SCBA out from side compartments YEARS beofre it was cool to have them in the seats....it's no trouble....

And if someone is HANGING out a window, just ladder up and get them...hell, they've done most of the work for you!

[Guest]

then hey what do i know im workin in the new school way of things. just think its quicker and easier to have most of ur ppe with you in the cab.

[fire55 3]

personally i think the NFPA safety regulations are questionable. if ur on ur way to a confirmed structure fire u really think your gonna put ur helmet in a holder, or worry about your seat belt. i know seatbelts save lives but c'mon u have to worry about that when u have to put ur pack on for a job and get all your sh*t together, then also worry about getting ur helmet out of its holster when you get there.

Heres a good video about seatbelts. SEAT BELT VIDEO FOR FIREFIGHTERS:

Have you seen this? Check out this excellent video from Denver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHzrEon9Js

Came from firefighterclosecalls.com.. It is a very informotive website and suggest you might check it out. Its a good site to learn alot from. Especially for young firefighters who think they know it all..

[CLM92982 26]

whoa i never said i knew it all, idk sh*t, no one does and no one ever will. training never stops. and yes i have seen the site and the video. im not sayin i dont wear my seat belt. i wear it while responding in my POV. and in the apparatus on the way back to quarters. personally i dont think it is needed while responding to a fire. there is way too much sh*t goin on in a persons head to remember to take off a seatbelt when u get there, and if youforget your seatbelt is on and try to put on a scott while wearing ur seatbelt u get all messed up. ive seen it done before, but thats just how i do it.

Take your own advice and continue training. With some practice, you'll be able to don your SCBA while properly secured. For your own sake and for the sake of the members you're riding with, buckle up.

[Danger 160]

Oh man, that is cringeworthy. 18-20 no surprise. Put your damn seatbelt on. If it seriously takes you that long to unbuckle the belt and throw the pack on, then you need to sit in your firehouse all day and practice donning til you get it.

You know, I have sat through probably 18 hours this year alone of OSHA, conferences, conventions etc. of people talking about seatbelts. And I started to go nuts hearing about it so much, I'm thinking it's overkill, who really in this age doesn't get it. Now I know.

Also, if going to a fire gets you that excited that you start throwing away safety regulations, then I don't want you on my crew.

Wow.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Danger

[jack10562 414]

Regarding wearing a seat belt in the apparatus while responding to an alarm and trying to get one's gear on...

It makes absolutely no difference if it's a confirmed structure fire, or whatever.

There is no excuse for NOT wearing a seat belt in a moving vehicle.

What IS a big deal, if the rig crashes and you don't have your seat belt secured, you can be killed.

25% of FF LODD deaths occur while responding to calls and returning to quarters. Many of these deaths are PREVENTABLE.

Take a minute and watch the video linked below. Truck Rollover Video: Seat Belt vs. No Seat Belt.

One occupant has a seat belt, the other does not.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/images/volvo-crash-large.wmv

[ex-commish 490]

whoa i never said i knew it all, idk sh*t, no one does and no one ever will. training never stops. and yes i have seen the site and the video. im not sayin i dont wear my seat belt. i wear it while responding in my POV. and in the apparatus on the way back to quarters. personally i dont think it is needed while responding to a fire. there is way too much sh*t goin on in a persons head to remember to take off a seatbelt when u get there, and if youforget your seatbelt is on and try to put on a scott while wearing ur seatbelt u get all messed up. ive seen it done before, but thats just how i do it.

If you are that excited when you are responding to a fire than maybe it is time for some re-training.

As far as our Quint...I go back and forth on the Quint concept but like anything else we will work with it.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If you are that excited when you are responding to a fire than maybe it is time for some re-training.

As far as our Quint...I go back and forth on the Quint concept but like anything else we will work with it.

If you aren't excited going to a fire there's probably something wrong with you. Its how you act when you're excited that shows your training and experience.

[Guest feraldan]

If you aren't excited going to a fire there's probably something wrong with you. Its how you act when you're excited that shows your training and experience.

Very well said, but I think he was referring to getting so excited that you forget how to use something as simple as a seatbelt. Getting that amped is dangerous.

[ex-commish 490]

If you aren't excited going to a fire there's probably something wrong with you. Its how you act when you're excited that shows your training and experience.

Excited to what degree? To a point where tunnel vision sets in? Where you forget the ABC's of safety? No I don't get excited. My heart may race a bit but in the end I want to go home to my wife and son the same way I came and anyone that has ever taken any classes I have taught including people in my own department when I did training there I always preached slow down and tbink about what you are doing.

If this equates that there is something wrong with me than I appreciate your obversation and welcome any furthur comments.

[ex-commish 490]

Very well said, but I think he was referring to getting so excited that you forget how to use something as simple as a seatbelt. Getting that amped is dangerous.

You are correct. I have seen people get "amped" including some officers who make a simple MVA sound like a plane crash and it creates a climate of confusion and panic.

[Guest]

i know this topic is focused on the FD, you FF's must also remember to wear your seatbelt if you are ever requested to assist ems in the back of the ambulance.

i know certain circumstances wearing a seatbelt in the back of an ambulance is not feasible (ie: cpr), in those cases make sure you tell the driver to drive slowly.

[x129K 1,393]

i wear it while responding in my POV. and in the apparatus on the way back to quarters. personally i dont think it is needed while responding to a fire

So you don't wear it during the phase of the response that it is MOST likely to be needed - responding Code 3? Doesn't the chaueffer have "alot of s*** going through his head"? What if he's all bugged up too and drives like an idiot? Responding in an apparatus, while someone I can not control, is driving is THE MOST important time for me!

there is way too much sh*t goin on in a persons head to remember to take off a seatbelt when u get there,

You're joking me right? it's easy...if you go to get up and CAN'T...unbuckle the seatbelt! That should cure the problem in 1-2 seconds...

I REALLY do not understand your logic, or lack thereof....

[ajsbear 11]

I always remind everyone on my rig when I am driving to or from any alarm no matter what it is. Our new engine has a seat belt alarm. If you weigh 60 lbs. it goes off, who among us doesn't Put your PPE on in quarters. It should not take long. If it does, pracitce. On the scene, release the seatbelt, slip your arms in the airpac and get out. You can buckle the pack when your out. Then get your tool. While I consider myself a safe driver it's the other nut on the road. You don't know what they are going to do and how they will react to the siren and air horn so be safe, buckle it or get off my rig.

[Guest]

buckle it or get off my rig.

i like that quote, hope you don't mind if i use it.

[lad45der 78]

i like that quote, hope you don't mind if i use it.

Guys get used to wearing the seat belts apparatus made starting in 2009 will have a built in device similar to the black box concept. It will tell investigators if at the time of the crash if each firefighter was wearing the seat belt. Now we all know what happens when the blame game starts.. insurance benifits may be in question if it is proven that an injury was the result of no belts at the time . Seat belts have improved being a different color now and the receivers are a lot longer to accomidate all the "stuff" we have around the waist bunker pants/Harness, radio, bulky pockets etc. In my department the officer and or the driver will not move the apparatus untill everbody is belted. I was like everbody else when this was enforced grunting and bitchin but after a few calls it was second nature. A metro fire dept just up I-95 was involved in a truck vs passenger car accident with civillan fatility. NO firefighters were serousily injured during the incident because of the belts.

Also no helmets will be worn in the apparatus starting 2009??.

I will guess in the future the SCBA will also be removed from the cab.

[ajsbear 11]

i like that quote, hope you don't mind if i use it.

Go right ahead, I hae no copyright.

[firecapt32 282]

Someone said it earlier in the post 25% of firefighter deaths occur during responding to and from alarms. Waring seatbelts just might bring those stats down. The life you save may be yours.

Drivers of apparatus if you allow some one to ride without seatbelts it may be you named inthe law litigation.

Chiefs if you do not have a seat belt policy--you better get one written in a hurry or your name will be added too.

As for helmets while responding--- it is a major concern that sudden stops and bumps in the roads will create injuries to personnel riding. Drivers have enough to worry about.

As we say in-- Intro to Fire officer and Fire Officer 1 and Incident Safety Officer courses---we want you to get there--get there safely--do your job---do it right--and return home to your love ones safely.

be safe out there - it only takes a few seconds to be safe--it forever when you are dead.

It cannot be said enough

Edited August 4, 2008 by firecapt32

[ex-commish 490]

Someone said it earlier in the post 25% of firefighter deaths occur during responding to and from alarms. Waring seatbelts just might bring those stats down. The life you save may be yours.

Drivers of apparatus if you allow some one to ride without seatbelts it may be you named inthe law litigation.

Chiefs if you do not have a seat belt policy--you better get one written in a hurry or your name will be added too.

As for helmets while responding--- it is a major concern that sudden stops and bumps in the roads will create injuries to personnel riding. Drivers have enough to worry about.

As we say in-- Intro to Fire officer and Fire Officer 1 and Incident Safety Officer courses---we want you to get there--get there safely--do your job---do it right--and return home to your love ones safely.

be safe out there - it only takes a few seconds to be safe--it forever when you are dead.

It cannot be said enough

Well said Capt.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Someone said it earlier in the post 25% of firefighter deaths occur during responding to and from alarms. Waring seatbelts just might bring those stats down. The life you save may be yours.

Drivers of apparatus if you allow some one to ride without seatbelts it may be you named inthe law litigation.

Chiefs if you do not have a seat belt policy--you better get one written in a hurry or your name will be added too.

OK, I'm not going to argue the issue of seatbelts in the back of a rig persay, but here's a bit of information regarding the statistics that are being quoted. While it is true that 25% of FF deaths occur during responding to and from alarms, less than 10% of that 25% actually occur while responding or returning in an apparatus. The majority of those deaths occur in personal vehicles. While no death is a good thing (obviously), the numbers are not nearly as alarming as one might like to portray.

Second, the concept that drivers of apparatus would be subject to litigation is absolutely absurd. In New York State, there is no law for back seat passengers requiring them to wear safety belts of any kind. If there is no department policy regarding safety belts and the drivers' responsibility to make sure they are worn, then there is no grounds for litigation against the driver. Stop trying to scare people.

Finally, while chiefs or districts may be subject to litigation, the possibility of the litigation actually sticking is somewhere between slim and none. In fact, a chief or district would be more likely to be subject to litigation if there was a written policy that was not followed and something happened.

[EFFDCO4 0]

Safety has been and will continue to be the primary concern behind all firefighting evolutions, whether it be driving, riding, searching, interior, exterior, whatever...... at least that's the way it is in my district. With that said, seatbelts are a must by all riding on the apparatus to and from calls.

As for donning the SCBA, SCOTT has a little thing on the bracket (kind of a seat belt) that prevents the pack from dislodging on its own. This strap is intended to buckle the bottle and harness in place behind its shouldner straps. The idea is, when you get into your seat, you should already be suited up with bunkers and your coat, then just wrap your arms under the shoulder straps of the pack and then buckle your seat belt. Now you can concentrate on donning the rest of your gear on the way to the call. It sounds confusing, but it really works, if done properly. Remember, the yellow strap must secure the SCBA in place behind the shoulder straps, leaving them available for you to begin the donning process as soon as you get in the truck.

[NWFDMedic 58]

As for donning the SCBA, SCOTT has a little thing on the bracket (kind of a seat belt) that prevents the pack from dislodging on its own. This strap is intended to buckle the bottle and harness in place behind its shouldner straps. The idea is, when you get into your seat, you should already be suited up with bunkers and your coat, then just wrap your arms under the shoulder straps of the pack and then buckle your seat belt. Now you can concentrate on donning the rest of your gear on the way to the call. It sounds confusing, but it really works, if done properly. Remember, the yellow strap must secure the SCBA in place behind the shoulder straps, leaving them available for you to begin the donning process as soon as you get in the truck.

Like I said in my last post, I will neither support nor speak against the use of seat belts in the back of the apparatus, I'm simply stating facts. I don't like when people like the previous poster create facts or scare tactics to make you think wearing a safety belt is that critical. If I get killed in the back of the truck because I'm not wearing a safety belt, however, my parents wouldn't sue the fire district because I was the idiot not wearing the belt. At work, we have a policy, so I have to do what they say.

The whole SCBA thing is a convenient excuse people like to use for not wearing safety belts. As a larger person (nicely put), in today's apparatus, I have a hard time trying to don an SCBA in the front seat, not to mention my district is the size of a postage stamp and I have to call out to two bases and talk to whoever else is trying to give me information (that I usually don't care about ... sorry chief). I usually put my pack around one shoulder, it comes with me when I get off the truck and it takes about 5 seconds to don outside. Coincidentally, that 5 seconds also gives me time to relax, finish up my size up that I started as I approached the scene, and then go to work without the huge adrenalin rush of jumping off the truck.

As far as those yellow straps are concerned, I hope you have more luck with them in Wiccopee than I do. If there's one thing that I hate about checking packs on our new rescue, it's those brackets.

[firecapt32 282]

not worth arguing over ware your seat belts.10% 15% 25% still a lot and still too many

Edited August 5, 2008 by firecapt32

[NWFDMedic 58]

not worth arguing over ware your seat belts.10% 15% 25% still a lot and still too many

Well, when you consider it's less than 10% of 25%, you're talking less than 2.5% of the total LODD that occur responding or returning on an apparatus. Less than 2.5% is a lot less than 25%. I'm not a fan of scare tactics and that's what your entire post was.

[HCFRFF 0]

We practice getting our SCBA's on while belted in. Its really not that hard. Just something to practice at. To be honest i hate wearing my seatbelt but i always do!

Edited August 5, 2008 by HCFRFF

[ex-commish 490]

OK, I'm not going to argue the issue of seatbelts in the back of a rig persay, but here's a bit of information regarding the statistics that are being quoted. While it is true that 25% of FF deaths occur during responding to and from alarms, less than 10% of that 25% actually occur while responding or returning in an apparatus. The majority of those deaths occur in personal vehicles. While no death is a good thing (obviously), the numbers are not nearly as alarming as one might like to portray.

Second, the concept that drivers of apparatus would be subject to litigation is absolutely absurd. In New York State, there is no law for back seat passengers requiring them to wear safety belts of any kind. If there is no department policy regarding safety belts and the drivers' responsibility to make sure they are worn, then there is no grounds for litigation against the driver. Stop trying to scare people.

Finally, while chiefs or districts may be subject to litigation, the possibility of the litigation actually sticking is somewhere between slim and none. In fact, a chief or district would be more likely to be subject to litigation if there was a written policy that was not followed and something happened.

I dont believe anyone is trying to scare people. Statistics are just that..statistics. We are in the preservation of life business, including ours and if wearing seatbelts has a minimal effect on the reduction of FF LODDS than it is worth it.

I am no lawyer but I believe chief's and districts can be held liable wether there is written policy or not. I recall a case in upstate NY where a firefighter was killed and two others severly injured during a live burn. The result was the chief did time in jail and also faced ( or is facing) civil suits because there is a standard out there that regulates live burns that were not followed. There are also standards out there that say wear seatbelts. Not having a written policy is no defense.

[NWFDMedic 58]

I am no lawyer but I believe chief's and districts can be held liable wether there is written policy or not. I recall a case in upstate NY where a firefighter was killed and two others severly injured during a live burn. The result was the chief did time in jail and also faced ( or is facing) civil suits because there is a standard out there that regulates live burns that were not followed. There are also standards out there that say wear seatbelts. Not having a written policy is no defense.

The difference in that situation is that the Chief was the proximate cause of the problem. If there's a seat belt in the truck and you are told that you should wear it (which we all are told in OSHA class) and you choose not to, YOU are the proximate cause of whatever happens to you. I'm sure there will be an attempt at civil litigation, but unless they can prove that the Chief willfully promoted not wearing seat belts, then the litigation will be DOA.

Sorry, I'm just sick of people putting hammers over people's heads with fear of litigation. Call me stupid, but I don't wear my seat belt in my car either. I was in an accident when I was 20 years old that would have killed me if I was wearing my seat belt. If I end up ejected and dead, that's my own dumb fault. If I end up getting a ticket, I'll be mad, but again, it's my own dumb fault. Seat belt laws and helmet laws drive me nuts because they are a victimless crime (unless you consider the financial burden). You can't hurt someone else by not wearing your seat belt or helmet. The only place I wear it is in the ambulance at work because I'm required to by company policy (coincidentally not by state law).

Edited August 5, 2008 by NWFDMedic

[ajsbear 11]

The difference in that situation is that the Chief was the proximate cause of the problem. If there's a seat belt in the truck and you are told that you should wear it (which we all are told in OSHA class) and you choose not to, YOU are the proximate cause of whatever happens to you. I'm sure there will be an attempt at civil litigation, but unless they can prove that the Chief willfully promoted not wearing seat belts, then the litigation will be DOA.

Sorry, I'm just sick of people putting hammers over people's heads with fear of litigation. Call me stupid, but I don't wear my seat belt in my car either. I was in an accident when I was 20 years old that would have killed me if I was wearing my seat belt. If I end up ejected and dead, that's my own dumb fault. If I end up getting a ticket, I'll be mad, but again, it's my own dumb fault. Seat belt laws and helmet laws drive me nuts because they are a victimless crime (unless you consider the financial burden). You can't hurt someone else by not wearing your seat belt or helmet. The only place I wear it is in the ambulance at work because I'm required to by company policy (coincidentally not by state law).

Get ejected from your car onto the road, another car trys to avoid hitting you and gets into an accident. Well you now caused it. A stretch? Yep but it can happen. We've all seen the video's of the high speed crashes on youtube where the victim gets hit by another car not in the original incident.